greylord

Red Dead Redemption? Not sure that was released on both consoles though, but definitely not on PC. It was on both consoles.

Don't really want to go listing them all... I'll start listing, but don't really want to write down that many games... Resonance of Fate Nier (production values probably AAA, though sales wise...maybe not) Final Fantasy XIII Actually I should say almost any Japanese made game that was cross console normally doesn't cross over to PC But when talking about more western games...it becomes a lot harder... Civilization Revolution was a mid tier really, and PC has gotten several Civ games in relation...but CivRev probably wouldn't count as AAA. Marvel Ultimate alliance Harder to find sports titles like Madden on PC lately, always the TRUE BIG games of EA in my opinion, or at least a major mainstay., doesn't mean they aren't there, but I can't seem to locate recent Madden on PC. When you discuss games from Europe, but not specifically Western Europe, it becomes even harder to find an AAA game that was released cross platform, but not ported over to PC. So East to East...in summary, TONS of AAA games from Japan and Asian companies that are cross platform, but not to PC. In the US/UK and somewhat France realm...some major titles, more in line with the sports genre, and with Eastern Releases (which I don't see tons of notice on this forum anyways, ironically for those calling themselves PC gamers as that may be where the PC gaming is biggest if you don't count MMO's and Blizzard games), it's excessively hard to find AAA releases that are ported to both consoles but NOT to the PC.

Evidently he likes, and wants, more of the "AAA" style games. At least, ones that are exclusive to the PC. Close. I'd like games developed specifically for the PC with more variety, but with higher values than many of the smaller game releases that are out these days. Much as I love the games by paradox who are one of the guys with bigger releases that I play...they are still niche and many times their releases show it. So, yes...and no. In a way, I'd like to see it where there was as much variety as the 90s and early 2000s, but with the graphics and gaming advances of the bigger games today. I think there has been so much worry about piracy and DRM that instead of focusing on what is good for PC gaming, instead they've killed it in that regard. Don't worry, if the analysts are correct, MS is about to bring Console gaming to that realm as well with their next iteration, which is one reason some are concerned that the downward trend in console sales is not going to be saved and pushed up by the next release of consoles...but rather a nail in the coffin for a dying video game industry (yes, there are those who say Console games are dying at this point). Of course, if Console games really do die, than a successful Kickstarter may be the best bet for a videogame future. The freedom of the 90s and the innovation of those days, but with bigger budgets to be able to make games that are hopefully more like what I'd be looking for. Kickstarter has it's own perils though, and that actually concerns me as no one seems to be addressing the what ifs.

That's could be a good summation...actually.

Something that is kind of funny. I visit Asia occasionally. It used to be in some portions of Asia (I suppose Eastern Europe counts as well, but Eastern Europe still has the PC games) that they'd have all sorts of pirated PC games all over the place. Console games were actually not seen that much. Over the past ten years however, PC games have largely disappeared from those markets (you can still get whatever PC game you want in pirated form...but normally it's upon request rather than on the floor), though they still have a shelf or two, but the major floor space is taken up by Console games. In fact, in some areas it's practically impossible to find a legit Console game for sale, all they sell are the pirated versions. When I see that I actually can admit Piracy IS a major problem...but not so much in the West, but in the East. IF the Game makers could tap into that market, they probably could literally double if not triple their profits...that is if the same people would buy their games (I mean, you could buy ME3 for $.50 to $1 USD). I buy my games in the West and legit (besides the fact that I want to support those who made the game, you also never know what else is on those disks...viruses and Trojans abound I bet) but in certain areas of the world, piracy really is killing any money they may actually make. Those people don't go out and buy a legit copy after buying a pirated hardcopy. Heck...I think MS was trying to sell legit copies of Windows in China for $3 simply so they could sell Windows as opposed to the hacked/almost free copies that were already being sold all over the place! The problem is that the producers are focusing on the West, probably because they don't have enough government cooperation to enforce their copyrights in the East. Which means that now that it's not as prevalent in the West to get a pirated copy (though still not as hard, but it's not as easy as a simple stroll to the store for most in the West like it is in some areas in the East) there has to be other ways to try to convince people to buy new releases. In the West I think Piracy actually generates sales (in regards to movies and games) and I agree completely with you. In some areas of the East though, it's a different ballpark altogether.

The reason is most of the rest of the world recognizes it, so it is actually pretty fascinating to see how people who hid their heads in the sand react to this. It's one of those things where you simply can't believe people actually believe that it is not dead (as per the ideas that the press uses as in...Wii-U may be dead, it sold 3.?? million copies since release, but that with indications of current sales, it still may be dead, or that the PS Vita may be dead...that idea). So in truth, for this small group, I really can't wrap my head around the idea that people consider the type of PC gaming that we are all here about...really disagree with the rest of the world. PC gaming used to mean titles such as what came out on the PS3, Xbox 360 and such...not MMORPGs and not the tablets. It's one of rather, morbid disbelief that people would hide their heads so far into the sand that they'd ignore the difficulties. That presents the problem that when ignored, normally that's a bad sign that things will be getting worse instead of better. If you count MMORPG's, sure, it's a rosy picture, and if you include Tablet sales, things really pick up...but without them, your looking at a niche industry at this point. The few BIG sellers sell big, but there are far fewer of them, meaning that the pie is split in fewer slices....and the overall picture is not so rosy. People mention download sales, but as the article I posted above, download sales are not the domain of PC gaming only, they are more common then many may believe in regards to consoles, and with tablets and smart phones, that's the main way of purchasing. IF you use that as an excuse of PC's having a hidden amount they make...LOL Though it IS true. The big question is how much Steam makes per year. They don't have any place they divulge that amount that I know of. I don't think it could be over 20 Billion, but who knows, maybe it is. People point to consoles as being greater than PC sales...but consoles actually didn't get to the numbers you see now until PC gaming started getting large as well. According to Wikipedia...Nintendo only sold 61.9 million, the Super Nintendo only sold 40 million, and the Sega Genesis only sold 40 million. Compared to the PS2 which sold 155 million, the Nintendo DS which sold 153 million, and the Sony Playstation which sold 102 million...is it any wonder some are thinking consoles are dying? Afterall, The Wii-U has sold less then 4 million, the PS3 has only sold around 77 million and the Xbox 360 has only sold around 77 million. If they think Consoles are dying...what exactly would you interpret PC gaming as...if Console games which as far as I still know are outselling and are FAR more popular than PC games are considered dying at the moment and everyone is looking to see if it can be saved by the next Console generation... Why exactly would you state an industry with FAR less sales and profits as...NOT dying or dead??? But hey...why use logic or any approaches to this... It's going to be tossed out by you guys anyways...which is a good question why I keep in this thread...probably because unlike the rest of the world, you guys have a different idea of what dying or dead is in relation to games and computers? It fascinates me that the very people and their supporters that could resurrect PC gaming are so disconnected that they would ignore the problem until something is really and truly dead. On the otherhand, I would relate it more to a stage prior to the PC gaming explosion perhaps in relation to the PC gaming...approaching a period of maybe the Early 90s and late 80s (which I have stated repeatedly), which may not be a bad thing, depending on what occurs with Kickstarter. Of course before we can really explore how that may "save" PC gaming, you'd have to look at it from the perspective that relative to what it was, PC gaming IS dead...at least unless you love MMORPG's and Tablets... The problem I see with Kickstarter is that though it could be a herald to a second renaissance in PC gaming, it could also be the deathknell. Say a few people get the Kickstarter money, and then run...that creates a lot less support for the idea...and that has me worried because I haven't heard of a lot of viable solutions to that problem if it became a regular occurrence. Such a thing happening on a regular basis could kill an early 90's type renaissance of gaming in the bud. (Why do I say 90s, because that's when you could really trace PC gaming to getting the foundations of the more popular gaming in the late 90s, but with far more freedom. instead of the large corps dominating, you had a lot of smaller companies that could put out a whole slew of ideas with different approaches to gaming which created a lot of the foundations on which all gaming today is based upon). AS far as me not being a major PC gamer...maybe you're right. Afterall, I tend to only do Indies on PC anymore. The last PC games that were even over the 100,000 mark that I probably bought would be DSIII, MSIII, and...Torchlight 2 (and it's a guess on my part that TL2 even sold over 100K...not even sure that counts). Two of those I already had on a console as well though, so really only one what may have been a minor to medium PC release. Everything else these days are the Indies. Of course, if you want niche gaming...I would fall more into the niche of the niche playing more Indies than major releases on the PC gaming...but the small time releases where the game creators are struggling to get by (and some even have other jobs other then PC game making) seems to be more of the scene these days for me than the Major releases...because as I said...almost any Major release on the PC is a poor port of a game created for one of the consoles. AT least smaller games are made with PC gamers in mind. But then...when something is a niche, it's not "alive" in relation to what the press or world considers as a "living" system...per se.

What they don't realize is the same thing that others have not realized. What happens at Gamestop is that MANY buy a new game and then trade it in for credit. They then turn around and buy another NEW game with that credit. But who cares...100% of 30% of what you used to make is still... Errr...less than 48.8% of 100% of what you make now. (or was that 48.7%?).

Hmm interesting, so if they wait until after 8 to arrest him, then what? OR is it going to be a daily thing, so if he sleeps in one daaaaay..... Not so certain that if he gets arrested and releases such info that it will actually help him in the long run...probably be more of a condemnation on him with a longer sentence then anything else I'd think... But hey...it should prove interesting.

That doesn't relate to the sales, revenue, or profits of the PC as a platform. The consoles have always been the largest install base by far. No one was throwing money at PC titles in the 90's or even the early 00's. You seem to think their was some mythical era of PC gaming, but the truth is that PC gaming has only grown. "AAA" and massive budgets are a thing that have grown out of consoles. If you consider the PC to be a success in the past, it's a success now. Of course they're more profitable, consoles combined have many more potential customers than the PC. As was the case with the PS2 vs the GameCube and Xbox, that system had far more "AAA" titles, has far more exclusives, so I guess you declared Xbox and Nintendo "dead" even though Xbox game releases, sales, and profits grew. My point is that your definition of "dead" is stupid and you know this, and you're trolling. Actually, if you've read other comments I've made, there are real thoughts that the consoles may be dying. In fact, some consoles which are currently considered dead, have more titles that may possibly qualify for the AAA range made for them than the PC's....even though they are considered dead. I'm not certain what you are saying in the last comment, but no, I'm not trolling, I'm stating what I really believe has happened in the industry currently, and thus far no one really has shown it to be different. The closest was the Alan's comment in regards to the 20 Billion, but that was counting what I didn't count, which was the MMORPG's. NOW, if you consider MMORPG the PC gaming in the traditional sense (which I don't, BUT if you do) than in truth, the PC market may actually have a larger install base moneywise than consoles, especially when you count in Asia. PC gaming as I know it, however, meaning quality AAA games that we enjoy and love with SP and/or MP elements is rather dead at the moment. The entire period of PC gaming from the late 90s died off. IT IS having a renaissance ala the late 80s early 90s, which by my own admission, if you feel that was the truly living age of the PC, then with indies and Kickstarter, there's a chance that that type of PC gaming may actually come to fruition again and could be reviving after a LONG period of submission by the AAA types banging it down with the attempts to appease the population in general rather then the hardcore gaming crowd. However, even then, I think the largest installed base right now is NOT consoles, but is the Smart phone and tablet market. After that, IF you count it as PC gaming...would probably be the facebook and those types of crowds and then the MMORPGs most likely. I consider the MMORPG and PC gaming different types of gaming however, one being the more traditional type of PC game, while the other is the social gaming aspect. It's similar to how I don't count the Korean or Asian MMORPG and their console MMORPG's either into my ideas of money and what's being taken in.

It sounds like PC gaming is "dead" because it doesn't make the games that you want. Unfortunate for you, but I'm still very happy with my PC gaming hobby. No, I'm not saying PC gamig is dead because it doesn't make the games I want. I actually am considered a hardcore PC gamer relatively to others. Of course the ONLY PC gaming they tend to do will be either facebook games (which I don't count) or MMORPGs. People here don't seem to consider facebook games really as PC gaming. World of Warcraft in and of itself brought in how much again? As I said, you have to discount the MMORPG's in my book as what I would consider PC gaming per se, at least how we've understood it in the past. World of Warcraft can bring in a quarter to a third of that 20 billion you just listed in and of itself. (and now that I read the article and indeed the MMORPG's ARE counted in that number...it would mean that in fact PC gaming made a LOT less then 20 Billion or whatever you are counting when you don't include MMORPG's in that number. Your talking when you take away the WoW, Eve, and perhaps the only MMORPG's that may be able to compete with WoW which are in Asian markets, along with ToR, you actually have a pretty LOW amount made by the non-MMORPG games). However, yes, you are right, long go it was a 12 to 20 billion dollar industry, WITHOUT MMORPG's, Facebook games, and tablet games accounting for income. Of course you did just state that PC games made more in 2012 than Console games...Consoles sold around 4 billion and retail games sold about 9 to 11 billion. So either you're counting MMORPG numbers in that amount...or...you are actually stating PC game sales were larger than console sales? No offense, but please forgive me while I scoff at that idea, because if that were true, every major publisher would be designing for PC rather than consoles, tablets, and all the other facets out there. (another edit, reading the article it sounds as indeed, the amounts included ARE with MMORPG sales. so that accounts right there for that "PC gaming" you wish to include). Which...if you hadn't noticed...they aren't. PS: In regards to the tomb raider comment you made...I was mentioned the fact that while people were basing things off of a idea that only PC games had downloads and that equaled all things out, that in truth PC and Steam are NOT the only guys doing the game download thing these days...PS3 has a rather vibrant market in dlc and downloadable games these days. Just ask Capcom... Who likes to bleed us dry...

I can live with that answer. I have to say I have high hopes for Kickstarter. It used to be in the late 80s and 90s because it was cheaper and easier to make PC games and the market was more open, you saw more games (as interplay's banner slogan use to say) for gamers by gamers. Indie gaming companies have tried to make that comeback, but it's still not totally with the games that I love. I'm hoping Kickstarter can have slightly larger teams to make more of the types of games I want, and with them trying to appeal to gamers to back them...will go back to that idea of for gamers by gamers.

Fantastic argument you have there "I could say, but since you wont be able to guess what I would say if I said it, I don't need to say it and will just say that I know something you don't" But maybe there is a reason you don't want to name them? Maybe its something too embarassing to post... *wanders off to search the internet* Didn't find a good candidate. My search-fu failed me because of the language barrier. There seem to be some strange japanese PC only publishers you could be refering to? But I'll bite: Exclusive PC publishers... NCSoft, Paradox, Kalypso, PerfectWorld. I take it Bohemia Interactive is too small? Meridian4 has 89 titles in their catalogue on PC and 5 on mobile. Focus Home Interactive has mostly PC games with only a few that allow for console also getting a consol version. 1C Company has eight upcomming PC titles and one of them will also be released to XBOX360. Does PopCap release on console? But you are basically only interested in AAA titles, so many PC exclusives don't count. Does the Total War series count as AAA even though its not MMOs? Yes, actually, Total War counts as an AAA title...thanks I had actually forgotten about that one. The publisher you are looking at do a LOT of PC games that are more kid based and such. Another does educational games and software and due to probably libraries and schools buying their games make a tidy sum, but then again...triple A as far as what we would consider Triple A, probably not. Gamer's Games like what I'm also looking at...probably not, so games we probably wouldn't want to play or even try to play.

No, because the big three all had a large number of AAA titles designed for them, while the PC over the past two years...really compared to the others, is basically dead except for the MMORPG and Blizzard releases as far as AAA titles go. All it gets are ports. The others get ports, but also have a LOT of games specifically designed for them. Xbox 360 is included as I said as I think a majority of ports probably are designed with that system in mind to begin with which is why it's harder to find exclusives for the Xbox 360 than it is for the PS3 or Wii. Heck, I think even the VITA may have more AAA exclusives than the PC has for it, and they already say the Vita is a dead system!!!! Even the Wii-U which people are wondering whether it's DOA at this point or not has more AAA titles in development for it currently than the PC from what I can tell...though with Kickstarter I'd say the PC has more gamer friendly exclusives being created even if they may not fall into the AAA range.

Naw, I still will hold with the amounts made (PC games were compared to Porn for all intents and purposes for sales numbers...which may not be complimentary in the connection, but the numbers while not as big as Hollywood were literally Billions upon Billions from what I can tell). Before I forget, I know tomb raider was sold at retail...but PS3 games (probably Xbox games as well) are ALSO sold via download like Steam these days also. ON PSN you can buy a LOT of the games you can buy at retail also. That's one of the reasons why Journey probably got bigger and finally got the hardcopy release (guessing at this though) was due to online sales. But since no one really wants to think about the numbers except to try to simply say...well...you find that hard to believe...I thought something more physical...something that is there in your face when you look at it and can't really deny...would be a better example as it's far more tangible everywhere than trying to toss numbers that we are contesting. Sure, you can say...hey Steam made 20 Billion last year (which is uncontestable NOT because they did or did not, but because as far as I know, Steam doesn't release actual sales or profits made). The amount of AAA games made specific for systems I think can be directly attributable to how profitable companies feel those systems are. The one that makes you the most money is the one you design for...with the others as hopes that they will also bring in money...even if it's not as much as your target audience. I'd say the PC market is returning to a similar market of the early 90s. So, if you consider that alive, then right now it's particularly vibrant and growing even more healty...as Indie projects and projects that are gamer friendly rather than the AAA types are gaining more control If you want it more like the time after Windows 95 started building the PC gaming sorts of popularity...I'd say PC gaming has been dying for a while in relation to how major studios treat it (as an afterthought or side thought for profits from ports).

That's an excellent question. A port is a game designed primarily for a system, and then as a side effort, it is "ported" to another system...aka...a majority of PC games these days. Alan is a little mistaken, the problem is there are too many specific games for PS3 or the Wii that came out to really realistically list them...though Xbox 360 I'm not as clear on. Many of their games seem to be shared these days on other systems. For example, you have the entire Atelier series God of War series Uncharted Series Killzone series Little Big Planet series and a bunch of non-series independent games that came out. That's off the top of my head as for series (sorry, don't want to go through and list all the games in series). Oh...and a whole slew of Japanese exclusives that never made it to the US or Canada For those who follow Japanese game scenes...there's actually a TON more...(in just dating sims alone...you get a ridiculous number on the PS3). Wii is similar with that entire Japanese games released in Asia that Americans aren't getting...but for America You have the Marios Mario Cart Zelda and whatever other series, sorry, not as big into the Wii. And don't really follow Xbox 360 at all...but I think Gears of War is at least one Xbox 360 exclusive? I know there are TONS of exclusives that come out on the consoles that are AAA games and in fact beat the 1 million mark. However, Xbox 360 and PS3 are similar in enough with controls and game style (though architecture is significantly different enough) that ports between them play better in many instances than the ports they make to the PC. IF the Xbox 360 doesn't have as many exclusives I'm thinking that's perhaps one of the reasons, many games are designed for the Xbox 360 that are ported, but due to similarities between the architecture of a 360 and PC it's easier to port to PC, but control wise it also ends up closer to the original in gameplay on the PS3. So due to ease of porting games designed for Xbox 360 may be ported more. That may also be since I don't know of as many Xbox 360 ports since I'm not a big X-box 360 player. Typically except for Gears of War if the game is coming out for Xbox and I want it I can get it for PC or PS3 for the AAA games. Wii on the otherhand, literally a majority of their games WERE exclusives from what I saw...most taking advantage of the unique architecture prior to kinnect and move getting made. Wii-U...jury is still out on that one. They are holding many of their exclusives/major players till later this year, probably in anticipation of the new PS or Xbox release. Wii-U may also be dead already, or not, hard to say. It sold a majority of consoles sold for it in the first month of it's release...so it doesn't look terrific at this point, but it's been after Christmas for a majority of that time too. We'll see what happens when they release the big dogs of their exclusives and if they have a lower enough price to compete with the Next PS and Xbox. but normally a port is a game designed for one system, and then ported to another. A majority of the cross platforms that I see I think are designed for the Xbox 360 currently. They transfer well in control to PS3 NOT because of architecture (Which I understand can be a nightmare to port) but due to design schemes. Unfortunately, for those who don't use Xbox360 controllers for their PC, the ports can sometimes be terrible in control transfer to the PC...and sometimes for reasons I can't fathom, even when you do have an Xbox 360 controller, they kill the real adaptability and make it so that it still has terrible controls. Games designed for PS3 specifically, don't seem to get ported as much. There is Final Fantasy, which seemed to port nicely to Xbox 360, and many of the Japanese RPGs which get ported over...but overall most of the games stay in Japan that are made exclusives for PS3 in the RPG realms and datesim realm.

Thanks, interesting article and interesting read.

No one refuted anything except to say, they as PC gaming fanbois couldn't see the points. Somehow they find these AAA titles that aren't ports...but except for the Blizzard games and MMORPGS (well, a few of them)...they don't ever say what those non-ported PC games are. I remember when there were a TON of PC games that were AAA titles that weren't ports...now days...crickets. We aren't talking Indies here, we mean the AAA games...just for clarification...the ones that actually sell over a million units... All the ones I know of...are made for consoles and then ported to PC. IF you are a lucky PC gamer...the ports aren't bad ports...if you are unlucky, they are. That's another reason I've switched to consoles (beyond they entire PC DRM thing) is that the games are made for consoles first and foremost. The games I play on PC these days and typically made for PC aren't the AAA titles...their all the smaller niche titles or Indie games. AAA titles I typically play on Console (and occasionally buy on PC if I'm loyal to the publisher or liked the game on console enough, such as with Obs. games typically) because that's what they are made for in the first place. Why play a copycat port when you can play the game on the system it was made for?

Thanks, this works

Now, for something a little more on topic...sorry, I've gotten derailed... http://www.destructoid.com/zombies-in-oz-american-mcgee-reveals-more-on-ozombie-254581.phtml Like Zombies, like steampunk...like Wizard of Oz???

Just note that no one has really posted PC sales here either...except someone who claimed EA made the entirety of last years PC incomes, which is odd. What's even more interesting to note WHY PC gaming is dead except for maybe the MMORPG scene is simply put...no one makes PC games except the indies occasionally these days...why... Because almost every PC game is a port of the game that they actually made for a console or a tablet. Every major company at this point has left the PC gaming market retail and the creation of major games except for Blizzard, and even they are relenting to Consoles at this point with Diablo III. They still create games, but they are for consoles, and the PC market is a sideshow...all you get these days are ports from the major creators of gaming. NOW...there IS a major player in the PC gaming market, it's not obsidian, it's not even Bioware...and it's not even Blizzard (Blizzard has made splashes with Diablo III and StarCraft II...BUT), these guys are exclusive PC game makers. Of course, non-of us probably play the games they make...so not expecting any of you to know who they actually are. The thing is, you can say PC gaming is not dead...but PC gaming has lost almost all facets of it's self-identity once you toss out the facebook and tablet games. Any AAA games are typically ports. It's lost the mainstays of FPS, TPS, and Western RPG's to Consoles, casual game markets are all gone to tablets, and the only game type left for PC's to really dominate...RTS games...is all but dead in new IPs being created (as far as I know). Almost all games on this thread if they are going to break a million units...they are ports to the PC market from a console game. There are a few outstanding, but almost all major game release are on console and PC ports normally are what you have to live with. Console games are on a decline as well...and they are giants compared to PC gaming....as I said, PC games are ports. If Consoles are on a decline and some are wondering if they are on the pathway to dying in the next generation or two...PC gaming is so much more dead and dying than consoles...UNLESS you are counting what I don't count...which are the tablet and facebook games (once again). Anyways, probably certain this has been posted here...I hate DRM...but this explains some of the decrease in PC sales and why a for years there's been so much concern about Piracy...and another reason if you want an explanation of why many PC game makers moved to consoles and gave up on PC games other than simply...PC sales were not holding up as much (not that I agree, I think they killed it themselves...but hey...this article explains what many of their viewpoints would be). Old article...but it still would apply now. http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/goinglopsided/the-decline-in-pc-gaming-202762.phtml The ONLY big question in how dead the PC game market is, depends on Steam and how much it actually makes. Steam is really the only thing comparative to the distributors of yesteryear. It wasn't the number of any single game, it was the numbers of games as a whole sold that made PC gaming such a giant.

Now that's just silly.Even the top games that made PC gaming decade ago could barely scratch 1 million mark. Only the revolutionary ones like Half Life and Diablo 2 produced a following that could consistently break that barrier. I agree that hardcore PC gaming has been declining and may go out all-together in the next console generation but there is no denying that it never appealed to same numbers as consoles have. On this site, I'm probably outspoken, but PC gaming is dead by all signs. The only major players are really Blizzard and Steam, all others are bit players. The biggest portions of PC gaming currently is MMORPGs. What people here want to count (which I expressely put as another type of sales) are tablet and smartphone game sales...and you are right as I stated in regards to those, those are currently who are making a killing. PC games, don't go to Steam, where do you actually get your PC games at this point. Origin? EA's PC gaming section for PC gaming hasn't really gotten even close to the Billion dollar sales...their console games sell a lot more as well (and of course you can never discount their sports games). Blizzard, Even if you state they sold 12 million copies of Diablo, and we'll toss in 5 million copies of StarCraft before heart of the swarm was released even though it was released prior to that by last year...at full price, that still doesn't break the 200 million mark with ALL OF THOSE SALES combined. Are you seriously trying to tell me that Steam has made 20 billion last year approximately? If so, then why isn't it in the top companies at that mark? Because I'm not seeing it on the list of those multiple of tens of billions of dollar companies...and STEAM really does have a nigh monopoly at this point which everyone else in the PC gaming market is trying to break if they aren't in the Tablet/smartphone/facebook type of games. You can't really buy PC games in stores anymore...because they don't really sale there either. Now tablet/smartphone type games...they are the whale compared to everything else. If PC gaming is the fly, Consoles are the elephant, then tablets/smartphones are the whale (actually probably bigger, they're the space whale...if you get that DrW reference). PC games may come back...but not right now. Bury your heads in the sand if you want. Make up excuses, but on this I think overall, beyond the hardcore PC gamers, most would agree. I enjoy PC gaming (believe it or not) but numberswise, unless it's an MMORPG or online type game (like Diablo) simply put, not only do I see the sales of PC gaming simply dead except for a few sellers who really, their number don't compare....but in addition in MP, the numbers simply aren't anywhere close to what the Console MP numbers are for the same games! And that's from a market that primarily GETS THEIR GAMES ONLINE at this point. I remember back in the early 2000's they compared the amount of money the Porn business was making and it was huge...but at that time PC gaming was actually making almost as much if not more money than the actual Porn industry. It wasn't that you had games selling 10 million copies in PC gaming, but the total enmasse. You had a LOT of PC games, MORE PC games, all being made. The actual numbers and variety was huge. Ironically most of those eventually moved to consoles after PC gaming took a dump...OR downsized, got a lot smaller, and now do indie games on either console or PC. But, then again, it is expected to be shouted down as crazy amongst the hardcore PC gamers...and seriously, that does sort of make me happy. Despite the fact that I probably am one of the biggest console players on this forum (which is also something I can't really figure out, do PC gamers chase the console gamers away or something? I got AP and DSIII for PC, but I also got them for consoles, I played them on consoles, and I know they were released on consoles as well as FNV...so I know there has to be console players out there that played them on the console), I'm actually considered a PC gamer overall as that's where I still do a LOT of my gaming.

For myself, PC games and console games are typically the same price today ($60). Having said that, games inevitably come down in price. Is waiting not an option? I think it depends. I am the outspoken console player on these forums (Alpha Protocol rocks on the consoles by the way), but I'd say not much can beat the Steam sales in prices...one big reason to remain a PC gamer is that if you know where to buy, you can get PC games dirt cheap.

No it doesnt. It means that I haven't heard of any of their games make a splash which considering how much time I spend on this hobby means that they're either garbage or not featured in any of the more popular publications. OK, it probably means that you regard CoD/ BF or MoW/ CoH as wargames if you think you like them but have never heard of Matrix/ Slitherine. They'd be the biggest maker/ publisher of computer wargames (as opposed to fps/ rts using war as a setting) by a fair margin. This. As a wargamer Matrix is certainly on my radar as *the* place I go to find wargames.. They make niche games, but they are hardcore, grognard style games (I have lots months of my life to War in the Pacific and it's Admiral's Edition as well). Battles from the Bulge was also really well done. Given that Slitherine also did remakes of the classic Close Combat games, I don't think any grognard could have possibly not heard of them (or Matrix). I'm probably not a grognard in the computer game sense of wargames. I've heard of them though. I don't think they are big sellers in relation to other PC makers, but they do well for a niche market...if I'm not mistaken.

I believe I have the boardgame, is it going to be based off that. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3177/battle-for-armageddon

How many of those were people that paid for a years WoW subscription and got D3 for free I wonder... Well, there were 9.6 million WOW players, dropped to 8.8 million? However, I think Blizz sources let it leak that it was only in the 1 to 2 million range for WoW subcribers that added to the D3 count. In the numbers that Bliz has actually let leaked though, there has been quite an amount of suspicion on those who are not rabid fans on how much they are actually twisting those numbers...as they integrated the WoW free gain of D3 on the account each as an additional sell of D3. Note that in some statistics they mark some rather impossible numbers considering sales. According to some of what they posted, D3 would be more popular and bigger in culture than WoW over the past year in some arenas.... But that's not reflected in what seems to actually happen. The bigger truth seems to be that it was massively pre-ordered, which occurred. They also counted many of the free downloads for the full version...as full version subscriptions, if not purchases. They also counted one person with multiple characters finishing the game as different people finishing...or rather twisting it to say characters finishing the game in some statements...either that or their number of people who have the game and have finished the game exceed their number of sales by a greater margin...which is odd considering the extent they took to prevent people from having the full game for free... The one to 3 million numbers are actual Blizzard numbers revealed on the forums for the number of those actively playing currently. As for PC gaming dying...it's not my fault that PC sales are 1/25th of what they were a little over a decade ago. I know PC gamers refuse to see it, but then again, VHS aficionados would probably also say that VHS is not a dead medium either. PC gaming DRM'd itself to death. Steam is doing well in PC gaming...not many others really are. It's a supplemental income at best to add onto their console or tablet game sales at this point for most. Even Steam wants into the Console generations to a certain degree. Console sales may also be on the way down...but they aren't that bad yet...not at the hardcore PC game level at least. On the otherhand, Tablet and smart phone games are blowing console sales out of the water overall. But hey...you can ignore the tide as the water comes in, but don't blame me when you drown. Not saying this to put Blizzard down, but they, like any other company are still trying to hype their software. That's understandable, but shuffling through the way they twist it to see more of what happened and what's happening is probably a wiser path to take. Blizzard is perhaps one of the last bastions...or was at least...of the PC gaming market. It seems even they are going to give consoles another shot soon however. Reason...because despite declining sales...the Console market still is so massive compared to the PC market at this time...that it's like comparing a fly to an airplane. Then again...consoles compared to the smartphone/tablet market is like comparing that plane to one of those massive cityships from Independence day or V or something.