Concerned Reader

That's what I was trying to say with my post on microevolution. It should feel like they could have naturally developed to live in their environment. Including, perhaps, different species of the same creature. Like a desert wolf vs a forest wolf. Or a Sewer slime vs a river slime.

I picked this up from barnes and noble a while ago, and it has a good representation of mythological creatures from a very wide spread of cultures. http://www.amazon.com/The-Element-Encyclopedia-Magical-Creatures/dp/140273543X

I actually designed and ran a freeform rpg very briefly around that idea. There was a drug that you could take to manifest things from your imagination into reality. But if you took too much then you'd start seeing imagined things all the time, and couldn't distinguish between which were real and which weren't.

I'm playing through Radiant Historia on my DS right now, and it's really made me appreciate strong storytelling and spritework within an RPG framework. Bastion would be another example of a really well done fixed perspective game.

I do like insanity as a mechanica concept for a game universe, but for it to really be utilized it'd need to be a very important part of the game world. Like in Amnesia: The Dark Decent. The entire game is built around the mechanic. If it's just thrown into PE as a cool mechanic on the side, it might have a sort of situational coolness for a bit, but then I think it'd start to develop into a sort of distraction or annoyance. If it fits within the greater themes of the game though, then that would be cool. Having too many mechanics can be as much of a problem as not having enough. (And of course everyone has their own personal idea of what constitutes too many mechanics. Personally I didn't like the hardcore mode of F:NV, but I know a lot of people did.)

Evolution should be considered when creating monsters for a setting. Specifically the concepts of microevolution where species adapt to their habitat. Deep sea creatures are some of the creepiest looking things out there because they've had to adapt to a very extreme environment. Something that I like in creature design is incorporating the side effects of magic. So say that a town goes through a lot of alchemical compounds, and dumps the left over reagents into the environment. How would this affect the wildlife? Magical mutations are always cool with me.

What you're describing does sound nice, but it doesn't actually sound like the game that Obsidian has described thus far.

The stuff they introduced about Souls does bring up some interesting concepts as well. If you happend to be one of the lucky/unlucky ones to be host to two souls, how would that affect your mental state? I've always been facinated with the concepts of reality vs perception. Having a PC who experiences halucinations which the party cannot see could be very interesting. Especially if it turns out those halucinations are real.

I've always like this sort of idea within games, but I know that some people absolutely hate it when control of the character is explicitly taken away from them.

I'm liking the way that souls are being handled. Some really interesting stuff that can be explored culturally through them, along with themes of self identity, since the souls are more or less eternal (as I understand it.) The take on Guns sounds pretty interesting too. A strategic weapon that has more weaknesses than strengths in a normal combat situation.

As I have said multiple times before, this isn't about romance. Stop trying to use that as an argument. I'm not talking about genitals. Why are you? On another note, if you would like to see another subject explored by the narrative of the game, make a thread for it. Don't post off topic about it in here. Yes, please do ignore this thread. That would be benificial to everyone involved. If you don't have something to say that is constructive to the topic at hand, then do not post.

Yeah, hetero pairs holding hands and kissing in public keep their sexuality preferences in private... or when they mention their husbands/wives/boyfriends/girlfriends.. that hot guy/girl that passed by.. they keep it private? Not. There's a hetero parade every single minute 365 days in a year, imbecile. Except heterosexuality has a biological purpose, and is kind of necessary for continuation of species. Don't try to imply that queersexuality has equal worth as heterosexuality. Crudely put but accurate. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you are it is absolutely certain you are the result of a heterosexual pairing. Also incorrect. Homosexuality has a biological purpose in that a homosexual couple doesn't bring a new child into the world, but can take care of abandoned children. It's seen in the animal world, and it's seen in our society as well through adoption. Back on topic: I agree 100% with this. Earlier someone said that there should be an explicit reason for a LGBT character to exist. I disagree because it implies that they have to have some sort of specific sob story related to their sexuality to vindicate their existance. That's the wrong way to approach it. I'm not saying that their sexuality should just be tacked on as an afterthought. I actually really liked how Bioware handled it with Cortez because it was an integral part of his character. His husband was very very important to him. It wasn't flaunted or focused down on. It was treated like any other relationship would have been. He didn't pull the PC aside and go "HEY, I'M GAY AND I HAVE THIS PROBLEM. THIS GAY PROBLEM THAT I NEED YOU TO FIX. LOOK AT HOW GAY I AM." It was woven into his narrative.

I would be entirely fine with this because LGBT people are just like everyone else. They can be good or evil or inbetween. I don't know if it's a matter of MUST HAVE, but it would certainly be interesting to see.

I'm going to again implement the plan of "ignore nigro's posts, and report them when they aren't on topic or are inflamatory." Lets keep the discussion on topic and hopefully prove that we can behave like mature individuals when talking about a senitive subject.

Back on topic, and with reguards to gender identity, it's been proven pretty well at this point that gender identity isn't a binary thing. Someone can ostensibly identify as both male and female (bigender), or bounce between the two identities (fluidgender/genderqueer). I think these two concepts could be interesting to see from a few of the cultures or races within the game.

They are also entirely different concepts from homosexuality that are widely regarded by all, from the stance that neither young children nor animals can give concent to sex, to be bad things. Could they be included within the game? Yeah, they could. Should they be? Probably not, in my opinion, but if you want to petition for it, go ahead and make a thread for it.

This is a "Good Post" that I can get behind.

Nobody is trying to force anything in. If Obsidian wants to include GLBT characters and themes, they'll do it. If they don't want to, they won't. What we're discussing is that IF they are included, how would we like them to be integrated and what themes would we like to see. Does this mean Obsidian is required to include them? No. But it does give them ideas that they may utilize in the story to make a better, fuller world.

I keep meaning to read Le Guin, but I never get around to it. This is really what I'd love this thread to be about though. Because the themes that can be explored are interesting and varied. Sexuality isn't just about what you do with your genitals. Let's just remove that argument entirely. Romance is an entirely different subject, for an entirely different thread.

Neither does including a people group. And technically, excluding the people group doesn't make the game a political statement either. It just makes it that much less colorful and diverse by design. And diversity is something I look for in a game.

Actually, the reason there have been so many threads is because the actual discussion is drowned out by kneejerk reactions and trolls. It's a very volatile subject, and should be handled with respect. Both within the game, and within the game community. Unfortunately only one of these is probably going to happen.

I guess I'll just pull this over from the other thread then. I had to google that because I have no recollection of these bioware races -- the pictures I got look like blue women with tentacles on their heads. Imagine looking at that from high above, from the isometric perspective. Would it look like a blue woman with tentacles on her head or a non-gender being? What does a non-gender being look like anyway? Modrons are asexual/non-gendered, I believe! And Nordom was cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute. You'd need a design which specifically avoids things that invokes the Bipedal Sentient Species With Sexual Dimorphism image, but it can be done. There's a lot of non-sexually dimorphic animals IRL to look for inspiration, too, if necessary. The downside of this is that it'd make said species a little, er, exotic. On the topic of asexuality, I do also like the idea of a genderless or sexless species. The Salarians from Mass Effect are a good example of a gendered species that doesn't really have a concept of a sex drive. Another good example is the aliens from District 9, where they were actually physically asexual, and had a self contained reproductive system. Elemental beings could also be a good example. Their culture in and of itself might be drastically different because they have no concept of conception in the biological sense. No patriarchy or matriarchy. Gender roles influence a lot more of our culture than people realise. The problem I have with the asari is that they still express a massive amount of feminine biological design. They literally look like blue women with large breasts and head tentacles. From a design standpoint, it doesn't really support the idea of their (mostly) asexual reproductive method. I know that it's a trade off between catering to the scifi trope and designing an original alien culture, but it still feels too much like bisexual space babes included to titilate heterosexual male gamers. (Rather than being designed and influenced by their own culture, they were influenced by ours.) And I know I'm going to get people griping that I want my cake while also eating it. It's a tricky balance between drawing inspiration from our own culture, while also letting the newly created culture build upon itself to become something new.

On the topic of asexuality, I do also like the idea of a genderless or sexless species. The Salarians from Mass Effect are a good example of a gendered species that doesn't really have a concept of a sex drive. Another good example is the aliens from District 9, where they were actually physically asexual, and had a self contained reproductive system. Elemental beings could also be a good example. Their culture in and of itself might be drastically different because they have no concept of conception in the biological sense. No patriarchy or matriarchy. Gender roles influence a lot more of our culture than people realise.

I really liked how they did it in New Vegas, and I expect that they'll do it just as well in PE. I just figured that if I could make one good thread for discussion of the topic, then we wouldn't have such a flood of new threads. You have to patch the boat before you can bail out the water. Also, thanks to you two for actually following the topic and having an amiable discussion.

Personally, I do think that the idea of different cultures reacting to sexuality differently is a good idea. It's a realistic and mature integration of the theme, and has a precedence in our current culture. Yes, it is a medieval setting, but sexuality is not a new topic. Homosexuality didn't just spring up overnight one day. The difficulty with this is that you want to be realistic without it being Homophobia Simulator 2012. It'll be a careful balance. I thought that New Vegas did a wonderful job with this on a fundamental level by having openly gay characters, as well as characters and cultures that were openly anti-gay. Though by making Ceaser's Legion the predominantly anti-gay opinion, it creates a perception that only evil groups are anti-gay, when in reality this isn't the case. Obviously this isn't an easy subject to handle. Aspects of culture affect interpretations of sexuality and gender identity. I brought this up in a seperate thread with how Native American's approached Two-Spirited people. The same style of interpretation could be used by one of the many cultures that Obsidian is planning to implement. So it is something that can add definition and realism to the world. One pitfall that I'd love to avoid is the stance that Religion==anti-gay. As someone who identifies as a bisexual Christian, this is something that always bugs the hell out of me within the media. It may be an unfortunately predominant and vocal viewpoint, but it is not indicative of religion as a whole.