Haplok

Yeah, I check monk damage rolls. Was quite interested in playing a monk. I like two-handers, so monk's primary attacks seemed like a good fit. But I always ended up disapointed with the damage output (except the dual mortar Transcendant... but that's not really due to monk performance). I refuse to play a Nalpasca and in case of Shattered Pillar / regular monk the wound generation is just not fast enough to keep up the skill spam and at the same time use Thunderous Blows, maybe Blade Turning etc. Helwalker is a bit special, as he either can't generate wounds fast enough... or ends up dead real fast. Maybe the issue is that I spec my characters offensively, so can't really keep up something like Dance of Death. When I had spare wounds, I always ended pretty disapointed with the attacks' effects. Note I do not test level 20 builds, but rather level 13 builds. As for Fortitude checks, I don't care too much if my enemies get Hobbled or not. They'll be Distracted for sneak attacks anyway. And probably also Frightened, maybe terrified. I can also paralyze, immobilize and confuse them. Devastating Blow doesn't care about their Fortitude. Neither does Strike the Bell (not that I recommend it). And I don't actually recommend picking the PL VI Cipher powers

Do you know the chance rate of the passive? Aww, it's a CHANCE for a whole of 5 Focus? Damn Obsidian...

Devastating Blow upgrade. Yeah, mostly on Blooded, preferably near Death enemies. Depending on enemy, when dual wielding, the first hit may go from Blooded to Near Death and the second may kill. Of course that's not guaranteed, depends on enemy hp and defenses and might now be much less likely with 2.1 dual nerf. It also provides +10 Accuracy (which monk skills boost Accuracy?). +25% damage spammable dual attack (with +2 Pen) is obviously Crippling Strike. Stun is nice but it's CC vs raw damage. Monk doesn't increase damage much prior to Skyward Kick (though Torment's Reach does a little splash damage). AND it's vs Fortitude, which is a bitch to beat. That's a huge weakness of Monks in general: all of their attacks target that defense, which is typically the highest. Sure, there are Enervating Blows, but the Crit rate of such a build isn't particularly high and, even when it lands, it won't drastically change things. On the other hand a Cipher can paralyze, aoe immobilize, charm, frighten and a Trickster can Terrify nearby enemies. So stunning isn't crucial, I'd say. Ad. 2.2. You can't tank in ship boarding actions with Blade Turning either. In fact Mirror Image will may carry you trough the initial, critical burst phase. If we're playing exaggeration, for me a Helwalker dies if an enemy as much as sneezes in his general direction.

Hmm, just a thought. With Ring of Prosperity's Fortune and Dirty Fighting you could have a semi-decent crit rate. Maybe if you managed to stack some more bonuses (Hearth Orlan?), you could take advantage of The Complete Self Focus refund on crits with spells like Ecto Echo (ticks every second, can hit multiple targets) or Secret Horrors (large aoe). It's just a little bonus anyway, but could be nice.

My last min/max thoughts in this discussion 1. I don't think that Trickster has something special for single-target damage that Helwalker don't offer for you, in summary you will get +85% addictive damage (Sneak + Deathblows) and Deep wounds passive - on other side Helwalker can offer for you +45% (From Strength), +15% Lighting lash, +20% Fire lash (Multiplicative), so the greatest difference is in +40% addictive damage for SA (But Monk will generate focus faster) 2. You also write about Defensiveness, but according to my tests any monk subclass with Tuotilo's Palm, has better defenseless than Trickster, at first Helwalker has +30 Fortitude defense which make him very durable even against mages and cipher enemies, at second it has +20 Will defense, at third it has +20 Reflex defenses from (+5 Dexterity and Tuotilo's Palm) and +10 Deflection from Tuotilo's Palm, Trickster can offer for you only +30 Reflex and +10 Deflection (+30 With Double mirror, but I usually don't use this spell), 2.1 Blade Turning is special ability that make Monk the best passive tank for shot period of time, you can also ignore some boss attack for example Magma Dragon or Ukaizo Dragon Essence 3. Monk will also offer for you +2 PEN, +5 DEX and (10 INT) +50% Long effect duration, this is important because 35S and 20S Borrowed instinct is very noticeable, plus monk alone can lower enemies Fortitude by 20 which will hel not only you but also your mages, plus free summons with your equip (each summon usually do +30DM per Hit), + Unlimited full attack with Ranged Weapon 3.1 +500% Range for melee weapon will convert your SA to range ability Ad. 1. I think Trickster Sneak scales higher then 35%? Regardless, you conveniently forgot about Rogue active abilities vs monk. Which Monk ability does up to 300% extra damage? Which ability is constantly spammable for +25% damage? And what do you base your assumption about Focus generating speed on? Torment's reach is +20% for THREE wounds. Skyward Kick is nice, but it's level 19 and also pretty expensive AFAIR. Ad. 2. Tuotilo's Palm? So your plan is to tank the damage output? Also you conveniently leave out 50% damage taken "bonus" of the Helwalker subclass, which is very difficult to compensate. Last but not least, you didn't mention Rymgrim's Visage, which is an excellent melee survivability boost. Ad. 2.1. Short lived indeed. Pretty cool while it lasts and great with Salvation of Time. But again, Trickster has Rymgrim's Visage which serves a somewhat similar purpose but lasts much longer. Ad. 3. Fair enough, if that's a priority. But again, Dichotomous Soul and Instruments of Pain are level 19. Plus now you don't even get Skyward Kick? For me Trickster is way more survivable then a Helwalker and requires less babysitting. Single target damage output is also much higher.

Pretty cool. One note is that Turning Wheel has been nerfed and now it's 2% Fire Lash per Wound.

What distribution would you go for? And also, what do you think of going for Spellblade instead? Bearing in mind that I'm running a Distraction tank... Well, I'd maybe go for Might 18 Dex 16 Con 10 I don't think a Distraction tank helps the Spellblade a whole lot. The main idea for me would be a totally different playstyle then. Go with Assassin/Evoker and drop Assassinate +25 Accuracy +50% Crit damage fireballs from stealth (empowered when possible). Also cool, but a very diiferent flavour - burst rather then sustainable.

First of all, you're missing Draining Whip. That's kinda mandatory. Definitely drop Greater Focus. Keen Mind has it's use on a Soulblade, mainly to be able to start combat with Borrowed Instinct. But If you plan to open with a high damage weapon aoe, like you suggest, then its kinda moot. I still like Tenuous Grasp for a cheap -20 Will. Even funnier if the enemy is weak to one of its effects (see Giant Cave Grub). Psychovampiric Shield would also be nice, but I have trouble fitting it in my builds also. I'd probably skip Blinding Strike. With Persistent Distraction you'll apply a lower level Perception debuff passively. I'd very rarely use that for 2 Guile instead of Finishing/Devastating Blow. There are better options for aoe Blind: Chillfog, even Cipher's own Eyestrike. If I would pick it, I'd definitely pick the Confounding Blind upgrade to strongly debuff enemy Deflection. But I typically give it to Eder - just to use a few times in the game for some annoying bosses. Instead I'd pick Mental Binding. I know the focus isn't casting, but that's a nice hard CC. Plus aoe Immobilize can come in handy too - you don't really want to be surrounded with this character and melee enemies are kinda helpless for the duration (immobilize tends to last longer then the Paralyze effect). Because you don't want to be surrounded and have multiple enemies focusing you, Entonia's Signet Ring seems to be a really bad choice. Get Ring of Greater Regeneration or something. I'm not sure how much mileage you'll get from Disintegrate. I'd prolly just SA instead. Personally I like Mind Plague, with Dazed enemies I feel much safer with moderate armor being in the thick of things. Race isn't that important really. I'd go with what I like. Probably not human though - with this build I feel safer not Blooded if I can avoid it. Probably Hearth Orlan is best, but I might go with Pale Elf for coolness factor + armor as well. EDIT: Oh, and I feel obliged to keep advertising Ecto Echo for party play. It's cheap, targets a good defense (reflex) on each tick, rather then once or fail, can often affect 2 targets at a time (sometimes more).

4/6 Con? Wow, you like to live dangerously.

How does the double barreled arquebus work really nicely with devastating blows? The ability only applies to 1 shot?

Thing is, it is difficult to judge classes basing on their endgame performance only. Barbarian Tier 8 & 9 abilities might be fine (the choice at PL 9 is actually difficult), but IMO they are a horrible class when it matters the most IMO, at low-to-mid levels, when you still face some challenges. So looking at PL 8 and 9 only, they might seem fine. But their career getting there will be vastly inferior to almost any multiclass.

Yeah and mortars synergize really well with the crazy Streetfighter bonuses, which are triggered by BB modal. But bows also work.

You can only pick Blood Surge and IoBR OR Dazing Shout though, can't have both. Not to mention you're also missing on Barbaric Retaliation then.

Eh, your choice of flavor. Modwyr is kinda cool. But probably other weapons, such as Grave Calling, maybe Magran's Favor or Scordeo's Edge, are even better. Modwyr is certainly very good vs Fampyrs due to Intellect immunity. You can use different weapons and see what you like.

What has this to do with single class barbs in the first place? Cause single class Barbs suck badly till very high levels and I don't want to play one? Anyway you're right, Stagger does help a single class Barb sooner. He's still left with one, very underwhelming and expensive, attack ability till level 16. And Rogue attack abilities don't just provide variety, they serve different functions as well (DoT, Blind, Hobble, Deflection debuff, killing strike, Daze, Penetration bonus, Accuracy bonus, Weaken) - which also test different defenses.

Hm, good questions. Maybe weapon based special attacks can still work, but it's worth checking.

Squid's Grasp is a rapier. I think I'd want something with a bit higher damage in main hand (since when spamming full attacks you ignore main hand recovery). Rapier would work offhand. Or Rust's, sure. Or you can go for the feels and do a rapier/stiletto combo, like you suggest. But you'll deal a little less damage.

DPS Paladin is not particularly interesting for me. Doesn't have speed boosts, doesn't have aoe capability. But at least is way more durable then a Barbarian. I frequently use Finishing/Devastating Blow, which deals a lot more damage then Barb Blow for the same cost (provided that you're lucky and Barb Blow crits). And I interrupt all the time with Mule Kick also, which has a separate resource pool.

At least in 2.1 beta Engoliero is not triggered by kills with: Mind Blades, Ectopsychic Echo, Mind Lance or Silent Scream.

It's not like the Rogue will not deal damage now. But the loss in damage output for dual-wielding will be noticeable. On the bright side, it will make you appreciate Soul Annihilation that much more (which was previously a bit overshadowed by Rogue abilities).

Swash will have significantly more buttons. Finishing Blow, Mule Kick and/or Penetrating Strike, optionally Confounding Blind. Most of them are also way more exciting then Barb Blow. Plus 3 stances, good for different situations (who am I kidding, I rarely switch from Cleaving now). At level 13 he'll also have Unbending and Charge. As for Paladin, I don't main them, but acknowledge their usefulness as party support. They have some interesting skills outside of direct damage dealing (lay on hands, Shared Flames, Beacon, Aegis of Loyalty, Liberating Exhortation, Endurance aura).

And until level 16 you're still stuck with mostly 1 very mediocre and expensive button to push. Awesome. Okay you can also Leap and Daze. Daze will last some 3 seconds longer then your recovery. Or Tornado to scare enemies for what, 4 seconds?

Eh, Druid's Stag was a nice touch, but hardly class defining. Barbs with terrible Carnage and very late access to their main abilities (like Brute Force, Blood Thirst, HoF) feel like a pale shadow of their PoE1 glory.

I don't care about performance at level 20. You don't start the game at level 20.

Barbaric Blow is not only fiddly, but also too expensive. Also it's the ONLY active button to push for a LONG time. I vastly prefer active abilities of all other classes, barring maybe Ranger's Wounding shot (but at least the Accurate version has it's uses and costs 1 bond). Savage Defiance might be nice, but is too expensive also. Stagger is maybe nice, but it's what, -15% damage? More importantly -10 Fort, but multiclass Barbs need to wait till level 16 to take advantage of it (okay, Mule Kick, but a Brute seems pretty weak damage wise for an offtank). How long does Daze from Leap last? Will it survive at least 2 of your attacks? I don't take into consideration effects which last seconds. Pure might be okay after level 13. But still inferior to most other multiclasses. Seems to me Barb is the weakest class. Sure it's okay for casters at level 19, but I don't play my characters basing on their level 19 power.