Review or Die

I'm glad some people discussed the articles I wrote: I wasn't sure anyone would read them at all! For what it is worth, doing a quick re-read I was not as clear as I could be about the expectations for such a title. Specifically, I did not expect this hypothetical Obsidian-made Fallout to make 300 million dollars. I expected that for a six million dollar game, it would make an amount respectable and proportional to its budget - a companion to go alongside Fallout 4, not a replacement. I wish I had made that clearer in the original article, particularly when that point is so near to the beginning.

You really have come up with a very ingenuous idea. I seem to remember some of that being done in Planescape Torment, and it really added a lot.

I really like this, and I think there's a lot you can do with it. The 'barks', as they call them, were never something I found particularly engaging, but you can get a lot of immersion in to the characters and their situation that way. I would love to see this player with in a really unique way like what you're suggesting.

The things I'd want to see, in order. 1. Bigger music budget (more music is ALWAYS my preference) 2. 'Wild Wasteland' style option to let the game go all-out in terms of funny stuff. I actually thought Fallout: NV didn't go far enough on that. The Low Int/Cha scripts are great, and I think this could be just as good if it's something of interest to the writers. 3. Mega-Dungeon level per 50/100k. Let's get 15 levels! 4. Another companion.

No sarcasm here: This is my favorite post in the whole topic. I wish this had topic had been devoted more to the points in narrative I made, but if I got this post instead, then the topic is salvaged for me.

If you're asking me (I'm not sure on the way quotes are typically handled by users in this forum, I apologize if you're not), I'd be happy with that. It stops things from getting lost by dividing it by party member. The visual/textual representation would make it much easier to navigate, too.

I called it inventory tetris because that's what I called it when I was a kid, swapping things around to make it fit, and moving one thing somewhere else forever and ever, not knowing it was a term for something else. So I apologize for the lack of clarity. I do not like the limited number of inventory slots, it is arbitrary and tiresome, and not being able to see what items are what without clicking or mousing over is frustrating and unintuitive. The less work inventory management is, the happier I am.

I wasn't even aware that we were discussing the IE inventory systems. In your OP you specifically complained about Inventory tetris..... which would be the grid system. The IE games don't use an inventory grid. We are discussing nothing. You are arguing over a post you did not read.

Which is why Fallout New Vegas was smart enough to separate things by categories. So does skyrim. And compartmentalizing doesn't fix the problem. It makes it worse, since, instead of scrolling up and down to find your item, you have to scroll up and down to find the item's category, then click on the category, then scroll up and down to find the item. Screw that. I'd rather play inventory tetris than duey decimal system librarian. The fact that it will not have a blind adherence to the Infinity Engine's inventory system has been mentioned by a developer in another topic, which is ultimately all I really care about. I'm not actually here to argue with you, you know. Or anyone. I posted this for the developers. They can look at it, ignore it, keep it vaguely in mind, or do whatever else they want. If people want to have a discussion, that's great and completely different, and I'd probably participate despite my relative lack of experience to other WRPG gamers. But you don't discuss, you get angry and accusatory and dismissive, and I don't see much the need to continue responding to you, a thing which I did last time purely by mistake because I knew there was nothing good which would happen because of it. Nor will anything good come of this, I'm afraid, but I am compelled to post it.

Which is why Fallout New Vegas was smart enough to separate things by categories.

3. We will have weight in our inventory system, and with more party members (6) we can make that number much smaller than many newer games. We aren't looking to design something that is annoying however. We'll be playing with getting a bit of a "realistic" feel for the inventory without making it super annoying. Hope this helps. Glad to hear your comment regarding the inventory. The Infinity Engine's inventory system never felt very fun to me, just... tedious. If it's well balanced to allow the tactical elements of the gameplay to shine through, doesn't frustrate the player, and doesn't require you to spend a whole lot of time playing with it to get to the story, I'll be happy. So does that mean... A list inventory? Personally I actually like the IE inventory style... With bags for the different small things and a bag of holding you run out of space a lot less (it would be interesting if you could have pockets on your paperdoll that opened bags for these things like a gem bag and scroll case, meaning they didn't take up space in your backpack). That's what I prefer based on games I've played. But if Obsidian has other plans that fulfill the goal of letting the player focus on tactical gameplay and the story, I am totally happy. I trust them as developers.

I've seen some word that there will be about 40-50 minutes of music. I would like to see the music budget increased to provide double that amount, if possible. Music is critically important in an RPG, perhaps moreso than any other genre, because it goes on so long.

1. Crafting will not be an afterthought. I can't give you a ton of details on the system yet, as it has yet to be designed. I will tell you our goal is to give you things to craft without throwing the balance out the window. My personal preference is to have crafting be a tool to help fill in the weak spots in the party's inventory and allow the player to make some powerfull stuff with enough research and work. I do feel the best gear in the game should be aquired through adventuring. We aren't making an MMO. Again, it is really early in the development process. The design for the crafting system will not be touched for at least a few more months I'd guess, but have faith, we'll make something good. 2. We like giving the player the freedom to get his/her arse kicked if he/she ignores signs that say "Hey, you're not ready to be here yet!" and they try anyway. The trick is to communicate that information so the player knows an area, or a creature, is probably beyond his current level. 3. We will have weight in our inventory system, and with more party members (6) we can make that number much smaller than many newer games. We aren't looking to design something that is annoying however. We'll be playing with getting a bit of a "realistic" feel for the inventory without making it super annoying. Hope this helps. Lastly, you should back Project Eternity because it is going to be awesome...duh I keed, I keed. If your not comfortable donating, we completely understand and appreciate your interest to come to our boards and voice your concerns. Glad to hear your comment regarding the inventory. The Infinity Engine's inventory system never felt very fun to me, just... tedious. If it's well balanced to allow the tactical elements of the gameplay to shine through, doesn't frustrate the player, and doesn't require you to spend a whole lot of time playing with it to get to the story, I'll be happy.

You could have the sprite next to the item name, and as something you can see when you click the item within the inventory. Cause I agree, those are very nice looking. I just don't think they're nice enough to be the reason you have an inventory slot.

I apologize if crossposting isn't considered acceptable, but I posted this in a topic about mood in this forum. "KOTOR2's humor felt the most right to me, tonally. It never went goofy, but there was always something about it that could get you grinning and sometimes just laughing out loud, despite the fact that in all likelihood the universe was going to be consumed of every living entity and you being some sort of abomination unto the Force that could very easily be the most dangerous person in the universe. I never was a fan of things that took themselves so seriously that they forgot that human beings are naturally inclined to try to relieve tension by joking, and that people are... well, they're a little ridiculous. They've got their quirks, their foibles, their things that have them saying "And what's so WRONG about [my stuffed purple giraffe]?" By ignoring humor, you're ignoring a fundamental part of the way people interact with each other and human nature as a whole. And if everything's serious, then the game can't get serious. It's a matter of contrast that makes a scene more impactful. I don't need a jester companion who tells knock knock jokes, but some humorously witty dialogue is a must for me."

Shade, I forgot to address this... my point is that it would be nice if there were certain events that didn't occur everywhere, for roleplaying reasons and artistic ones. Roleplaying wise, I generally don't talk about childhood trauma in front of strangers, so if it's going to be done, it makes sense to do it in private. It would be nice if some events occurred at in inn locations, or when you're by the campfire, or just entering a specific area. This last part was a side point, but it's the idea of having them actually walk away from you a few steps when they're upset, turn around to yell, that kind of thing. It's not a necessity, but it adds a little flavor amd depth to what's going on in a scene, if staging is a route Obsidian wants to take. There's a big difference between seeing the words "She turns from you" and coupling that with her actually doing it. It integrates things together better. And of course, all I'm suggesting is a few macro-level (not in the programming sense) movements to indicate placement of a character. But it's not something i'd consider necessary, just another way for information to be conveyed in a scene that I hope Obsidian will consider exploring, even if they say no. The only thing that matters to me in the game is for it to be able to tell its story as best as they possible can.

KOTOR2's humor felt the most right to me, tonally. It never went goofy, but there was always something about it that could get you grinning and sometimes just laughing out loud, despite the fact that in all likelihood the universe was going to be consumed of every living entity and you being some sort of abomination unto the Force that could very easily be the most dangerous person in the universe. I never was a fan of things that took themselves so seriously that they forgot that human beings are naturally inclined to try to relieve tension by joking, and that people are... well, they're a little ridiculous. They've got their quirks, their foibles, their things that have them saying "And what's so WRONG about [my stuffed purple giraffe]?" By ignoring humor, you're ignoring a fundamental part of the way people interact with each other and human nature as a whole. And if everything's serious, then the game can't get serious. It's a matter of contrast that makes a scene more impactful. I don't need a jester companion who tells knock knock jokes, but some humorously witty dialogue is a must for me.

I hated inventory management in those games. It was just one big mess. I'll take inventory tetris over that anytime. I never had a problem with it. You could accumulate too much stuff and bog down your inventory, but ideally you're selling it of. To me it's just nice to have more items than less. Aaah yes. I knew we were going to get to this point. Slotless inventory. In other words, lets take the Infinity engine's already non-believable inventory system and make it even less believable by not even bothering to implement physical space. Makes sense. Oh, and while we're at it, lets play nice and not call it what it is: DUMBING DOWN Of course we were getting to this point. That was the point. I'm not sure you read my original post, honestly, because it seems like you just want to argue. It's not dumbing down, it's removing an irritating limitation and replacing it with something like carry weight, which is A: more believable, B: More fun than an arbitrary limit regardless of whether it's physically possible because it involves less work. I don't want a game to be work, I want it to be challenging from a combat perspective and a resource consumption perspective. When I spend a lot of the game in the inventory screen putzing around, it's not a feature of gameplay, it's just tedious. Anyway, I don't really need to continue responding to your posts if you're going to forego all pretense of discussion. I hated inventory management in those games. It was just one big mess. I'll take inventory tetris over that anytime. I never had a problem with it. You could accumulate too much stuff and bog down your inventory in terms of crafting items, but ideally you're selling things off. To me it's just nice to have more items than less, because you have more options on how to play the game. Aaah yes. I knew we were going to get to this point. Slotless inventory. In other words, lets take the Infinity engine's already non-believable inventory system and make it even less believable by not even bothering to implement physical space. Makes sense. Oh, and while we're at it, lets play nice and not call it what it is: DUMBING DOWN Of course we were getting to this point. That was the point. I'm not sure you read my original post, honestly, because it seems like you just want to argue. It's not dumbing down, it's removing an irritating limitation and replacing it with something like carry weight, which is A: more believable, B: More fun than an arbitrary limit regardless of whether it's physically possible because it involves less work. I don't want a game to be work, I want it to be challenging from a combat perspective and a resource consumption perspective. When I spend a lot of the game in the inventory screen putzing around, it's not a feature of gameplay, it's just tedious, and distracts from what the gameplay is supposed to be. Anyway, I don't really need to continue responding to your posts if you're going to forego all pretense of discussion and just be condescending. Feldoth, satanzchild, I would play the HECK outta that game.

Extra inventory space? The alternative is to do away with inventory all together. Is that what you want? I'm not sure you really gather the meaning of a question made somewhat fascetiously. My point was that any such feature is not worth implementing if it can otherwise be avoided. You're presenting a false dilemma when saying that it's the only other option to get rid of the inventory. What I want is for inventory slots to be eradicated, gone completely, in every way. I want the inventory to be done similarly to Fallout New Vegas, KOTOR2, or any other inventory slotless RPG. There were still equipment slots, but inventory management (even with the carry weight limit of New Vegas) was a much simpler process that meant I wasted much less time in the menus.

In all the IE games major characters including party members all had a portrait that appeared on the left of the dialog screen when they were talking. Minor characters did not; merchants, commoners etc. I made a mod for BG2 that added a portrait for every single npc in the game based on gender and race. I think there were over 2000 images included. For PE I can understand this might be an issue, I got my portraits from random portrait sites, Obsidian would probably want to make them all and that would take considerable time unless they did "generic commoner" and it appeared on every commoner of that gender/race. I like the idea of portraits for all but the practicality of it might be a bit too much. I'm in the middle of playing Icewind Dale right now, and played Planescape Torment awhile back. I think the portraits you're thinking of for major characters are mods, because it's not what I'm seeing right now when I'm talking to characters who have voice acting. Besides that, yeah, it could be a budgetary issue, but a face can add a whole lot and I'd be remiss not to suggest it. *makes a note to look for your mod when I go to play BG2*

You mean, to see the time. Because the IE games aren't time-focused games and thus didn't need dedicated space of their own in the UI? That's my guess. That they even had a clock was for flavor purposes, and nothing more. You literally did not need to ever know the time in any of the IE games. PS: those clocks in the IE games were pause buttons. But hey, if hovering your cursor over the clock is such a "waste of time", you could move the tool-tip delay slider all the way down in your game settings, and thus save yourself 100% of your 'wasted" time. Also If I'm not mistaken, hitting the Tab button in BG2 also brings up the time If a feature's only ends up being an irritant, and is irritating, and believe me, gem and scrolls bags were plenty irritating and nothing but a workaround, what is the point in having it there at all? I would like a game with no inventory slots because it doesn't interest me to mess around with the inventory over and over again to find scrolls, potions, weapons, or whatever else might be there one by one. I would like the clock to be constantly visible so that I never, ever, ever have to do anything other than look at the clock in the corner, because there is no reason for me to do anything else related to the clock but look at it if there is an actual clock on the UI board. You're arguing a point about the way I should play games that have already come out, which seems redundant. I said what games I played in my post to give an understanding of my base of experience. I'm not suggesting Obsidian go back and change games that already came out that they do not, in fact, own. It seems pretty defensive over the old IE games, and not really conducive to any sort of discussion related to the game I'm suggesting they be implemented in. Tamerlane, you are absolutely correct, queueing would be very useful and that's the phrase I should have used.

Shades, my frustration was with moving things from character to character in the hoping of getting things to fit in my inventory, hoping I could stack things, wondering why my mage was so stupid he couldn't carry scrolls despite the weight not being an issue. It's tetris when I'm scrambling to get things to fit on to my characters. Inventory slots are an enormous pain that are just not worth the trouble. Stun, why should I have to mouse over to see the clock? It's a waste of time, and the bulky clock shown in most IE games does little but take up space without much use. Overall, I think if you have character portraits then every single character named character should have a static portrait, not just a few key characters. Maybe that's not possible, but that would certainly be my preference, so that I get some more information about the character communicated in this visual way.

Hi all, I've backed Project Eternity, and I'm really excited for it. I love Obsidian's writing, and the idea of this team having complete freedom in what they create is so exciting. Knights of the Old Republic 2 is unequivocally my favorite RPG. I've really enjoyed Planescape Torment, I started Icewind Dale 1 & 2 over the last few weeks, and I played Baldur's Gate when I was a kid... but I can see some issues with them that could be improved, without changing the game dramatically. My issue isn't with the writing, but some of the interface and gameplay. I'm not saying Project Eternity should be different from an Infinity Engine game, and I know it won't be. That's why I backed it, it's the game the team wants to make and I want to play! But there are things that I hope will be different in Project Eternity from past RPGs, and I just want to share them. I really do want to stress that asking for these changes does not seem like I'm asking the team to change things integral to the Infinity Engine experience. 1. Inventory slot tetris is, not to put too fine a point on it, something that had me screaming at the computer when I played Baldur's Gate. I really dislike carrying capacity as a concept, but the unimmersive nature of inventory slots drives me insane. If there has to be carrying capacity at all, I would rather it be based solely on weight. 2. Related to that first point about the inventory: I would truly enjoy having both the name and picture of the item visible simultaneously, so I did not have to mouse over an item or click to determine what exactly it is. 3. I love companions in Obsidian games. Understanding their past, their motivation, their torment, their views on life... I could rave about Knights of the Old Republic 2's companions forever. But it would be, I think, more immersive if certain dialogue options weren't available in public. Seeing you and a companion talk together in the privacy of an inn about the companion's past he's not proud of would make much more sense than doing so in the middle of a town square. You get more options for atmosphere, music and staging that way on top of it, even if all that means is that a character walks to the the window and looks out as they talk to you. 4. I know there have been no comments about what romance options are available, whether they would be available with companions or not, but there is an aspect of videogame romance which has always gotten under my skin a little. There are times in games where a romance is 'done', and you have exhausted all dialogue options, and the game continues unchanged. It would be nice, if romance exists, that it impact the game beyond the dialogue tree. It frustrates me to see them marginalized. 5. Character portraits. One of my issues with characters in the Infinity engine or Fallout 1/2, and maybe other people don't have this issue, is that I have some trouble telling who characters are from the small models, especially at the angle they're typically presented in. With a static portrait of the character you're speaking to made visible during dialogue, we'd be able to get more information communicated about them through their appearance, and make it easier to recognize the hundred-plus named characters we'll see in the game. I'm not saying a full-body portrait is necessary for everyone, but a bust-shot would help tremendously and add a lot to the visuals of the game. 6. I understand Josh Sawyer's predisposition to historical accuracy in design, which creates for an incredibly immersive type of world. It's something I'm really looking forward to seeing in this new setting. From a design perspective, it can limit and homogenize weapon types. I'm just hoping that it won't be the case here, either from a skill design or treasure placement perspective. It would be really nice if longbows and swords weren't the be-all end-all of weapon types, that's all. 7. This has nothing to do with Infinity Engine games, but the crafting system implemented in Project Eternity I've played games with crafting systems, and... well, the truly customizable ones always break, making it a given that you would invest in crafting because the items you create will always be the some of the most powerful in the game, with 'found' treasure often ending up in the dust. It ruins much of the specialness of unique magic items and can really upset game balance. I love breaking the game as much as anyone, and I couldn't begin to tell you how to to balance a crafting system, but KOTOR2's is the closest to balance I've seen in a game. It afforded more customizability rather than overpowering the characters, and found or bought treasure such as the weapons or lightsaber ctystals was still important. 8. I would appreciate the ability to tell a character to move to a location, remain there, then take an action, without having to pause the game after I've had them move and tell them to attack like in Icewind Dale. 9. This is such a small thing, but I have to say it. I would appreciate it if I did not have to mouse over the clock to see what time it is. It never added anything to the experience for me. 10. I realize I am asking for a break in immersion, but if the New Vegas style quest log type of functionality is not being implemented where you have a list of the 'tasks' you have unlocked along with a description... please provide a search function for the journal so I do not have to look through every single page for a critical piece of information. An index, names for the entries, a straight 'type what you're looking for', something. That's my list. No big changes there, I think, just suggestions. Much of what I had hoped would be corrected, such as the resting system, moving away from Vanician magic, giving fighters more to do than just hitting people, have already been put in to place. I have a lot of faith in Obsidian and the design team, and I hope this is viewed in the spirit it was intended in: suggestions in the hopes of playing a game that's better than the old Infinity Engine games, without changing what makes them Infinity Engine style games. I can't wait to play Project Eternity!