Stun

Ooh! I have a few. But I'll ask only the ones who's answers wouldn't be spoilerish. 1) Ball park estimate.... about how long does it take to do the Mega dungeon in its entirety? 2) If you had to pick a favorite NPC, who is it and why? 3) Are any of the scripted interactions fatal?

I agree. Selling sh*t should not be a mini-game. I applaud its removal.

So is tapdancing on broken glass. Beat me to it. I did laundry this morning. That was more fun than DA2

It doesn't. Again, I'm finding myself reloading and resting far more often in the beta than I ever did in the IE games. Of course, to be fair, this might not actually have anything to do with the endurance system. It *might* have more to do with the fact that there's no real healing magicks in the game...plus the fact that enemies in this game can hit pretty hard and the game doesn't give you a whole lot of options to mitigate that..... and the fact that the fatigue system is kinda wonky at the moment, forcing that 15 minute work day upon you even if you're not hurt at all.

Those were in fact, the stated reasons. All of them ridiculous. - The first one is easily rendered moot with potions, scrolls and items that anyone can use. Radical concept, I know! And RPG fans love loot, so it's a win/win alternative. -The second one is typical Josh Sawyer philosophy - worrying about the lowest common denominator instead of the *role player*. Hey Josh, Here's a news flash for you: In PoE, a total party wipe makes players reload their game, too. So what are you gonna do about that? Hmm? Are you going to scrap total party wipes in the sequel to eliminate such degenerate save-scumming? Or are you just gonna expand on your design and introduce a 3rd, 4th, or 5th type of health bar to make reloading even more rare? -The third one shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone who knows better. Sawyer himself developed Icewind Dale 2 - a game that only took 10 months to make -and- didn't suffer from any balance issues, -and- didn't see players resting after every battle -and- didn't have to have 2 kinds of health bars to prevent 'degenerate reloading'. Incidentally, if these are the *actual* reasons why they introduced an endurance bar (instead of just being the explanation given for public consumption) then the design is already a failure. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm finding myself both resting more frequently and reloading more frequently in this beta than I do in ANY of the IE games. The addition of a stamina bar is not making any difference whatsoever.

I was under the impression that engaging the community is part of the job... doubly so when it's a kickstarter project. But lets not open that can of worms again.

Or you could just have a multi-tiered infraction system where repeated offenders and those responsible for creating a consistently toxic atmosphere quickly find themselves banned unless they change their ways, but occasional missteps don't draw serious consequences? ^A system like that works. I've seen it in action. Although usually it's a bit simpler than you're describing it. Basically it's a 3 strikes rule. 3 strikes and you're suspended for a period of time (3 days, 5 days, whatever). 3 suspensions and you're gone for good. Essentially a system like this gives posters plenty of time to.... learn how to chill out. Still has some problems though. People are people and they'll game the system; or whine about unfairness; or bitch about moderators they think are "out to get them" etc.

Maybe on paper it sounds great, but Obsidian has done the mind-exploration-thing before (Mask of the betrayer... the sleeper's prison, and Anya's dream) and it wasn't all that. It was a neat concept I suppose, but I wouldn't prefer it over a well designed good old fashioned dungeon experience.

I, too, am not sure what they mean when they say that a psychological 'dungeon' like the one described by Avellone is not a primary gameplay driver. But I do understand the "lack of resources" explanation. Unless the entire scenario was going to play out in one of those scripted interaction things, It was going to need its own level and area design work, and unique assets and set pieces to properly capture the dream-like landscapes that would be in someone's mind.

Ok, if this isn't the case in point perfect example of what's being discussed on this thread, then I don't know what is. It's almost like epic sarcasm, except it's not.

That's a good question. Personally, I don't view it as one. I call myself a grognard. But we all know full well that rude or not, it is a Label, and many people dislike getting labeled, and the situation is only compounded when the one who's tossing that label around is doing it as an insult.

It's not nearly to the BSN level either. And definitely not to the Bethsoft forum level. Relatively speaking, these forums are as civil as gaming forums can ever be. The echo chamber ideal some of you seem to be seeking is just as unhealthy as it is unattainable. And you wouldn't want it anyway, whether you think you do or not. If you're here, then that means you're a GAMER, and gamers are competitive by definition. Thus a forum filled with nothing but quiet, peaceful agreement will bore any gamer away rather quickly.

Same I announce and extend my deepest Grognardian mea culpa on behalf and my....tribe/gang/group/club/cult/brotherhood/family etc. There's simply no justification or excuse for my (our) existence. I'm....Sorry.

What a waste of time you are.

It has been pointed out to you -- repeatedly -- that Chris Avellone is, in fact, actively engaging with the fans in a number of ways and number of communities, with specific lists of the ways and communities in which he is active. Twitter and cons, to na,me two. Ok, PrimeJunta, since I'm getting tired of calling you to task and getting nothing from you but empty claims, I'm going to do your job for you. Avellone is active on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone He posts lots of pictures....of promotional events he attends, like this Pax conference (for example). He wishes people a happy new year and a merry Christmas. He imparts humorous vignettes about his personal life, and displays his awesome doodling skills. He discusses everything but the development/game itself. I'm pretty sure though, PrimeJunta, that this is NOT what he meant when he said that the kickstarter model allows him to interact with the fans directly and freely about the development process, as opposed to how things must be if a big publisher was in charge. That much is *painfully* Obvious. Because if that WAS what he meant then he'd be full of sh*t. He's doing nothing here that every single Bioware developer hasn't done every day while under EA's control.

The evolution of this thread is both interesting and bewildering at the same time. This entire discussion began when someone (Ok, me, I admit it) commented on something that just Chris Avellone said - that he loves the kickstarter model because it gives him the freedom to interact with the fanbase freely and directly during development. Then come the responses to this, in no particular order: 1) Josh is very active everywhere! 2) The devs are busy! 3) The Devs HAVE communicated with us! 88 updates! 4) The fanbase is vicious/immature/[____insert bad personality trait here___]! 5) The forums are a hostile environment! 6) Communism! Sexism! Feminism! Grognardism! Then of course, there's the occasional attempt to address the actual comment that was made. 1) While Chris Avellone doesn't post in his own forum, he freely and directly engages the fans elsewhere! we're sure of it... we just don't know where! 2) If I was Chris Avellone, I wouldn't engage the fans here either, but I would still proudly broadcast the fact that I can! Ok, I guess this is a dead end. Anyway, the stream! That army of summoned Skeletons is super cool. It's totally BG1-ish! I almost wish they put Drizzt in this game so that I can surround him with a sea of skeletons as my party takes potshots from the back in safety. Aaah, memories!

We weren't talking about the development process. Nor did this discussion begin with anyone claiming that the development process for PoE isn't refreshingly open and transparent. That's YOUR goal post moving/stream of consciousness. We were discussing Chris Avellone's Ironic comment that going the kickstarter route means he's been free to directly interact with the community. That is why I asked everyone else here if they've ever seen a Chris Avellone post in the PoE forums. Remember?

This is simply untrue, especially when we're talking about the guys who make up Obsidian. I was *there* on the Black Isle/Interplay forums when they were developing Icewind Dale 2. I was *part* of the community that begged Josh & Co. to implement Deity-based Cleric domains (which they ended up putting in at the last minute thanks to our forum feedback, for example). There's very little that's truly new here, and NOTHING has changed in Chris Avellone's public communication.... except maybe he's communicating even LESS now.

Aah, Mind Readers R us. Got any proof that he was referring specifically to his Twitter followers and no one else? Yeah, I didn't think so.

This has nothing to do with what we're discussing. There's no publisher on earth that would have stopped Chris Avellone from coming on here to discuss dialogue mechanics, or NPC interaction depth (for example). The shackles here are, and have always been, self imposed. So it's disingenuous for him to peddle the notion that this 'freedom' to engage the fans is anything new, or unique thanks to the kickstarter model.

Translation: While we fully (and repeatedly) acknowledge the fact that the Kickstarter model gives us the freedom to interact more directly and more openly with the fan base, we still prefer to adhere to the communication shackles imposed by the Big Publisher model -- and not excersize that freedom....ever*....because our fanbase is too mean. *Yes, EVER. In Chris Avellone's case, it's not a matter of constantly wading in, or even occasionally wading in. It's NEVER wading in, no matter what. He does not have a single PoE-based post on this forum. In fact, the last time he took part on a thread here was in f*cking 2006.

That's no different than how things are in any traditional Publisher-funded model. So no. And we haven't had a single story/narrative based update anyway (ie. stuff that Chris would logically discuss), so make that a double NO. For God sakes, even friggin BIOWARE's writers did monthly NPC profile threads for DA:I on the BSN. But apparently we peons here on the Obsidian forums aren't even worth that much time from Obsidian's writing staff.

Then one wonders why he's citing community-developer interaction as one of the great boons of a kickstater project- and one of the things he found so "freeing and liberating" about the PoE development process.

Despite your hyperbole, and contrary to how things might seem in your eyes, the fanbase here is not the enemy. Nor does the decision to not post here have ANYTHING to do with anyone's posting style. Chris Avellone is Obsidian's creative director. A discussion with him would NOT be about game mechanics anyway. It would be about... writing. And maybe even quest design. As it happens, there hasn't been a single day since the kickstarter pitch where a Romance thread (for example) hasn't been an active topic on these forums. One would think that Avellone, of all people, would have words to say on the subject, or stance to argue on such matters, or even an alternative to peddle to those who are disappointed in Obsidian's decision to not have them in PoE. But... nada. He's simply not present in this particular community.

Turn based has its place.... in any game that isn't an IE spiritual successor.