Drowsy Emperor

The only good thing about these arguments is that they lead to proppa grammar. <<<will butt out now. Battlefield control terminated.

What's with the snide remarks in every post gromnir.

I don't celebrate it, I take things as they are - what's done is done. I can't suddenly glorify my pagan ancestors and fall prostate before Svarog the thunderer. If they're on the garbage heap of history it means they belong there. Constant invasions? You are aware that Islam has been invading and expanding from its arabian roots to the atlantic coast on the west and southeast asia on the east? That's a stretch of land the roman empire couldn't conceive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests Europe almost fell at the hands of the Ottomans! I fail to see how the puny Crusades and the short lived Mongols put a dent in Islam. You do realise that your view of Islam is ultimately intolerant? You want to meddle and change them in your image "for their own good" - you may criticize Christianity but at the same time you advocate an ideological crusade. Whose only purpose is to make them more like you because you cannot tolerate them as they are. I can. As long as they stay on their side of the border. I know my place, and they should theirs. Mutual respect for our borders and religions, peace in general, war if necessary. That was the basis for a good 1000 years of healthy relations.

I don't celebrate it, I take things as they are - what's done is done. I can't suddenly glorify my pagan ancestors and fall prostate before Svarog the thunderer. If they're on the garbage heap of history it means they belong there. Constant invasions? You are aware that Islam has been invading and expanding from its arabian roots to the atlantic coast on the west and southeast asia on the east? That's a stretch of land the roman empire couldn't conceive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests Europe almost fell at the hands of the Ottomans! I fail to see how the puny Crusades and the short lived Mongols put a dent in Islam. You do realise that your view of Islam is ultimately intolerant? You want to meddle and change them in your image "for their own good" - you may criticize Christianity but at the same time you advocate an ideological crusade. Whose only purpose is to make them more like you because you cannot tolerate them as they are. I can. As long as they stay on their side of the border. I know my place, and they should theirs. Mutual respect for our borders and religions, peace in general, war if necessary. That was the basis for a good 1000 years of healthy relations.

Hate? Nein. At this point in time I admire their lifestyle more than what the west has come to. I go to Abu Dhabi - I see in it a healthy traditional society, where people know their place and there are some common values binding them. I go to Prague and there's an immigrant shoving crack in my hand at every other corner, people getting dead drunk in the street - picking up whomever they're gonna screw next in a nightclub. The problem with everything "good" about Islam is that it applies only to muslims, the rest of us can either become that or get our throats cut. That starts to happen when they become the majority anywhere. I draw your attention to the permanent warfare of the islamic north africa (Sudan) against the christian and animist blacks of the south. Killings, cleansing, forced conversions - a daily occurrence. I draw your attention to Lebanon, and the constant pressure on the christian minority to assimilate. I draw your attention to the copts in Egypt, a christian minority that's daily under attack. Why are all the christian churches in northern africa and middle east surrounded by high walls and barbed wire? Wherever Islam is a majority you get slow cultural and religious genocide - it doesn't take much knowledge of history to see this. Your mistake is thinking that they're your pet monkey that you can train to "behave". They're not. They haven't changed much for a thousand years, except for ever expanding outward. Do your homework, instead of using your partially assimilated, well spoken and behaved neighborhood "Hassan" as an example of type. He is not. The driving force and decision makers behind everything in the 1.6 billion strong Islamic world is the clergy and they're fundamentalist as a rule. They interpret reality for the masses, choosing it for them. And to them, you barely qualify as a human being if you're christian and an abomination if you're atheist.

If Westerners had any brains, they wouldn't be self-destructing, would they? You're bitter. I like you. The sad thing with this downward spiral is that even without immigrants, Islam, or any "other" you'd care to mention or blame - things would still stay on course because all the crap is all ultimately done and decided by "our" political elites. I remember sitting in a cafe in Abu Dhabi and watching the masses pass by - and of the people I saw, the euro/us/aus were the worst dressed (worst in the sense - inappropriate), least well behaved and stood out like juveniles among grownups. I had a friend tell me similar but equally bad stories from his visit to Thailand. Its embarrassing when you remember that being a european/american once included carrying yourself with a certain amount of dignity.

Why is it that they don't marry with other immigrant residents if there are so many of them? 'coz there's no welfare in the "old country". And what do you people get out of this? More ways to spend out tax money. But yeah, it's less of a religion based thing, and more related to a general cultural thing. I'd say that kurds have assimilated a lot better than, say, the somalis. Kurds have a strong entrepreneurial spirit, so even if they mostly keep to themselves, they're strongly motivated to learn the language and have a great respect for education and working hard. Means that if they occasionally kill girls who go out with local guys, they still cause a lot less mayhem than those who consider spending your days chewing khat the best thing ever. Dunno, it seems kinda ludicrous to allow everyone to bring their illiterate, dark ages aunt to the party. Although I've seen british women on TV marrying hindu men for cash so they could come to the UK. Don't see the point of a law that you can avoid so easily. I still don't see the purpose of all this. Its not as if europe needs any more cheap labor, if there are so many immigrants hanging about doing nothing.

Why is it that they don't marry with other immigrant residents if there are so many of them? 'coz there's no welfare in the "old country". And what do you people get out of paying welfare for third world citizens?

Why is it that they don't marry with other immigrant residents if there are so many of them?

Explain this to me please.

You can laugh, but people are inherently attracted to strict moral codes - if they lack one they often gravitate towards it. I believe, though I can't find the stats that Islam has the most converts in Europe of all the major religions.

I concur that the problem aren't the muslims themselves but the "head in the sand" multiculturalism propagated by EU politicians.

I was talking about immigrants causing terrorism. The article doesn't actually say what this "terrorism" consists of and what the nationality/religion the majority of them belong to. Many of these, like separatist movements are confined to one or two countries. Some, like the anarchists more often engage in property destruction than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if nationalist attacks (like skinheads) on immigrants were also classified as terrorism. As terrorism goes I don't see any world spanning organizations except Islamic ones. But even the most hardcore right wingers don't see Islam as a threat militarily or through terrorism, (after all terrorism isn't very far reaching) but through demographics/unchecked immigration* (mostly) and ideology (to a lesser extent). As is plain, for every 2 ethnic Norwegians approximately 15-20 muslims are born in Norway. Obviously, there are a lot more Norwegians so the number of Norwegians born still exceeds all minority groups combined, but in the long run its a losing game. The 1.8 Norwegian fertility isn't high enough to sustain the native population.

My experiences with it are slight. As a small and poor country we were not targeted for mass immigration. The only substantial number of immigrants is our "chinatown" which hasn't been a source of any major trouble. However the same self whipping approach is accepted by our political elites regarding matters of vital national interest. They're ignoring the rise of fundamentalism in one borough with a substantial muslim population, spouting the same multiculturalist rethoric in the case of Kosovo (to disguise the fact that they want to let the issue go down the drain) etc. The problem is not the muslims per se, its the ideology of multiculturalism and its proponents that's making them untouchable. It has become perverse to the degree that I can, in the news, hear anti-serbian, pro-separatist attitudes from muslim leaders (in that borough) - some of them borderline treason. On the other hand, anyone with a nationalistic platform gets jailed instantly. Some cultures are fully able and willing to assimilate. Others like for example the chinese, don't assimilate but don't cause trouble either (obviously there is crime but its not ideologically motivated). It is only the Islamic immigrants that: 1. fail to fully assimilate and, 2. participate in terrorism When is the last time you heard of a Hindu or Chinese, or a Polish immigrant planning a religiously motivated bombing attack? Yet... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-20...ood-attack.html @Grom: I will not accept it not being open to discussion. If its not open to discussion, its no different from any dogma you care to mention.

Multiculturalism isn't a topic that is open for debate in europe. Anyone and everyone from the right who attempts to honestly criticize and suggest change is branded a nazi/skinhead/racist/bigot/islamophobe. The only political "right" is a sort of center option that is more or less the same as its liberal counterpart, and that option doesn't question squat. There is a systematic persecution of conservatives, in the form of media censure and negative stereotypical branding. Academicians and respectable people have been shoved under the rug whenever they dare mention Islam. A few more outspoken people have even been killed. I have myself watched fundamentalist wahhabis mingle among regular believers without a single sign of disapproval on their part. The very same wahabis were later arrested on charges of terrorism. Therefore I have drawn the logical conclusion that the majority will never accept the basic tenets of european civilization. But ultimately that is a western problem for westerners to solve. What I do care about is the fundamentalists occupying a fifth of the territory of my country - a key territory at that. This is unacceptable. For this quasi state to cave in, US/NATO patronage must be withdrawn. The same applies to Bosnia, whose breakup is desirable for the best of all involved. Which is why I will support any and all options that will go toward changing public opinion on the issue of multiculturalism. Any and all options that have a chance of working, of which Breivik is obviously not a part. In fact, to my cause, he's a disaster. But that changes nothing about the obvious and deep flaws of multiculturalist dogma and the repeated self flagellation of enforced political correctness. It is not the basis for a healthy inter civilization relationship.

You might want to try: http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T-Fligh...2158&sr=8-1 Its cheap and pretty well made. Thrustmaster has some really respected high end stuff as well. Saitek has been slacking off. Some of the Cyborg series sticks come apart after days of use, I'm reading complaints left and right.

I wanted to buy that as well but I ran out of cash.

Its curious how every anti Islamic attitude is automatically dismissed as fear mongering and hate fueling without being addressed at all. You never actually get to hear what these attitudes are in detail, and when you do its some butchered skinhead version a child could sneer at. The supposedly serious (I say supposedly because I haven't read it yet) right wing studies of Islam like Serge Trifkovic's "Sword of the Prophet: Islam; History, Theology, Impact on the World " are never brought up while the most retarded of the right wing camp are routinely given enough media time to make fools of themselves.

Topic title says it all. List your gameranger account ID, and games you play or would like to play in multiplayer but just can't find other people with similar interests. Also, time zone listing might be a good idea. Account ID: Varyag Quake III Arena Age of Empires II the Conquerors Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri timezone: GMT +1

All that being done is equating him to state sponsored terrorism and noting the mass media hypocrisy involved. If state sponsored terrorism is okay then Brevik is okay, and vice-versa. I've been raging against state sponsored terrorism for ages on these boards so its clear where I stand.

1. No one is being defended. Chalk it up to Volourn teenage mind to draw the stupidest arguments from any conversation. 2. I was speaking in general terms. You consistently question and mock everything I say even when supported by evidence that you don't care to skim through. Unwilling to actually converse every comment you make boils down to sarcasm. Especially on the topic of the Balkan wars where you might as well be a CNN spokesperson. I couldn't care less whether you or not agree, but your attitude is different from people like Walsingham who engage in conversation instead of bull****ting their way through it.

Ah, the famous "everyone knows!" argument. I hope it doesn't float at wherever you are studying. Oh please. Continue to plead ignorance at every inconvenient opportunity. Make my day. Better ignorance than wanton misrepresentation. It is not. End of story. Details of the chechen conflicts and western involvement are neither particularly secret nor unknown. Modern states in general have a history of supporting terror groups to further their interests while justifying or misrepresenting them at home. US and the former USSR in particular. The only difference between the people who make up those groups and Berivik is that he went solo and had no state support. States condemn men like him for one simple reason (that has nothing to do with morality): they can't control him and he makes them look bad, inept. Their licensed terrorists, a whole jolly bus full of Beriviks however, may kill as many children as necessary. Just as long as they don't talk about it too much because of all the bad PR. Everything is hypocrisy. Your - is your self image of being the "right" side where in fact there is none. That is why I have zero respect for people like you who give themselves some sort of special status. You can - everyone else can't. You are right and everyone else is wrong. Your hands are never dirty no matter what you do. What a joke. And then when **** like this happens you go: how could this happen in our peace loving little country - never questioning the humorous notion of how a country that's a part of NATO - which has led so many wars could be considered peaceful by anyone of right mind. Beriviks killings are a monstorus tragedy, civillian casualties due to NATO attacks - collateral damage. Please.

Ah, the famous "everyone knows!" argument. I hope it doesn't float at wherever you are studying. Oh please. Continue to plead ignorance at every inconvenient opportunity. Make my day.

I don't want to stamp all over your point old man, but I know what life was like under Apartheid. It wasn't like that in Europe last time I checked. Nope. I just checked again. I have full franchise rights and employment possibilities. Plus a cracking stack of booze and porn. No Islamofascist nightmare just yet. Never said it was, I'm just comparing character traits between those type of people. The "justness" of their "cause" is irrelevant. @Nepenthe: don't be silly. Everyone knows the Chechens enjoyed covert political, financial and military support from the west in various degrees, until it became unprofitable to support them. Paying lip service to the victims on one side and supporting the killers on the other does not make the situation magically okay.

That was my point all along. There are nutjobs and nutjobs but this one is nowhere near as nutty as the rest. From what I gather he blames the local powers that be for the Islamic "problem" and not muslim themselves. Which is pretty logical -EU immigration is after all not a policy made in Pakistan. You know, life is strange. Mandela and his ANC set god knows how many bombs and killed god knows how many people and today he's celebrated as a paragon of democracy - and Breivik is a monster. Yet they're the exact same the end-justifies-the-means terrorist fanatic mentality, with not a single difference between them. You pick a cause, you pick your enemy and when the heads start to roll the only thing that decides who you are is whose civillians are getting killed. If they're "our enemy" like the aparheid boers, fine - just rack up a body count. You'll still be a hero in the end. And no I'm not talking out of my ass on Mandela, I lived in those parts and talked to a lot of south africans. His deeds are well known, yet the west chose to look the other way. The exact same applies to the Chechen terrorists. They killed a school full of (primary school?) kids yet they were still labelled as "freedom fighters". Where's the horror and dismay for the russian kids? A bit lacking no? Breivik was labeled as a christian fundamentalist before anything about him was known. You'd have to positively hate anything to do with christianity to make a casual and unfounded statement like that, based on nothing more than his FB profile. The man clearly says that religion is important to him but that its not the reason and cause for his actions. Yet the accusations persist. He's also compared to far right nazi types, yet he repeatedly glorifies Israel and Jews while being critical of skinheads and neonazis.