Drowsy Emperor

Hahaha. Irony. *sigh* mockery gets you nothing. If I wasn't being clear on an issue (and it happens obviously) at least ask for clarification before resorting to it.

Don't be absurd. I was just listing anything related to possible "combat readiness" and bodybuilding is supplemental training at best. I weight lift myself (moderately) and its a great help in strength building for other unarmed combat training: martial arts/boxing/mma. Overall though unarmed combat has a very small role in military training regimes serving more to sustain physical readiness and troop competitiveness than increase combat proficiency.

Disciplined "lifestyle" while planning (claim supported by skimming through journalistic entries) - not disciplined killing. I don't think he even did army service. The only semi-combat related skills he had were bodybuilding and target practice. Therefore the notion of a sort of "military discipline" can be safely thrown out of the window.

I knew about the policeman, so what? Dude, I'm not saying they had 100% a chance to do anything but the numbers are what they are - 1:76. Its simply a lot of people and he pulled it off too easily. He would have had to change clips at some point (even though a well trained individual can do that really fast) and couldn't possibly be aware of so many people at all times. A healthy adult can no more take a thrown brick to the head than anyone else. This goes a lot into the "what if" territory but there simply was very little resistance, or so it seems.

That is not how proponents of multiculturalism/political correctnes treat tolerance in practice. There were 76 of them. Even with panic, and most people not being of the confrontational sort its remarkable that no one had the presence of mind to do anything at all. People have been killed by a well thrown rock you know. PS: You don't disarm people wielding a knife. You either shoot them, throw things at them or run. Everything else is suicide unless they're a completely inept punk. Although most people that brandish a knife, are really looking for a way not to use it. If they wanted to use it, you'd never get to see it before its too late.

Its not going to happen. The recent revolutions in the islamic world point to this. The west conveniently chose to view them as cries for "democracy" which they assuredly were not. They were cries for a more legitimate government than the various dictatorships and everyone knows who has the ultimate legitimacy in the Islamic world - the priests. The revolutions point to an erosion of secular authority within the Islamic world (besides who can conceivably rouse the people without support from the priests?) - and some countries are going that way even without riots, like Turkey. Let me remind you that Turkey was the most secular country in the region and that its shift to a more Islam infused policy is very much indicative of what the future holds.

hey, freaking shot in the dark but do you wanna talk about the bombing sometime? I don't know what more there is to say. I pointed out the man is not like the media portrayed him, judging by his manifest ("christian fundamentalist") and that he's more of a self proclaimed revolutionary/terrorist than a rampage killer (the sparing of the 11 year old suggests this as well). I believe the parts about his alleged organization are true, but its also evident that he cut connections with them some time ago and that they would not approve and support what he did. The attacks speak to a high degree of dedication and planning and a lot of discipline if he indeed pulled it all off by himself. The choice of targets has a sort of logic not exactly often seen on the far right. Most right extremists target whoever grieves them, which is usually some "other" although in most cases it is "your own" that are at fault (who did let the immigrants in after all?). Evidently Breivik was not as stupid as most in this regard. However the picking of children as targets undermines a lot of politics in the issue, because even he had to know that they're not a legitimate target in "revolutionary struggles". No one is going to be wooed to the cause of a child killer. That speaks to attention seeking and egoism/mania. Also another thing to note is the strange ineptitude of the victims. 76 of them could not conceive a way to incapacitate or kill the man while he slaughtered them like sheep, with a single gun? Not all of them were teens from what I gather.

The only good thing about these arguments is that they lead to proppa grammar. <<<will butt out now. Battlefield control terminated.

What's with the snide remarks in every post gromnir.

I don't celebrate it, I take things as they are - what's done is done. I can't suddenly glorify my pagan ancestors and fall prostate before Svarog the thunderer. If they're on the garbage heap of history it means they belong there. Constant invasions? You are aware that Islam has been invading and expanding from its arabian roots to the atlantic coast on the west and southeast asia on the east? That's a stretch of land the roman empire couldn't conceive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests Europe almost fell at the hands of the Ottomans! I fail to see how the puny Crusades and the short lived Mongols put a dent in Islam. You do realise that your view of Islam is ultimately intolerant? You want to meddle and change them in your image "for their own good" - you may criticize Christianity but at the same time you advocate an ideological crusade. Whose only purpose is to make them more like you because you cannot tolerate them as they are. I can. As long as they stay on their side of the border. I know my place, and they should theirs. Mutual respect for our borders and religions, peace in general, war if necessary. That was the basis for a good 1000 years of healthy relations.

I don't celebrate it, I take things as they are - what's done is done. I can't suddenly glorify my pagan ancestors and fall prostate before Svarog the thunderer. If they're on the garbage heap of history it means they belong there. Constant invasions? You are aware that Islam has been invading and expanding from its arabian roots to the atlantic coast on the west and southeast asia on the east? That's a stretch of land the roman empire couldn't conceive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests Europe almost fell at the hands of the Ottomans! I fail to see how the puny Crusades and the short lived Mongols put a dent in Islam. You do realise that your view of Islam is ultimately intolerant? You want to meddle and change them in your image "for their own good" - you may criticize Christianity but at the same time you advocate an ideological crusade. Whose only purpose is to make them more like you because you cannot tolerate them as they are. I can. As long as they stay on their side of the border. I know my place, and they should theirs. Mutual respect for our borders and religions, peace in general, war if necessary. That was the basis for a good 1000 years of healthy relations.

Hate? Nein. At this point in time I admire their lifestyle more than what the west has come to. I go to Abu Dhabi - I see in it a healthy traditional society, where people know their place and there are some common values binding them. I go to Prague and there's an immigrant shoving crack in my hand at every other corner, people getting dead drunk in the street - picking up whomever they're gonna screw next in a nightclub. The problem with everything "good" about Islam is that it applies only to muslims, the rest of us can either become that or get our throats cut. That starts to happen when they become the majority anywhere. I draw your attention to the permanent warfare of the islamic north africa (Sudan) against the christian and animist blacks of the south. Killings, cleansing, forced conversions - a daily occurrence. I draw your attention to Lebanon, and the constant pressure on the christian minority to assimilate. I draw your attention to the copts in Egypt, a christian minority that's daily under attack. Why are all the christian churches in northern africa and middle east surrounded by high walls and barbed wire? Wherever Islam is a majority you get slow cultural and religious genocide - it doesn't take much knowledge of history to see this. Your mistake is thinking that they're your pet monkey that you can train to "behave". They're not. They haven't changed much for a thousand years, except for ever expanding outward. Do your homework, instead of using your partially assimilated, well spoken and behaved neighborhood "Hassan" as an example of type. He is not. The driving force and decision makers behind everything in the 1.6 billion strong Islamic world is the clergy and they're fundamentalist as a rule. They interpret reality for the masses, choosing it for them. And to them, you barely qualify as a human being if you're christian and an abomination if you're atheist.

If Westerners had any brains, they wouldn't be self-destructing, would they? You're bitter. I like you. The sad thing with this downward spiral is that even without immigrants, Islam, or any "other" you'd care to mention or blame - things would still stay on course because all the crap is all ultimately done and decided by "our" political elites. I remember sitting in a cafe in Abu Dhabi and watching the masses pass by - and of the people I saw, the euro/us/aus were the worst dressed (worst in the sense - inappropriate), least well behaved and stood out like juveniles among grownups. I had a friend tell me similar but equally bad stories from his visit to Thailand. Its embarrassing when you remember that being a european/american once included carrying yourself with a certain amount of dignity.

Why is it that they don't marry with other immigrant residents if there are so many of them? 'coz there's no welfare in the "old country". And what do you people get out of this? More ways to spend out tax money. But yeah, it's less of a religion based thing, and more related to a general cultural thing. I'd say that kurds have assimilated a lot better than, say, the somalis. Kurds have a strong entrepreneurial spirit, so even if they mostly keep to themselves, they're strongly motivated to learn the language and have a great respect for education and working hard. Means that if they occasionally kill girls who go out with local guys, they still cause a lot less mayhem than those who consider spending your days chewing khat the best thing ever. Dunno, it seems kinda ludicrous to allow everyone to bring their illiterate, dark ages aunt to the party. Although I've seen british women on TV marrying hindu men for cash so they could come to the UK. Don't see the point of a law that you can avoid so easily. I still don't see the purpose of all this. Its not as if europe needs any more cheap labor, if there are so many immigrants hanging about doing nothing.

Why is it that they don't marry with other immigrant residents if there are so many of them? 'coz there's no welfare in the "old country". And what do you people get out of paying welfare for third world citizens?

Why is it that they don't marry with other immigrant residents if there are so many of them?

Explain this to me please.

You can laugh, but people are inherently attracted to strict moral codes - if they lack one they often gravitate towards it. I believe, though I can't find the stats that Islam has the most converts in Europe of all the major religions.

I concur that the problem aren't the muslims themselves but the "head in the sand" multiculturalism propagated by EU politicians.

I was talking about immigrants causing terrorism. The article doesn't actually say what this "terrorism" consists of and what the nationality/religion the majority of them belong to. Many of these, like separatist movements are confined to one or two countries. Some, like the anarchists more often engage in property destruction than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if nationalist attacks (like skinheads) on immigrants were also classified as terrorism. As terrorism goes I don't see any world spanning organizations except Islamic ones. But even the most hardcore right wingers don't see Islam as a threat militarily or through terrorism, (after all terrorism isn't very far reaching) but through demographics/unchecked immigration* (mostly) and ideology (to a lesser extent). As is plain, for every 2 ethnic Norwegians approximately 15-20 muslims are born in Norway. Obviously, there are a lot more Norwegians so the number of Norwegians born still exceeds all minority groups combined, but in the long run its a losing game. The 1.8 Norwegian fertility isn't high enough to sustain the native population.

My experiences with it are slight. As a small and poor country we were not targeted for mass immigration. The only substantial number of immigrants is our "chinatown" which hasn't been a source of any major trouble. However the same self whipping approach is accepted by our political elites regarding matters of vital national interest. They're ignoring the rise of fundamentalism in one borough with a substantial muslim population, spouting the same multiculturalist rethoric in the case of Kosovo (to disguise the fact that they want to let the issue go down the drain) etc. The problem is not the muslims per se, its the ideology of multiculturalism and its proponents that's making them untouchable. It has become perverse to the degree that I can, in the news, hear anti-serbian, pro-separatist attitudes from muslim leaders (in that borough) - some of them borderline treason. On the other hand, anyone with a nationalistic platform gets jailed instantly. Some cultures are fully able and willing to assimilate. Others like for example the chinese, don't assimilate but don't cause trouble either (obviously there is crime but its not ideologically motivated). It is only the Islamic immigrants that: 1. fail to fully assimilate and, 2. participate in terrorism When is the last time you heard of a Hindu or Chinese, or a Polish immigrant planning a religiously motivated bombing attack? Yet... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-20...ood-attack.html @Grom: I will not accept it not being open to discussion. If its not open to discussion, its no different from any dogma you care to mention.

Multiculturalism isn't a topic that is open for debate in europe. Anyone and everyone from the right who attempts to honestly criticize and suggest change is branded a nazi/skinhead/racist/bigot/islamophobe. The only political "right" is a sort of center option that is more or less the same as its liberal counterpart, and that option doesn't question squat. There is a systematic persecution of conservatives, in the form of media censure and negative stereotypical branding. Academicians and respectable people have been shoved under the rug whenever they dare mention Islam. A few more outspoken people have even been killed. I have myself watched fundamentalist wahhabis mingle among regular believers without a single sign of disapproval on their part. The very same wahabis were later arrested on charges of terrorism. Therefore I have drawn the logical conclusion that the majority will never accept the basic tenets of european civilization. But ultimately that is a western problem for westerners to solve. What I do care about is the fundamentalists occupying a fifth of the territory of my country - a key territory at that. This is unacceptable. For this quasi state to cave in, US/NATO patronage must be withdrawn. The same applies to Bosnia, whose breakup is desirable for the best of all involved. Which is why I will support any and all options that will go toward changing public opinion on the issue of multiculturalism. Any and all options that have a chance of working, of which Breivik is obviously not a part. In fact, to my cause, he's a disaster. But that changes nothing about the obvious and deep flaws of multiculturalist dogma and the repeated self flagellation of enforced political correctness. It is not the basis for a healthy inter civilization relationship.

You might want to try: http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T-Fligh...2158&sr=8-1 Its cheap and pretty well made. Thrustmaster has some really respected high end stuff as well. Saitek has been slacking off. Some of the Cyborg series sticks come apart after days of use, I'm reading complaints left and right.

I wanted to buy that as well but I ran out of cash.

Its curious how every anti Islamic attitude is automatically dismissed as fear mongering and hate fueling without being addressed at all. You never actually get to hear what these attitudes are in detail, and when you do its some butchered skinhead version a child could sneer at. The supposedly serious (I say supposedly because I haven't read it yet) right wing studies of Islam like Serge Trifkovic's "Sword of the Prophet: Islam; History, Theology, Impact on the World " are never brought up while the most retarded of the right wing camp are routinely given enough media time to make fools of themselves.