BruceVC

Woah, sorry Walsie but I have no idea what this means in relation to flags? ROFL. Wrong thread. Okay good, I thought " its not often I completely don't get what someone is saying "

Woah, sorry Walsie but I have no idea what this means in relation to flags?

You poor stupid bastard. You're ****ed now.

Good points raised so far boys, good points. As I tend to mention fairly regularly I really enjoy these forums as I always get an interesting perspective

I will tell you guys another major issue we are seeing in South Africa and that's Xenophobia we see as a result of the social conditions and the number of immigrants. Firstly it is not fair and is not justified but its a reality we see in poor area's in South Africa. We have very lax border controls with our neighbors and due to the political instability in countries like Zimbabwe we have close to 1 million Zimbabwean nationals living in South Africa alone. This excludes the huge numbers of Somalians, Mozambicans and other groups of people from Africa who come looking for a better life. These groups of foreigners are generally industrious and hard working and end setting up shops in townships and making a good living. But we have huge numbers of unemployment so every year we will see incidents of Xenophobia against these immigrants where they get blamed for taking jobs and not wanting to become part of South African society. Personally I think this is unwarranted and these attacks are more by criminal elements. This violence is perpetuated by the impoverished people in our country against foreigners and another attack happened this week http://za.news.yahoo.com/shops-looted-diepsloot-052339610.html

Hi All This topic is a spin-off of the discussion we were having around the Swastika and there are several points I would like to discuss for those interested. I would like to start with the Confederate Flag and people using it in the USA. On my previous forum there was this heated discussion around whether it was racist and divisive. There were several people on that forum from the South in America who I know were not racist and said the Confederate flag represented history, others claimed it was racist. So what does the Confederate flag represent to you? What do you think if someone is wearing a shirt with it on and is sitting in a restaurant that you are eating it?

You know how we like to jump around on topics on these forums

Hitler is long dead. It's time to reclaim the symbols that his regime perverted instead of engaging in Politically Correct self-flagellation. Go, Finland! No. Just no. Hitler was a gigantic monster, and the swastika is a symbol of that. It should continue to remind us of how important it is to be vigilant against evil. You also still have extremist groups using it to spread their hateful messages. Political correctness has nothing to do with it. If there was some big Buddhist movement to reclaim the symbol, I might get behind that. But I doubt you are Buddhist. I agree with Hurlshot on this one, there is too much negative association historically and currently with the Swastika for it to be anything but a symbol of fascism.

COD: WW1 would be cool

I lol'd.. Then I serious'd. Yeah it was quite funny

Need to clean out the inbox, old son. Will get on it tomorrow. No time now. okay

Walsie I'm trying to send you a PM but it says you can't receive any items?

Yeah, "necklacing" was a terrible way to die and a method of executing people who were considered traitors to the various people who fought against Apartheid. Its not used anymore of course You take a car tire and fill it with petrol, you then put it around the person who you want to kill while they are alive. The tire is lit and the person burns alive as the tire slowly consumes them with flame and hot rubber. As I mentioned a barbaric and excruciating way to die

Well said my friend, you have summarized my post nicely And they say Lawyers tend to over-complicate things

Lephys my friend you are getting it, first minor distinctions in male and female characters then we move to chainmail bikini's...and then Romance\Sex for the party members. Everything about PE will start feeling okay at this stage. Welcome to my world

In South Africa during Apartheid conscription was rigidly enforced. And if you were unluckily enough to be conscripted in the late 1970's and 1980's you could be sent to South West Africa ( now called Namibia) or the border between Namibia and Angola where you fought Cubans, Russians and Africans that were aligned with Communist ideology. It was a real war and this had a serious detrimental mental impact to many people long after there military service was finished. The problem is that Conscription is fine when a real threat faces your country but in the case of South Africa it was used as a way to enforce Apartheid, which was a morally reprehensible reason. So after Apartheid ended many people now questioned what they had spent up to 10 years fighting for. At least in the USA the veterans are still seen as heroes and are treated with respect. One more important point about South African conscription is that South Africa also played a big part during the Cold War by preventing the spread of Communism through Southern African. So its military efforts weren't just about keeping Apartheid in place. So I am only in favour of conscription if the country faces a real external threat or absolutely needs additional manpower for an important foreign deployment .

I am impressed, but I don't tend to over-analyze things in such an early stage of development. But I am still waiting for those first artistic interpretations of the much loved and ubiquitous chainmail-bikinis that we will see in PE I suppose we will see them later in the updates?

I don't think anyone thinks you are anti-Turkish, you are merely giving your honest perspective I do feel that any country needs to take historical responsibility for its actions. Or at least accept they did it. For example European countries are constantly reminded of Colonialism. They don't deny it. Turkey needs to do the same especially when the evidence around the genocide of the Armenians is irrefutable. And for the record I consider Turkey a very important secular, Muslim country in the region. But they still need to accept what they did during WW1

Always be prepared to accept failure when asking a lady out. Its normal and shouldn't deter you from asking anyone else out afterwords even if the date is a disaster. You should bring Tommy with you to the restaurant you go to, that would show your commitment to our four legged friends

I haven't read the thread, but I felt that I had to respond to this. I have nothing against Muslims in general. I have Muslim friends, I work with Muslim kids and I like them. But, I will always have a problem with Muslims like these. I come from a village that was almost wiped out by Muslims on several occasions. I guess you have read about what the Turks did with the Armenians and Assyrians? We migrated to Sweden because we simply couldn't live in our country simply for not being Muslims. Both countries we lived in had the same problem. When I see stuff like this, it reminds me of my family's past. We came to Sweden with barely nothing. My parents had to work their asses of to make it over here. I can tell you from personal experience that what you saw there is a regular thing in the Middle East. My friends' cousin was beheaded because he's not a Muslim. His head was delivered to his parents house. Tell me that isn't ****ed up. We got away from that **** and now it is following us to Europe. I don't mind living with Muslims, what scares me are the fundamentalists that want US to change. When I condemn these people and the way I do it, I think I have some God damn valid ground to do so. I have 2 Turkish friends and we often discuss politics, its bizarre but dispute the fact they are very well informed they both refuse to accept what the Turks did to the Armenians during WW1. They almost deny it happened or claim the massacre was exaggerated. What I do get them to accept is that if Turkey admits compliance in the genocide then Turkey would be expected to pay reparations. So maybe thats why Turks generally deny the Armenian genocide?

I agree that was a very informative post, thanks Rostere

Okay. I see now, it makes a good point

Snatched from another forum. I thought that the perspective was interesting. This can't be a real movement, I have never heard of them before?

That does sound fun and spontaneous, nice one

Actually I have. Was working at a bookstore and had tons of book to read. You are right that the tone is different. The Koran is much more direct, commanding and strict in tone. But the general underlaying basics are the same. It's not a stretch to think the muslims and christians basicly worhip the same God, but under a different name and in different ways. Really what people in the west ignore is that Christianity has been systematically driven out of society by various factors and is no longer the force it once was. Islam wasn't. When I was in Abu Dhabi there were 100+ channels of people reading the Koran 24/7, people prayed regularly 5 times per day, and people of other faiths had to adhere to things like the Ramadan, by going to segregated places in restaurants to eat. In other countries european women have to go out covered in public. That's all fine - its their god given right. But if someone tried to enforce similar Christian practices in Europe, theoretically, the outcry would literally blow the heavens. Okay so we're more "progressive" - we don't need that anymore. But where's the parity and mutual respect? Why can't others in muslim countries enjoy the exact same freedoms as everyone else does in europe? I had some coptic (egyptian christian) friends here in Belgrade and they often told me how difficult life was for them in Egypt on account of religious persecution. I see it as very one sided. We have discussed similar topics to this before and I agree with some of what you are saying. As you know I travel to the Middle East (ME) for work and have personal experience in how certain ME countries operate Firstly what you are saying should be obvious to any person who has studied the political machinery of ME countries. Most ME countries are not Democracies and don't have freedoms like religion, press and womens right. And despite improvements I don't think they ever will. So you are correct that Western countries are more equatable and fair societies So now the question is what does this mean to us Westerners or rather what can we do about it? Well you need to accept that in order to do business in those countries you need to abide by there rules and conservative values. Its not that hard and thats just the way it is. However I firmly believe we have every right to believe that our Western values and ideological views are superior to countries and governments that don't follow Democratic principles. Now as far as immigration is concerned to Western countries people need to learn to assimilate to the country they want to immigrate to. Obviously they would keep there own religion but they should learn the local language and cannot practice archaic customs like forced marriages or discriminate against gay people. If they can't accept that then they should be deported. I don't see this as unreasonable if you want to live in a foreign country?