BruceVC

But those arent the same examples of how anyone should or could respond because you generally post video's of things you find interesting and you feel would be interesting to the forum. But you never know For example I thought the yellow vest movement was abuse of the principles of protests and they adopted a violent way of trying to stop change or demand change ....they should have arrested more people in the beginning but I am not certain what the best response would have been ? Protest in the USA? What protests in the USA as their are protests all the the time. But the point being I consider the Moscow violence much more interesting than the other two examples at this moment .....so Gromnir in fact took a calculated guess what story is relevant and I agree

Your post has some really complex and important questions that still need to be satisfactorily answered around Trumpism and the good and bad of it in the last 4 years. People are discussing these things and we will some good reports and studies coming out But just to quickly address HoonDings comment, its always provides some entertainment for some, and in the examples of China and Venezuela a pointless "self-justification " for their own systems of often criticized ,flawed or failed government policies ,to laugh at this type of outcome that we saw during Trumpism. Unfortunately certain criticism around the Trump presidency and how it ended are valid so the QAnon interest is understandable but not for the reasons Hooding posted Of course if you genuinely wanted to know if the statement is true its patently not true. The lady was not elected to Congress because of a lack of education. It was ideological and she was supported by Trump and that was enough. Any views or logical precedents that discuss the facts about movements like QAnon are almost impossible to have in the normal way we understand any ideological movement because the core QAnon manifesto doesn't make any sense on a level normal of understanding. Its based on a combination of conspiracy theories, political dichotomy , irrational and rational bias and the one common Trumpism thread that hopefully is gone Some people who supported Trump decided to create their own reality of events and how certain things work in the world. Trump made things worse but he cant be blamed for what people decided to think was the truth and how the ability to do research and analysis suddenly failed for them And part of this believing in misinformation and " alternative facts " was partly due to how various news channels frame certain political decisions or realities. But all citizens in any society that has things like freedom of speech and freedom of information you are not suppose to accept and believe everything automatically you see in the media .....unless it obvious its true We live in an amazing time, this is the greatest era of mankind where so many things have improved yet you see people refusing to be subjective or rational about things and deciding " I will only believe what Trump says " or in the case of QAnon they see false signs and have unproven views on events that can be understood through a normal analysis of the event So going back to one of your points, was QAnon inevitable ? Groups like this exist in basically every country in the world already but there presence is normal seen on the Internet. Under Trumpism something went wrong with how these groups are suppose to function....they are not suppose to think "Internet echo chamber " logic and outcomes can easily translate into how the RL operates Its not the same in many cases. So in summary Trumpism gave them a false agency where their vacuous and generally uninformed opinions suddenly became " real " And then to make things worse many of these groups suddenly made Trump a foundation as part of their own beliefs and motivations ..yet Trump had no real interest or understanding of the different groups that made him their inspiration. He was only concerned really if these groups supported him and some of his own views Trump was actually somehow giving hand signals for QAnon in numerous public events he attended and he apparently instructed people to attack the Capitol....very hard to prove that legally ? One solution to this is relatively simple, people who were part of the misinformation need to go back to how most of us rationalize things. You base your opinion from multiple sources and you apply common sense to how we understand things. For example if you dont have a a degree in a subject and no institutional experience in that field what you can learn only from the Internet can really be limited and you may know certain technical aspects of a subject but are you the right person to argue with a doctor about mask wearing during a pandemic ? That is what some mask denialists did in many states in the USA around their views that masks were a political statement

Your post has some really complex and important questions that still need to be satisfactorily answered around Trumpism and the good and bad of it in the last 4 years. People are discussing these things and we will some good reports and studies coming out But just to quickly address HoonDings comment, its always provides some entertainment for some, and in the examples of China and Venezuela a pointless "self-justification " for their own systems of often criticized ,flawed or failed government policies ,to laugh at this type of outcome that we saw during Trumpism. Unfortunately certain criticism around the Trump presidency and how it ended are valid so the QAnon interest is understandable but not for the reasons Hooding posted Of course if you genuinely wanted to know if the statement is true its patently not true. The lady was not elected to Congress because of a lack of education. It was ideological and she was supported by Trump and that was enough. Any views or logical precedents that discuss the facts about movements like QAnon are almost impossible to have in the normal way we understand any ideological movement because the core QAnon manifesto doesn't make any sense on a level normal of understanding. Its based on a combination of conspiracy theories, political dichotomy , irrational and rational bias and the one common Trumpism thread that hopefully is gone Some people who supported Trump decided to create their own reality of events and how certain things work in the world. Trump made things worse but he cant be blamed for what people decided to think was the truth and how the ability to do research and analysis suddenly failed for them And part of this believing in misinformation and " alternative facts " was partly due to how various news channels frame certain political decisions or realities. But all citizens in any society that has things like freedom of speech and freedom of information you are not suppose to accept and believe everything automatically you see in the media .....unless it obvious its true We live in an amazing time, this is the greatest era of mankind where so many things have improved yet you see people refusing to be subjective or rational about things and deciding " I will only believe what Trump says " or in the case of QAnon they see false signs and have unproven views on events that can be understood through a normal analysis of the event So going back to one of your points, was QAnon inevitable ? Groups like this exist in basically every country in the world already but there presence is normal seen on the Internet. Under Trumpism something went wrong with how these groups are suppose to function....they are not suppose to think "Internet echo chamber " logic and outcomes can easily translate into how the RL operates Its not the same in many cases. So in summary Trumpism gave them a false agency where their vacuous and generally uninformed opinions suddenly became " real " And then to make things worse many of these groups suddenly made Trump a foundation as part of their own beliefs and motivations ..yet Trump had no real interest or understanding of the different groups that made him their inspiration. He was only concerned really if these groups supported him and some of his own views Trump was actually somehow giving hand signals for QAnon in numerous public events he attended and he apparently instructed people to attack the Capitol....very hard to prove that legally ? One solution to this is relatively simple, people who were part of the misinformation need to go back to how most of us rationalize things. You base your opinion from multiple sources and you apply common sense to how we understand things. For example if you dont have a a degree in a subject and no institutional experience in that field what you can learn only from the Internet can really be limited and you may know certain technical aspects of a subject but are you the right person to argue with a doctor about mask wearing during a pandemic ? That is what some mask denialists did in many states in the USA around their views that masks were a political statement

Nooooooooo Gothfuscious dont do it......as Gromnir sometimes says " dont go down this rabbit hole " I like Comrade but I also realized about 3 months ago that his core ideological views are not consistent with the reality of those views Its not a big deal but in a world where most people raise points and then can generally back them up with examples and historical precedent you may get frustrated with some of his comments as they will seem to be incongruous Personally I think he says certain things just to get a reaction, from people like me , in a well meaning way so its not really trolling I am only mentioning this because some people dont enjoy debating with people who are being disingenuous, haven't done any research and make generalizations or false statements. But I dont have mind having ostensibly inane debates if I have time because sometimes you can still learn something new or get a different perspective that adds to overall understanding. Also truly pointless debates are rare on this forum, I often learn new things even if its something small for most members. I think the only person I learnt very little from on this forum was Oby ? I wonder what happened to him

This is a worrying post Gorthfuscious, I need time to ruminate on it

Yeah, very sad. I just saw this and was going to make the same post He was a legend and he did more than 50k interviews. Larry King RIP

This is a good post and echoes some of my personal experience and some of the generational legal battles my family in SA and the UK have had with government around this unreasonable tax

Gfted1 I seriously think you should run for president, I would vote for you Inheritance Tax has got to be one of the immoral and unethical taxes in existence, in SA thank goodness we have fought off most attempts of government to take more money from bereaving families so we basically just have an estate tax https://www.sashares.co.za/inheritance-tax-south-africa/#gs.rh2y1r It should be outlawed globally because it just demonstrates insensitivity and avarice from any government wanting to enforce it and " how much you must pay when your parents or other siblings die " Im surprised more people on this forum arent outraged by it ?

Geez you lucky, I have no DIY skills...nothing sadly, so I always pay artisans and tradesman to do any work related to DIY or home services like plumbing You very lucky, you definitely come from " white, male privlidege "

Okay, sorry I didnt get it. Now that you have explained what Gorthfuscious meant it is clever and funny I dont get much humor on the Internet unless its obvious I must correct you, no rich person has gained or sustained their wealth on wages alone. And even if we will naturally disagree on the definition of "being rich " I still have never seen this

Last night I went for an early braai\barbeque at my sisters new house , it was great seeing my Cpt family again because we have been avoiding each other since Xmas because of the increased virus spread in SA Her and her boyfriend have this couch which is stuffed with only down duck feathers....on my hat !! I have never felt such a comfortable and soft couch in my life. I could sleep the rest of my life on this couch

The thing is I dont think your life sucks that badly because you know the things you can can do to change certain realities but you decide not to do them,....so things cant be too bad

Really? What examples of corruption did QAnon uncover that were not well known or already established as examples of corruption I genuinely want to know so at least in the future when these debates come up I can use them as examples of " but Qanon did say this or do this that was true " Who are you referring to that is their recognized leader and has acknowledged it? Because Trump has never publicly said this so Im not sure who you mean?

I wouldn't classify it as a cult by the normal definition because a cult needs at the least a leader that is part of the cults views and purposes. Like the Branch Davidians in WACO I dont think Trump has ever accepted any kind of leadership role in QANON which would make it an unusual cult? So what would you define QAnon as? That is a difficult question actually due to their overall vacuous views and nebulous leadership structures I would say they a movement created on the basis of mostly misinformation and conspiracy theories. But how do you classify a movement that has objectives and goals that cannot be realized as these objectives are based on fantasy? So I just call QAnon a "fringe movement with confusing and illogical views whose members have willingly decided to embrace ignorance as a way of understanding events in the USA " Thats probably the best way to describe them?

It is one of my drinks, that and Brandy

One of our government spokesmen has died of the virus, he was good guy and did his job well and his death is all over the news and local media and it made me think about something. Why is he really getting so much attention, thousands of South Africans have died from the virus and thousands more are going to die because of a variety of factors but primarily we lacked the resources and the failure of government to deal effectively with the virus and the spread But the spokesman who died wasnt a president or captain of industry. He was just a spokesman and known in our media but what makes his life more important than anyone else? What justifies all this attention? Am I being unreasonable or do I have a valid point ?

Why arent you in a hurry? In SA we have also mishandled the procurement of the vaccines ....we literally only this month and late December started negotiating with global pharmaceutical companies so naturally we at back of a large queue of countries And the virus is spreading exponentially in SA and to make things worse we have a deeply flawed and inconsistent public sector hospitals so you find for about the last 15 years some public sector hospitals are almost dysfunctional ..here is an example https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-06-08-what-i-saw-there-was-shocking-union-on-hospital-treating-covid-19-patients/ The only viable solution to stopping the virus in SA is the vaccine so when I hear the good news that other countries, like Serbia, have access to something that is literally life changing, in regards to the virus spread , like numerous vaccines I am surprised you wouldnt be in a rush to take it and get your life to return to normal ?

Malc that sounds very worryingly socialist ....never forget socialism has led to various carcasses of countries littered throughout the world that are products of failed socialist experiments. You dont want to end up like Venezuela or Zimbabwe " Better dead than red "

But they can make it, never forget that. It all depends on their degree or further education and hard work

He got you there Gfted1

I agree, the mishandling of the pandemic by Trump was the main contributing factor that allowed Biden to win

Im not sure what you mean by that KP....but it sounds ominous 💰💰

Gromnir he makes some valid points, handouts are not a sustainable solution We have a massive problem in SA where 31 % of the population live on social grants and its creates a massive drain on our already stretched fiscus and weak tax base https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/how-many-people-receive-social-grants-south-africa-sassa/

You Austrians are cheeky ...you know that right

GD I think you should give it a go, I have always thought you could be a hot women Also in life you cannot truly say you dont like something until you have tried it ?