BruceVC

Oh no I am not obsessed at all, I am responding directly to what people say. The original ANTIFA was a valid movement that fought against Fascism. But Fascism has a real definition, like White Supremacy, and its unhelpful to throw the word around if its not Fascism or the context is not the same The definition of fascism is " Fascism is a set of right-wing political beliefs that includes strong control of society and the economy by the state, a powerful role for the armed forces, and the stopping of political opposition " https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/fascism The US government is not a fascist government and the objectives of BLM and ANTIFA dont target real fascism. ANTIFA nowadays claims to believe violence is acceptable to target violence by white supremacists and right wingers. These groups dont control the USA because the USA is a Constitutional Democracy So its incorrect to say " Antifa exists to combat Fascism, we are at war " because anti-BLM protests and right wing influence is not the same as a real Fascist government and the USA is not at war with Fascism internally. This is hyperbole I am surprised you would ever justify the violence we see from ANTIFA based on the reality of what we see in the USA ?

This is a very good point and pertinent, the response to BLM and Antifa sometimes leads to a harsher response and laws being implemented depending who is in power in each state and creates unnecessary fearmongering. It galvanizes and creates support for more rightwing views from normal citizens who normally wouldnt support such outcomes like Federal security forces being deployed in places like Portland and it becomes justified for many people when you see months of protracted violence

This is where I agree with you about all our countries becoming like China. If the USA was like China the authorities would make sweeping arrests with no evidence and trials necessary and all ANTIFA activists can be arrested and vanish into reeducation camps like what is a happening to the Uighur Muslims in China Problem solved, no more Antifa to irritate us and perpetuate violence. Society would be more peaceful and their would be less disruptive protests hiding behind this pesky thing called " freedom of speech and freedom of protest " So Comrade we do have things in common ....I always try to see the constructive aspects to the other side in a debate

Great topic Gromnir and one worthy of debate because this discussion around " woke supremacy " is something we see in most of our countries as it manifests itself in different forms and causes different degrees of consternation, disruption and irritation Firstly I dont think you should or can compare true white supremacy with the term " woke supremacy " because the former is historical, global and does exist and has real structures in certain countries. Its not common but its real and the real white supremacists have appalling ideological views that we should all reject Sadly the term white supremacy gets horribly abused nowadays, often for example "woke supremacists " have an issue with a development or ruling around alleged police violence the accusation is " this is because of white supremacy ". So we should all stop using certain words to describe everything and anything because it looses its effectiveness and meaning if everything becomes " white supremacy ". Words matter and their is nuance and complexity to why people have views on things " Woke supremacy " can also lead to people like me losing interest or support in certain initiatives because I am not going to support sweeping, biased and or inaccurate generalizations about history, the police or events. This doesnt mean I would ever support the ideological views of white supremacists but I may sometimes be forced to agree with the views on FOX even if our political intentions and goals are different So in closing I dont think its reasonable to compare white supremacy with " woke supremacy " because the latter is not an established ideological movement. It is more of a nebulous group that has various opinions on topics and at times is inconsistent with its own objectives. I have issues with some of the implementation and stated objectives of this group but not all of them But compared to real White Supremacists its not the the same as I have nothing in common with them

Is that the definition of cancel culture now ? Okay got it

Okay I forgive you, I am too fond of you to ever stay disappointed with you for long But yes I do have ancestral ties to the UK going back to when most of my direct family came to SA with the British army to fight the Boers in 1899. Some of them stayed in SA and some went back to the UK after that war. So I do have direct family in the UK who support the UK Monarchy but most of my SA family like the UK Monarchy but we dont have the same connection as my UK family who live in the UK

Exactly my point...so dont be angry with the UK because they have continued to support their Monarchy in a ceremonial role. Its not the fault of the UK Monarchy they are the most famous Monarchy in the world ...its the choice of millions of people around the world who choose to support and follow the UK Monarchy ...blame them

Elerond !!!! What a terrible thing to say, dont be jealous and angry because no one cares or knows about the Finnish royal family Its not the fault of the UK Monarchy that much of the world has an interest in their lives....dont be a hater

You raise a good point, would you recommend we change our laws and systems of government to become like China? I think its a one party state so who should rule supreme in the USA ? I am thinking Republicans but not Trumpism, old school George Bush Republicanism ?

Absolutely but in SA this type of incident is not considered a crime, its a form of entrepreneurship because of all the problems with our economy and people need somehow to have a revenue stream I would advise our friends in the USA to adopt the same policy, then you dont get upset or concerned when you hear about it

I wouldnt be too worried about the various examples of modern flawed socialist policies we see in some countries because you will notice these policies always end up harming the economic trajectory So in other words we dont have to worry about children being taken away because that would mean these socialist polices are working and sustainable ...and they not, they generally end up as epic failures. The biggest problem is the citizens of these countries have to now deal with the broken economic aftermath. Its tragic and unnecessary but this is what happens when societies and governments decide to address " inequality " without following tried and tested prudent free market thinking and interfere in the private sector

I have been meaning to chat to you about your personal views on the rise and collapse of the Brazilian economy. If you interested we must discuss this later when you have time I must say I am shocked Lula is legally allowed to run for president. He was jailed and linked to corruption and wasnt he also linked to the corruption of the state owned oil company Petrobras !!! Or is that Rousseff https://www.britannica.com/event/Petrobras-scandal Also remember for socialists and anti-free market people Brazil use to seen as an example of a "semi-socialist " success under Lula and Rousseff so when rampant corruption was exposed within the so called anti- Capitalist economy people refused to acknowledge it. And Bolsonaro initially won popular support because he represented everything that would fix this.....yet he became a thorough disappointment ....very thorough I am sorry for what you guys are going through, Brazil has the potential to still be the leading economy in South America but yes you do have bad luck with leaders and their respective economic and political policies

Im surprised you would say that Barti, I would have assumed I must be closest to a role model for you? Think how long we have known each other, I have been active on these forums for 11 years, and all the good advice and prudent lifestyle choices you have gained from me ? I would assume its the same for KP, I must have a similar role model position for younger forum members? Dont worry, I am a humble person and dont expect constant recognition

I was about to criticize this post heavily for its lack of patriotism as NZ in part of the Commonwealth but then I read what you said and I agree with most of it

They not, the story is nuanced and complex and you should hear both sides

As long as no-one takes away Jessica Bunny I can live with that

Okay thanks, I would like to know if indeed the Research on Diversity in Youth Literature study was used as reason for the decision But they dont specifically say so in your link and I cant find other sources based on the time I am prepared to spend on this Anyway I appreciate the feedback, I dont have issues with them not publishing these 6 books anymore because I cannot say their decision was based on the biased and anti-white report

Okay well that could change things, if in fact the decision to not publish those books is not based on the biased report than I would need to review my opinion I need to do some research, do you have links that specifically explain "Seuss estate does not cite the 2019 study " or rather do you have links that explain how they came to that conclusion ( yes I am being lazy but if you have done the research it would save time )

No thats not my main argument, you have some of it right but not the main point. I will repeat it again in the interests of clarity and so that other members like Raithe also can understand my view on this Its not just about this specific example of the Seuss Estate but the ongoing principle of conclusions we decide to act on based on reports or information. But if we going to act or change our thinking than the reason, in this case a report , needs to be accurate and not make false conclusions The report commissioned by the Seuss Estate made one serious conclusion that because the author of the books is white and all his main characters are white this automatically translates to white supremacy. And of course this doesn't even remotely mean his books are automatically examples of white supremacy. Anyone of any race can choose to include whatever race he wants in his own fiction stories. This cannot be ignored and immediately leads to questions of the credibility of the entire report. If the report was a witness in a trial and he was on the side of the prosecutors the defense would have a field day and take him to task on the stand because irrespective of what else he said this would impinge on his credibility and entire testimony So my argument is about the credibility of the report and how it made anti-white and biased conclusions even amongst ostensibly valid critique of certain cartoons I only added the Smerconish poll because it represents political centralists and moderate Americans and they share my view. So in other words its not just Conservatives and right-wingers who think this development is unnecessary. You can ignore what the actual sentiment on the ground is and dismiss polling data , its not going to change my main point So I am not arguing " they have no right " , its a private entity and they can do what they like. The argument is based on " how they came to the decision " And its based on a biased report which should concern all of us with its " conclusions " of the Dr Seuss books and the ideological views of the author.

Wormie it seems like you are victim of your own devices ?? Meaning its self-inflicted

This made me laugh but we must be careful to not believe or spread this type of double standards

Raithe I always appreciate your input but I have explained my reasons several times for objecting to this banning/ not publishing and I am not going to repeat them again but you can go back a few threads and see what my objection is

Nah, thats definitely not the reason I am opposed to the banning/not publishing of the books This is just a sweeping generalization and ignores other pertinent concerns

Raithe where are pictures of historical characters in chainmail bikini armor ? We mustn't discriminate now and avoid pictures of important female characters like Red Sonya ? Great reminder by the way on how things have improved with character choice

Heres to all the beautiful and amazing women in our lives. This day matters in the global campaign to ensure the implementation of fair and reasonable gender equality and address some of the real challengers women still face globally I support gender equality so this day is important to me ....I just wish it was a public holiday in SA because I like public holidays