BruceVC

I dont understand what point you making? Aleppo is a city in Syria and thousands of civilians were killed in Aleppo by Russia. Zora said the Russia intervention was legal, I am asking if the killing of civilians is legal because they inextricably connected? Thats not whatsaboutism....thats about the intervention in Syria, they directly connected?

And the killing of thousands of civilians by Russia by their bombing campaign in Aleppo is that also legal ? And just for future reference that is not the definition of whatsaboutism https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/whataboutism-origin-meaning, to quote from the actual definition. Its not where you make an irrelevant comparision. It can be true or irrelevant but its a deflection from the original argument Whataboutism gives a clue to its meaning in its name. It is not merely the changing of a subject ("What about the economy?") to deflect away from an earlier subject as a political strategy; it’s essentially a reversal of accusation, arguing that an opponent is guilty of an offense just as egregious or worse than what the original party was accused of doing, however unconnected the offenses may be.

Zora just be honest, you are not concerned with the legality issue of Russia's numerous military intervention in places like Syria and UN endorsement . Elerond is 100% correct Then we can stop pretending we " outraged " when it comes to past military interventions by the US in places like Iraq and Kosovo which also ignored what the UN thought That works for me, it really does. Russia can invade Ukraine because the economic sanctions by the West will be suitable and comprehensive enough But lets at least try to be consistent when we justify a Ukrainian invasion and lets stop questioning any Western military actions in the future

Thats very normal to not be 100% sure of these types of words because they not " normal " English words but you will find them in the Urban Dictionary and even then when they used their meanings will vary My cousin Paul just sent me some videos and photos of where he is in Brisbane City , he is at a place called Howard Smith Wharves . It looks really festive and people are just socializing and having a good time. I definitely want to go their when I come to Oz which is now only going to be next year because he is coming to SA this year and he has already booked his tickets and accommodation in September

Absolutely I understand what you saying because what I am suggesting is where we would we engage and read what the other person is saying but it cant take too long per post. So for example when @Chairchucker asked " what is CRT about " and Gromnir sent him a 12 year old document that was 120 pages long that is unreasonable and unrealistic for anyone to go through So any links or posts we make shouldnt take longer than 10 minutes to read IMO, like the debate yesterday over the SF school board. It was started and over in 40 minutes and all links posted you could read in 2-3 minutes But more important than that is the actual interest in topics like wokeness and that would be a completely personal choice. So I understand your interests and what you want to spend time on and these types topics are not necessarily them

Do you sometimes enjoy debates and discussions around topics related to wokeness, SJ and SJWism I do but only sometimes, I wouldnt want to have them all the time because I generally dont consider them as meaningful or relevant as debates around geopolitics or economic policy. Because if you enjoy them I would like to have them with you and be honest about what I personally think or believe? On this forum we dont really have many discussions around these topics and thats fine because obviously we all decide what we want to spend time discussing and its normal to not want to debate topic x if you dont have the inclination. Now I can easily have these types of debates endlessly on forums like Codex but these types of debates on Codex tend to be more Conservative and or right wing and its an echo chamber which defeats the point of a debate Let me know if you want to have these types of debates, an example of one type of debate I enjoy is the Whoopi Goldberg comments around the Holocaust. Thats an example of what I mean But if we are going to have these debates can I ask for 2 important " rules " its a debate so we going to have different opinions and thats expected and the intention is to convince the other person your point is correct. Like you pointed out how triggered is inappropriate its not personal so no one should get offended and we mustnt be offensive when we make our points Obviously I welcome all other Obsidian members comments so maybe @Gorth, @majestic, @Elerond. @Zoraptor, @Hurlshot @Gfted1 @Darkpriest @Amentep@Malcador and others can get involved if they want ? And if you dont want to have these debates thats also fine

Thanks but please dont use the word woke, its very offensive in many cultures because it represents racism towards white people and white people being blamed for things that arent true. I think its important on this forum that we all try hard to respect each others personal views and not offend each other Im joking obviously, you can use any words you like when you debate with me. But on a serious note, after you mentioned that the word triggered is linked PTSD I didnt think it was true and I thought you were being a snowflake but I didnt say anything because I like you and I didnt want to offend you further because I like our debates Anyway I looked the word up to confirm and you right, it is linked to PTSD and thats the same definition for the word on dictionaries like Urban Dictionary where much most of the Internet slang and vernacular is defined https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Triggered I consider PTSD a very serious and real condition, I have had gone through it and its not something I would make light of. I thought triggered just meant you " respond to something immediately and emotionally " So thanks for pointing it out because I genuinely wont use it anymore unless its in the right context

GD how is life in Wisconsin compared to Tennessee? Are the people any different, more friendly or less friendly And have you tried any of that famous Wisconsin 10+ year old mature cheddar cheese, you must try it and let me know what it is like...its one of my bucket list items before I die

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/school-board-recall-election-san-francisco-three-members/

Yes but you an ex-Marine, the rest of us are terrified

Are you asking for other links apart from that one and how it was raised on CNN?

Okay but I saw it on CNN and it was discussed on Reality Check by John Avlon and he doesnt repeat any right wing hyperbole but normally criticizes it so its credible https://edition.cnn.com/specials/us/john-avlon-reality-check

Which is one of the reasons I am not going to use that word anymore so thanks for pointing it out But you didnt disagree or comment on the article, you just criticized the word Marxist and the word triggered Whats your view on the article ?

Hoonding thats a terrible thing to say, NATO saved us from the dystopian reality of living in a Communist world You wouldnt have all your nice toys if it wasnt for NATO

Yes you did trigger me because I triggered you because I was triggered by....and so it goes on I tell you what, I am not going to use the word triggered anymore on this forum because I want to avoid these types of responses which end up missing the point of the story which is more important than who triggered who more Happy ?

Just because you mentioned it, its revealing how you wont comment on the story and reality of what happened but only concerned by my choice of the word triggered And it reinforces the observation how some of us comment on the poster and not the post ...thanks for confirming what has already been pointed out

Nah, Marxist school board members is more appropriate. But you can find the same story on numerous websites But you missing the point and getting " triggered " by the words.

https://thekingofstocks.com/2022/02/16/san-francisco-residents-overwhelmingly-vote-to-recall-three-far-left-school-board-members/ I saw this on CNN so its not Fox news hyperbole but liberal San Francisco has recalled 3 school board members for focusing too much on progressive left ideology like wanting to change the names of 44 school names in the district. To quote that article San Francisco voters overwhelmingly approved a vote to recall three far-left school board members for putting toxic politics ahead of reopening schools. “The voters of this city have delivered a clear message that the school board must focus on the essentials of delivering a well-run school system above all else,” Mayor London Breed said in a statement after the vote. “San Francisco is a city that believes in the value of big ideas, but those ideas must be built on the foundation of a government that does the essentials well.” The recall effort started in January 2021 after the Marxist school board members were busy working to rename 44 schools that honored historical figures like Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and George Washington rather than focusing on reopening schools. This is an important development and hopefully sends an important message about priorities and what matters and its not about CRT so need for anyone to get triggered @Hurlshot Not sure what you think about this but its in your state?

Well yes but you dont use the public healthcare unless you dont have medical aid. I cant stress that point enough The private sector healthcare is well managed and works but their are a long list of horror stories about bad service in PS healthcare but its free and available to everyone for certain services, not all

Just to add to this, in Libya NATO helped prevent a massacre civilians in the town of Misrata with their intervention. Without NATO Gaddafi would have happily killed about 50k civilians who were trapped in the town https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Misrata_(2011)

Sure, but I was referring to the criticism that the West has been involved in bombing campaigns and thats why we cant trust NATO. We also cant trust Russia to not be involved in bombing campaigns and Chechnya is just one example

No thats not how 30 million South Africans live but nice try. Its insensitive to live in a first world country and think that is how all people who live in poverty live. But I suppose NZ does have its own issues like KFC smuggling cartels so I shouldnt be dismissive You right, the 46 % isnt homeless. Its complicated and their are different levels of state support and social programs that assist this 46% to survive. I support most of these social programs in SA because some of the poverty is directly linked to Apartheid legacy and if it wasnt for these programs their would be many South Africans living in worse poverty like you see in many other African countries Also what Zora is talking about is not how most of the 46% live, he is referring to what we call squatter camps and they examples of the worst kind of squalor outside of homelessness Many of the 46% are recipients of free housing called RDP (reconstruction and development ) houses by government. These houses are small 2-3 bedroom places that arent great but better than corrugated iron shacks. Then we provide reduced rates for electricity and other services around what we call " indigent services". Also government provides free public sector healthcare and free public sector schooling in most cases. Unfortunately some of these public sector intuitions are not well run or administered so sometimes you find kids getting to grade 12 with a subpar education and they unemployable. Also in the townships you can buy food and goods generally cheaper compared to what we would pay for food and goods from the malls and supermarkets Then we have a real and growing black middle class and they actively participate in what we call colloquially " black tax "and this is where most black people from the middle class and up help their family members financially. This an example of the kindness and humanity you see in SA https://www.justmoney.co.za/news/2018/03/01/understanding-black-tax/ So that is how the 46% survive in most cases, I hope this answers your question because it is a good question and one that matters?

Yes inflation is the potential risk as I mentioned and its a real concern as we can see with the factors that have contributed towards the current global inflation which is more about the lockdowns and the world coming out of the lockdowns but concern with UBI is similar I think the concern with the 1%/10% is well meaning but misplaced as targeting them is not going to fundamentally change the reality on the ground for most people

I watched it and its objective and informative. But it also raises the inconsistencies with Putins views of NATO and how Russia has done everything that he claims is wrong with NATO For example the video mentions something similar to " NATO getting involved in bombing of foreign countries outside its borders " as a reason not to trust NATO Since Putin came to power Russia has been involved in numerous conflicts outside its borders and has been responsible for the death of tens of thousands of civilians in places like Chechnya and Syria through its own bombing campaigns so out of all the reasons for Putin to dislike NATO this must be the biggest contradiction. So basically Putin is saying " I am opposed to NATO getting involved in other countries sovereignty but its okay if I do it " And then the video clearly mentions Putin is concerned with the " cultural influence of countries that join NATO" as its based on Western ideology which is based on things like "Democracy, individual liberty and rule of law " .......seriously that is exactly what I would expect every person on this forum to believe in since all of us live in countries that believe in these things. Whats the alternative? Undemocratic systems and governments that dont believe in the rule of law and order ? By the way talking about videos where is the latest video from the hotties? You know I always agree with the girls so if they said " we dont like or trust NATO and support Russia " I would be immediately convinced

Sarex two wrongs dont make a right, I can understand your apprehension and or mistrust of the West because of how Serbia was treated but the worlds a different place now and the reality of Ukraine is very different to the wars in the Balkans You the only person on this forum whose support of Russia in this Ukraine crisis really makes sense because of the history of how Serbia was treated. I may not agree with the support for Russia but I do understand and if I was Serbian I would probably feel the same way