FlintlockJazz

Welcome to the club! EDIT: fixed quote. Do we get our own clubhouse? Damn, our evil plan isn't working! I mean, um, glad to see you're taking it so well.

No, the actual literal meaning is that there is not a single person who had their expectations met. "Everybody" is a singular pronoun. It just looks like a collective one. Of course, it's incredibly pedantic to point that out, since we all know what Unskilled actually meant (what you say above)... but, technically, he was wrong. You can't say this game DID meet everybody's expectations and you can't say that it DIDN'T meet everybody's expectations. You can say, however, that it did not meet all people's expectations. Yeah, I think I should check into things a bit more before making big posts that are basically wrong. Made an example of how presumption can lead to ****ups myself there.

unskilled-: "What AP did was fail to meet everybody's expectations." Me: "It hasn't failed to meet mine, please quit making statements about my opinions." You: "He said everybody's expectations, not anyone's." As far as I can tell you implied that unskilled- wasn't speaking for me like I claimed he was. Since everybody is every person and I'm a person saying "everybody's expectations" makes it a statement about every person's expectations which includes my own. Since my expectations have been met, his statement wasn't accurate. My entire point is that we should try to avoid sweeping generalizations. I think this is a case of unclear posting causing confusion. Unskilled may have meant 'everybody' in that it didn't meet anyone's expectations, but the actual literal meaning is that not everyone had their expectations met. The literal meaning therefore means that it can indeed meet some expectations it just did not meet all expectations of everyone, so you can have one group of people whose expectations were met perfectly but as long as at least one person didn't then everyone's expectations were not met...but then no game has ever been released in which everyone's expectations were met anyway, so stating it is unnecessary unless of course he did mean that it failed everyone's expectations and so it makes sense that some people will presume that... This is a prime example as to how easy it is to misinterprete someone. EDIT: Argh, people already posted to clear this up, oh well nothing to see here folks.

Cheers dude, that's a cool definition. Trying to define what an RPG can be pretty hard, especially with all the different perspectives, I kinda subscribe to the belief that it should really be an umbrella term for a wide range of mini-genres (action rpg for games like Diablo, JRPG for, well, JRPGs since they are quite different from other RPGs, etc). I've seen some pretty hairy arguments arise from trying to define some games as RPG or not hehe. Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to post your definition for me.

I actually liked Mr Thorton. I know alot of people apparently don't like how effeminate he looks, but in this age of steroid-enhanced rugged Space Marine looks we get with every other character in games I liked Thorton's look (plus I don't really see how he is effeminate to be honest, and considering how they buffed up the male avatars in WoW to Arnie level even when you're playing a mage or blood elf because the players claimed they looked too effeminate I'm not convinced it's me with the skewed perspective, though I am screwy). Sure, he came across as a **** sometimes, especially when he was trying to be suave, but I consider that part of his charm, he is after all meant to be a manipulative person and I love the "Is this guy for real" look you get off Scarlett if you do the suave route.

Did you play as Recruit first time round and then as Veteran or one of the others in subsequent playthroughs? I'm finding that the initial points you get at the beginning as a Vet really do make a hell of a lot of difference for the enjoyment of the first section, though it could just be me knowing what I'm doing this time round. I restarted after getting through the opening and - having some idea of what I was doing and what the skills actually did - magically had a much better opening that I did first time around after recreating my character. Aye, I must admit the first playthrough I didn't spend any ability points at all until I got to Saudi Arabia as I had no idea what to go for. If I had known that you could change them when you choose your specialisation I'd have worried less about how many points I had to spend.

Did you play as Recruit first time round and then as Veteran or one of the others in subsequent playthroughs? I'm finding that the initial points you get at the beginning as a Vet really do make a hell of a lot of difference for the enjoyment of the first section, though it could just be me knowing what I'm doing this time round.

Oo! What was the definition that won? Sorry, no idea and I can't find the thread. Cycloneman won, you could try asking him. Ah no worries, was just curious since I've seen debates over what constitutes a rpg before and was curious to see what a Obsidian dev would consider a winning definition. Cheers.

Oo! What was the definition that won?

I like the sound of that, having the player's lack of choice have an affect would definitely add to the pressure!

I'm sorry but that user is just theorycrafting there. He does not have access to any more sales information than the rest of us, and discounts have been offered for games that have sold well before, hell my collector's edition of ME2 was heavily discounted before release from what I recall. The user admits that the PC version was number 3 in the best sellers list for Play, and tries to wrangle it to indicate that it only did so because it was marked down while the console versions were not given the discount and did not sell so well. I could argue that it was given a discount because Play managed to get more sales on it than it thought and so could afford to give it a discount while the console versions didn't and so they kept them at the high price. We also don't know how many people didn't preorder it but bought it after release, from what I have seen many people held off on it as they were unsure and then bought it later, possibly driving the price down due to lack of confidence only to then find it selling after release, that is still a sale whichever way you spin it. Remember, the publisher still gets the same amount of money per sale regardless what the stores sell them at, so even if all the stores discount the game as long as they sell Sega still makes money. I have not deluded myself into thinking AP will become a blockbuster or even sell that well, but until I see actual sales numbers and profits I will not believe that anyone really has any idea how well it has done (or not done).

The 2 comes from Jim Sterling though. It's mr.'I gave 10 to Deadly Premonition', not exactly someone I would take seriously.. unfortunately Metacritic does take him seriously. Yes, I have heard stories about that guy. Different opinions is fine, but I suspect him of deliberately rating things up or down in order to try and cause a stir to get more traffic. Only really works for people like Yahtzee though, wherein you expect him to tear the game apart and isn't intended as serious, a 'professional' review shouldn't do that.

For me, favourite characters I liked were: Sis Mina Darcy (I actually quite liked his joking nature, and I just love the photoshopped picture in your safehouse!) Heck Omen (cool professional) Favourite characters I hate (as in, brilliant characters that really made you hate them): Leland Marburg (haven't managed to kill him yet, but his smugness made me immediately dislike him) Brayko (I spared him first playthrough since I realised I had been set up, not again though) Award for character that grew on me after initial disinterest: Scarlet, wasn't too impressed with her but gave her a chance since she was a redhead, and her personality grew on me, and the twist! Second playthrough I also took the suave approach on the plane and her eyerolling when you tell her you're a spy is just lolworthy (and one of the best conveyance of emotion via character expression in a game I have seen for a while). Most boring character award: Madison, sorry but she seemed geared up to die pitifully and that's it, and so I let her fulfill her role and, well, die pitifully. Was meh to her, the worse response you can get from me for a character.

Great review, pretty much sums up how I view it! I agree with Malcador as well, its not perfect (what is?) and its not for everyone (like marmite), but a 2? Really?

Loved Heck, a complete delusional sociopath who would be classed as a serial killer in real life but just so damn awesome!

I got given advice on the GOG forums to squint when doing the hacking minigame, and my god does it actually work. Not sure why, but when you squint you can just see the codes so much easier, I was breezing through them (apart from the last ones in Rome like a previous user mentioned, the ones with just 4 digits in, but even then it was doable). I like that there is a chance of failure if you don't do your best, that it does provide a challenge. I also liked the minigames in Alpha Protocol, they actually fitted in my humble opinion.

Yarr, new guy here, first post, just wanted to say that I love this game too, finished it over the weekend and am now on my second playthrough. Will be recommending the game to everyone I think will appreciate it, love the choices and the story, more please!