yorname

Or just some penalty to engaged enemy. Like accuracy or recovery. I feel this is the thing that's not radical but keeps the tank theme. You get benefits when enemies naturally just don't disengage.

Maybe replace AR bonus with a hostile duration reduce? Either passive percentage reduction or -X sec when something something. Latter is better because not duplicate with Mage Slayer imo. It would be quite thematic if all fighters didn't already get push pull immunity in BPM. I feel their identity would be some kind of tank or engage master, but all fighters are eventually unkillable, and they already have several different ways to benefit from engagements. They even already have the ability to pull an enemy close so it's difficult to think of anything to add. It would be cool if a larger engagement distance is possible, but I get the feeling it's not. I'm thinking might affliction immunity + some penalty when using a shield. Like dex or per weakness or a slower recovery. So you can choose to be extra "engaging" with a shield or just have free engagement with other weapons. Maybe too radical.

I think the point of shorter ticks is to make it match the description/intention better, not only dividing it by 3, having 1s between 2 attacks is way more common, in this second the 1s-tick-CW just works normally. In comparison you'll practically never get the original CW to work normally at any moment. Say we have 2 hits/s on average with a party, on 3s ticks CW is doing 6× intended damage, on 1s ticks, CW will do 2× intended damage. Reducing the duration (if keep total damage unchanged) doesn't change "how wrong" it is if I'm not mistaken. The max stack count for a given party is reduced, but total damage per tick is unchanged because damage per tick is proportionally increased. If DoT behavior can't be changed, then probably making it not a DoT at all is the only way to match the description. Though I understand it's probably too far for the goal of BPM

I see. If you factor in the possibility difference of "accidentally" making use of the unintended effect, then a buff is indeed requied.

@Elric Galad I'm for it. I'm not sure if it needs further change because the total damage usually scales over 10, and as I understand it's always better than intended no matter the frequency of other attacks. Maybe? It's hard to tell how strong the intended effect actually would be. @BoeroerI did happen to have such party, but I planned it to make use of how I thought CW works. Maybe that's why I'm feeling it's too good. It is too good than it's intended or it should, I mean it's hard to have your whole party to have an average of 1 attack/s, and that's already tripling the effect. If it does what exactly it says, it can be a good addition to an AOE heavy party (that's what you'd expect from a tier 2 spell right? Situationally good). But the current implementation makes a thematic party into a exploit party, instead of empowering this kind of party, CW becomes the core of the party and is the reason it feels one-note. Like in my party I have a blunderbuss gambit rogue, which is typically pretty good at single target damage, but now he's become a support character. It's impossible to "legitimately" make good use of the intended effect, which could have had a place in certain parties without being the one trick.

That's probably when the fastest caster (cat + dex inspiration) is still not fast enough, because now one character needs to do everything. My experience with sorcerer is that they're very safe and are best on a large battlefield, but for specifically CW, casting all those spells is still slower than wizard's more direct multi-attacks. I didn't even realize CW is this good when I played it, too many spells to cast. Casting 3 of those AOE spells is effectively only 1 tick/s, but costs ~10s to cast. It's probably better when you send a tank to lure the enemy and the sorcerer do all the ground work in stealth.

Considering its requirement on the party (only need one or two companions to help really, and not even very specific in terms of their class), I think it's pretty high on the broken list. Not like the auto-win buttons like SoT/BDD, and pretty limited in terms of usage (bosses only), but I would probably rank it above Effort+AOE, crit chain or most tricks that need crits to work. And I do think it's the best thing a wizard do against bosses. For example against non-megabosses, I usually needed brilliant or got every close to being out of spells as a MC wizard. But with CW not only is it way faster, I also only needa handful of spells. Sorcerer is not very helpful in terms of CW, IIRC they couldn't have more than 1 wall active, and their other AOEs are just okay, not something a wizard can't do. I believe one tick of Venombloom only adds one CW stack, unlike 3 interrupts with energized. The only thing a loremaster helps is energized I think, other stuff are more or less accessible in a normal party as I consider them "general buffs/debuffs". If I'm playing a SC wizard, CW + wall + ray + Missile Salvo is arguably better.

I'm not a big fan of it because compared to tricks with similar power, just landing a spell once against fortitude is still way too easy. Being from a wizard makes it even worse, the character doesn't need to pay anything to be able to do this, so choosing not to do this (against right enemies) is like objectively wrong as a wizard, isn't that exactly the point of OP stuff ruining game experience? Also ironically it makes MC Evoker the worst blaster subclass choice together with Enchanter. You did remind me of penetration issue though, I'm playing a loremaster so it was never a problem. That being said against high AR bosses, wizard don't have many choices anyway, if they want to do damage. The raw damage spells only do like 100-200 damage per cast, other damage spells mostly have similar pen. Maybe Crushing Doom will eventually crit so that's something.

IDK it's pretty broken to me now that I managed to make more use out of it, scales too well in a party. When I think of near-insta-kills that're still possible with BPM, they're usually hard to achieve as enemy stats go up and some even doesn't work against single enemy, but this is too easy to set up compared to e.g. infinite crit chains, and is fully online as early as tier 4. The only real limitations are fire immunity and the shape of walls. I just feel a tier 2 spell shouldn't be able to end boss fights in seconds.

I see. I looked up the discussion on it and found that you also already knew about the chanter invocation scaling issue. I wonder if there's anything to be done to CW?

Yeah this is broken IMO. Saru Sichr has its own problem of infinite chain crits, at least axe attack speed is somewhat limited, factor in Barbaric Retaliation or Heartbeat Drumming it's probably like doubling the ticking speed on average I guess? Good but not ridiculously good. Combusting Wounds has the potential of triggering multiple ticks per second constantly and up to hundreds of damage per tick. All I need to pay specifically is several casts of any wall spells, and one cast of combusting wounds. Other things I may add on top essentially aren't part for this, like blunderbuss attacks are alright on thier own. IMO this is way over the power curve of damage spell in the game, like after a few seconds of walls, every projectile of Missle Salvo can do extra 200 damage (probably, I didn't test this, but I did try Minoletta's Concussive Missiles). The only problem is that only bosses can survive the build-up. My problem is that some of the game-breaking mechanics are at least as written, but this one is just messy implement and has a huge impact. One would assume it should effectively add a fixed amount of damage to each hit from the description.

To give a context, currently, the tooltip shows CW does "8.7 burn damage over 14.3 sec" on my character. If I got it right about how ApplyOverTime works, it should tick every 3s and about 4 damage per tick per stack. The damage part matches what I'm seeing. However when attacked frequently, it ticks way faster. For example CW + Wall of Flame not only adds one stack per second, also forces the damage to resolve each time a stack is added. This means all pervious stacks are ticking at triple speed. It's difficult to nail down the time in the game, but I'm seeing the growing CW damage tick after every small WoF damage. If this speed is normal, then the tooltip is horribly wrong and greatly understates its damage (on top of ApplyOverTime already being confusing). As for the multi-attack abilities, it really depends. For a single target, chanter's Her Revenge counts as multiple hits. Blunderbuss's 4 shots also count as one hit. Repeat effects from evoker or Marux Amanth count as multiple hits, and Eccea's Arcane Blaster + Imbued Ammunition count as 2 hits. I guess any multi-attack that has a delay at all can trigger multiple ticks. This really means CW is a party-defining spell, and can become the most important spell below tier 9 if built around. I started a wizard run to try how high I can reach with Crushing Doom, but it seems so irrelevant now, among all the bosses only that fire dragon and Dorudugan can't be melt in seconds.

I see. I was trying to get highest defense numbers with a hellwalker + fighter or wizard, so I guess most of the "hit self" tricks won't work.

Hmm, imbued ammunition should get PL scaling for auto-attack, losing to Thundercrack and Spearcaster is unexpected, especially the latter, since they have similar damage but pistol should be significantly faster. Are the base rolls more like 8-12, or 12-18 when you tested? I disabled mods then consoled a new one to try, and still got the PL scaling, so I guess it's not because of mod difference. Hunting bows are so sick!

I found that some offensive chanter invocations act weirdly: for example at PL5, when using Her Revenge, I got +4 ACC from ability level (indicating it's AT3), +8 ACC from power level. I knew for some reason it gets a special +2 ACC/PL, but this means it's treated as AT1 at the same time? It's the same for The Shield Cracks for me. They seems to be getting some extra scailing.

A while ago I lose most of my crew after sinking a lot of ships, not knowing why. Turns out when they're downed in combat, even though Berath's challenge doesn't apply, they get injured like party members (not ship combat injuries), and they get cured when consuming food and drink everyday. Thank god they don't need I do a rest. Because of how weak most of them are, fighting multiple ships in a short time can get them a lot of injuries and potentially killed.

I have a small request: Adratic Glow gives "+1 Casts with Level 1 Chanter/Cipher spells" to them , which doesn't seem to do anything. Do you think it should be changed to match other classes, like your Great Soul change but weaker?

Off the top of my head, I can only think about a few: Forbidden Fist, available only to the subclass. Hylea's Talons, only useful for melee builds. Blunderbuss modal, it's kind of too punishing on anything but streetfighter. Are there other relatively short, repeatable and "light" hostile effects can be used to trigger Crucible Of Suffering? Also can it be triggered by losing persistant hostile effects? Like the switching trick with Thundercrack Pistol.

This is why I said you shouldn't believe when tooltip, and you clearly never actually used it, or bothered looking at the combat log. If this is "discussed pretty extensively", I simply have no idea how you guys managed it without actually using it at all, good job. Imbued Ammunition scales with PL/CL, then with might, weapon quality and such, like those tier 0/1 martial abilities like Force of Anguish. Just use it on a lv20 character, you'll see the base roll of IA is roughly between 12-18. (6+15)*1.25 = 26.25 average base damage. And it doesn't graze. As long as the raw hit isn't a miss, IA will proc a hit without checking accuracy vs defenses. Among pistols only Scordeo's Trophy with high stacks of Opening Barrage has a chance of beating it, if Scordeo's Trophy can actually penetrate anything in the late game.

I see your point. It's true most fights aren't that long, so burning zeal to cast it 3-4 times would single handedly win the fight.

I didn't think about that, it's so true. Kind of funny how EAB ended up being BiS because of scaling. I don't even know if it's intended, can't remember if any other weapon's extra attack gets both PL/CL and weapon quality scaling. In a sense it's like spamming those tier 0/1 martial abilities, just not as good, but also free.

I did the calculation a while ago, EAB is simply one of the best. Just don't believe when it says 8-12 and look at the log instead. Also for single target in this thread I don't think I could get the numbers terribly wrong. The red hand is only about the same as EAB, given it doesn't benefit much from crit, with high crit chance it's worse than other listed weapons. Since EAB can be DWed with an attacking shield and has better penetration, the red hand is only useful for double tap.

Hi Elric, I want to talk about SC paladin, not for any changes, just trying to figure out the current design goals for it. I tried a high might hireling for sacred sacrifice, the two reliable and cheap ways to keep the paladin alive are withdraw and healing chain. BDD isn't long enough and the shield kind of get wasted. Withdraw is not good imo, since it basically turns the paladin into a worse freezing pillar. If the paladin stands with exactly one ally, healing chain can be more than enough to keep him alive. I think it's an interesting way to force a specific party formation. I like the change to healing chain, so that paladin has a way to keep himself alive without spending so much time on LoH, or rely on OP stuff like original BDD. Also because LoH has a range of 3m, just a little further than the jumping distance, it's safer to just use healing chain for all the healing needs, so that the current chain doesn't jump away. I think it's quite funny and doesn't need to be changed, the dedication of going SC should be rewarded with something more efficient than LoH. Light of Pure Zeal, I still couldn't figure it out. The new pen seems a bit low, if we go all in on spell damage and use +2 pen food, we probably want SS + HC as well, which is also a zeal drain. All things combined the frequency of using the spell would be pretty low even with brilliant and else, which then punishes using that food. It ends up being a really situational spell that I kind of have to use against fire immune enemies, and still isn't too good for tier 9. Maybe it's actually enough to penetrate those because they all have low frost/lighting AR? Looking forward to run a SC bleak walker when the next update comes

Indeed. Hunting bow is better than all of the weapons listed for single target, as long as the extra (effectively) -10 ACC doesn't result in grazes and penetration isn't a problem. For the warbows if there's a second target to trigger Driving Flight, I guess Frostseeker and Current's Rush also improves drastically, hard to know the exact numbers though.

like speed, penetration is just too hard to calculate for me, writing functions and such. I suspect if underpen is a problem for hits, EAB would have a even bigger advantage.