Not So Clever Hound

Thanks @Boeroer. But then, if I may, where do you draw the line between boring OP-ness vs. genuine, wholesome POE2 fun? To me for instance the line of scrolls replicating/stealing class-defining abilities is clear. It sucks and it shouldn't happen. I like your idea that scrolls should have different effects altogether BTW. But then, would you use Whispers of the Wind with Blunderbuss, although clearly WotW is meant to be a melee trick especially knowing that Blunderbusses are by definition one-shot weapons? How is that different from Deltro's Helmet + Extend Duration? It's totally fine if you tell me "because I like it so " I'm just trying to understand how other players manage this aspect.

@helmino your only path is clearly to go fighter/cleric and hope that the Most Noble Order of the Radiant Heart has a branch in Eora. And that Carsomyr has also made the inter-dimensional trip and eased its class restrictions. And stop trying to romance everybody!

Hey there, I wanted to possibly get your thoughts on 2 points: 1) I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already (most probably) but the upgraded Amra no-drawbacks frenzy proc is great with the Strand of Favor trick for any non-Barb build in the game. Even maybe to barbs. Permanent +25% Action Speed, +5 MIG, +5 CON. 2) I feel like the Strand of Favor + Deltro's Cage Helm + everything else you can think of that is worth extending duration on is somewhat ruining my gameplay now as it is so powerful... so my question is: how do you guys maintain the interest and maybe the discipline to play once you know that Strand of Favor + Deltro's and other strong effects that can be extended are so transformational to the game balance? Do you manage to avoid them, or only use for Ultimate run prep?

I'm totally with you on this. With Persistent Distraction, Deathblows, lots of engagement slots AND the right timing when you cast Ryngrim's, you can of course watch the chunks fly on disengagement but this is more a situational cherry on the cake than a game-changing offensive skill. Ryngrim's is fantastic on its own due to its defensive potential. You can notably cheese a lot of ship-to-ship boarding encounters solo this way (not that they're particularly challenging anyway). EDIT: if only Overbearing Guard wasn't Fighter-specific and/or if there were more active ways to trigger enemy disengagement. I think it has been said before many times but the offensive potential of the disengagement mechanic somewhat feels like a missed opportunity.

I thought so about adra ban but didn't know about sapphires and rubies! It sucks. It should be noted however that certain unique ingredients let you bypass those pesky requirements to enchant to superb/legendary: Kraken Eye, Sea Dragon Scale, Porokoa's Eye, Magma Dragon Gizzard Stone etc. Those are even better used on 2H weapons that would otherwise need double the amount of ingredients to enchant.

Indeed the merchant at the entrance of Serpent Crown sells all kinds of gems, just wait a full day and recheck her inventory if she hasn't got what you need. She should have it eventually. However she might be disappearing after you come back from He Wait's in Fire in the main story, IIRC. The merchant of The treasure Trove /Dunnage also has gems appearing randomly in inventory. You should get what you need there if you wait/check enough times.

Hey @dgray62 I think you're absolutely right, it just depends on what you want to do in the playthrough. Bloodmage and the cheezy associated tactics give you the flex to do anything you might want to do or not in the game including besting Hauani o Whe, with very limited drawbacks if you're playing like a hybrid Assassin. You likely won't be able to kill the big-4 Megabosses with regular Wizard/Assassin but you can take the 3 others (or none of them). Evoker could also be relevant but super restrictive, IMHO not worth it. I like to go Bloodmage because it's just foolproof. If I want to try something very different at some point or if I'm somehow stuck somewhere, a Bloodmage will always have a solution.

Hi @Haplok thanks! A couple thoughts: With all the +CON permabuffs available and of course Berath's Blessings, I found that actually even at minimum CON I could still have about 250 health by end game, which isn't great but not totally terrible either. When I truly need Blood Sacrifice, it's for a fight of attrition anyway so I could still potentially use PotFS + WoD. Regarding Ninagatauth's Freezing Pillar and other pulsing spells, in RTwP they will break stealth/invisibility every time they pulse so for this particular toon I'd rather stick with burst DMG spells - but of course Freezing Pillar is one of the strongest spells in the game. On a side note, I've realized that you can time a Delayed Fireball and a Blackflame for example to explode at the same time while opening from stealth, in which case they can both get the Assassinate bonus (!). Finally with Deltro's Lash and Delayed Fireball I've delivered damage per target in the range I mentioned above, going fully Solo. For the few really hard fights in end-game I totally agree that it's not game breaking but it trivializes a lot of otherwise annoying encounters as you can one or two-shot 99% of enemies. In RTwP it is very strong with a ranged Assassin as this type of character works best with an opening from stealth then 1 or 2 follow up attacks from invisibility before resetting the fight.

Hi @dgray62 absolutely but you can also go full glass cannon with min CON/RES and it works wonders, I'm in the middle of one such playthrough myself . It is extremely powerful, has nice synergies and can clear many hard encounters in mere seconds. For this build Ninagauth Teachings can be very valuable, even if I'm partial to the beloved Vaporous Wizardy grimoire. You can use Blightheart for the generic corrosive lash, or the traditional Magrans Favor + Sun & Moon for Fire/Ice spells. And generally items that will increase your offense such as the High Harbinger's Robes since it's all about maximum offense + stealth/invisibility to survive. Early in the game you will still occasionally use your arquebus and gouging/arterial strike before you are fully stocked on Bloodmage nukes. If you get Deltro's Helmet and use the Strand of Favor trick to prolong a high Lash from Chain Lightning self harm, be advised that this build becomes truly insane and can nuke groups with each enemy receiving 500-800 DMG per AoE hit on average... This is where I lost interest with this trick because it completely trivializes the game. But it is fun to see how far you can push DMG. Last point, with Crusted Swordfish as food, you don't even need the Scion of Flames etc. line of talent as with Assassinate your spells will reach very high PEN anyway.

You could be the one that beat a Steelclad with bare fists without Monastic Unarmed Training or Transcendant Suffering. There has to be an achievement for that . I agree on Toxic Strike but it has a special spot in my Deadfire heart because with high INT those last DoTs are insane, and with the Weakened affliction there is hardly a chance that a target will outheal its effect. Toxic Strike + Disintegration is fun to take out a sturdy opponent surrounded by healers and watch them try to desperately keep it alive - and fail. Helpful in very few situations where it's inconvenient to take out the healers first. I haven't used Ring the Bell a lot because I've mostly played 2H Rogues (ranged or melee). I will try it out further!

I see! Now I get it, I was wondering if you were getting at a specific item/party crazy combo synergy by stacking those 4 DoTs since you mentioned you stacked them. But yes it must bring a lot of flexibility, and I can totally see Rogue/Ranger being strong with this setup, like a Deadfire Corvo Blinking from one enemy to the other and doing his dirty work. Shadowdancer would be very strong with Toxic Strike. And of course, Arterial Strike is the bane of Steelclads and any similar tough melee enemy that doesn't have a weakness to DEX affliction because otherwise they can't move, which defeats the purpose.

I wonder what the name of this build is... "Captain Overkill"? Maybe with dual-wielding Axes to apply stacking Bleeding Cuts and of course Deep Wounds on top? Besides bosses, what on Eora is still alive after those 4 full attacks that requires such a festival of DoTs? Is it a build to use when playing with a FuryShaper with the Blood Ward and stay alive through boss fights?

I would also add, as @thelee pointed out in his guide, that Rogues are one of a few martial classes with Monks that benefit substantially from PL increase due to Sneak Attack. This, on top of the 2 high level abilities that @Elric Galad mentioned can be really good - and of course lots of Guile. On the other hand, Rogue is one of the best MC options and you can easily mitigate the loss of your high-level abilities and PL with a synergistic class. For example, pick vanilla Cipher with Assassin, take Biting Whip and Hammering Thoughts and you're already better at dealing weapon damage than SC Assassin, with the benefit of an extra class on top. You can go Soulblade with Melee too for an additional one-shot option in your arsenal. Add the DoC breastplate and a swim in the Luminous Bathouse and you have 12 Guile at max level which is still a lot to play with.

@Raven Darkholme @thelee I've experienced the following: the very first time in combat that Unbending Trunk triggers, the first tick of Healing is strictly 33% DMG of the first hit received (so it would seem that it is not affected by healing modifiers whatsoever). After that the HoT quickly snowballs into healing that can reach indeed over 100% of damage taken. And this is when things get hard to test because you don't get info from the log and you cannot really reproduce the same conditions twice for 2 different characters. Before I try to test more, do you think it could be at all possible that the initial effect isn't affected by healing modifiers but over-time effects would somehow?

It's true that the disengagement only works if you're applying the effect after you've been engaged - and of course it's better if you have a lot of engagement slots. I like it on an Assassin Devoted wielding Amra because even if you only get 1 or 2 disengagement attacks, they are very strong between your base weapon DMG and your Rogue goodies with persistent distraction etc. Maybe you won't take as much advantage of this strategy with a rapier but on the other hand, you will surely crit which will very often trigger additional attacks from Monk and give you a free wound so it could still be situationally nice.

Of note, the Immune to Flanking from Squid's Grasp is nice if you want to build around Tactician. AFIK the only other item in the game with this effect is Gipon Prudensco. A build around rapiers can be fun, I wish the game had a "disarm" effect that you could trigger with fencing specialists. That would be fun to quickly disarm an opponent with an expert thrust and turn the tide of the battle. Thematically a Riposte build with a Rogue would be very fitting, but IMO it's not a strong enough ability on its own to build around... unless you build around WotEP, but there goes your rapier idea . That being said, you could still be very powerful by investing a bit in Alchemy and drinking the occasional Potion of Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage which is amazing and inexpensive to buy/make. I wonder if with a Monk, the disengagement attacks from the Terrified effect can benefit from Heartbeat Drumming/Swift Flurry? In which case that + Overbearing Guard from Fighter would turn you into a Disengagement killing machine. EDIT: I forgot to mention Parting Sorrow if you build around Disengagement!

You guys probably know this by heart already but an Assassin/Cipher with Thunderous Report can really milk the Infinite Deltro Lash to one-shot essentially every non-boss opponent in an AoE. On the screenshot below I only had a 115% Deltro lash. In this case, Thunderous Report can reach ACC=183 and PEN=33 on Crit and of course ridiculous DMG, which is nice for the Deltro lash. Then you have the Everything and Anything lash from Kitchen Stove and the Biting Whip lash. Your one-shot automatically triggers invisibility from Slippers of the Assassin. Of course it's not an Ultimate-friendly build, but it's fun!

@BoeroerI had some ideas from this build and my Cipher/Assassin recent run, but I just retested more extensively with Mortar/Blunderbuss and Clear Out to be sure. It's a little funky because it really depends on what hits whom first, and whether there are pre-existing conditions qualifying for Sneak Attack/Deathblows. So essentially there are 2 cases, I'll start with the simple one : 1) If you are in the middle of a fight with targets that already have afflictions that qualify for Sneak Attack and Deathblows, every attack (AoE Clear Out, AoE Hand Mortar, AoE Thunderous Report...) on those targets will get Sneak Attack and Deathblows, and also Assassinate if you are hitting from stealth. Powder Burns still seems to behave a little funky but seems to get everything as well (maybe not Sneak Attack all the time and not Assassinate depending on timing/placement). By the way I just landed a Thunderous Report from invisibility on a poor group affected by Gouging Strike with the Cipher/Assassin and it did 457 DMG to the first target and 400+ DMG to each his buddies. Ouch 2) If you are opening a fight from stealth and no targets have pre-existing afflictions, things are a bit more complicated: Powder Burns gets Assassinate if it's the first thing to land (i.e. if someone is between your target and you when you shoot). In this case, your main attack and the AoE will be considered out of stealth and not receive bonuses. If you have Powder Burns on but shoot the closest target to you, your main attack lands first and gets Assassinate and Sneak Attack. The AoE hits and Powder Burns don't get any goodie because they happen afterwards. That is only partially true if your attack is landing a Blind affliction for example, because this enables Sneak/Deathblows for all Powder Burns hits and anything subsequent of course. The first target hit from Thunderous Report gets Assassinate and Sneak Attack. The other hits in the AoE get only Assassinate. My previous post about Clear Out is of course still true. I guess there are a few conclusions to draw from this exercise: Assassin multiclassing is fun It is confirmed that weapon AoE effects only get Assassinate but not Sneak Attack by default, however they will get Sneak Attack and Deathblows if the targets already qualify with afflictions. As I had mentioned in the Cipher/Assassin build, an opening Gouging Strike or Debilitating Strike with Hand Mortar (or Devastating Blow with Blinding Smoke ) is an amazing set up before something like Thunderous Report! For Clear Out specifically, Persistent Distraction is of course super strong and with engaged targets, you may sometimes get more AoE damage via Sneak/Deathblows than hitting from stealth (however your ACC will be much lower than in stealth and your build is all about Crits, so it might not be that good on average). But it is a good reason to alternate between stealth attacks and regular melee engagement, which also keeps the fight dynamic and fun. When you use hand mortars from stealth with Powder Burns on, you should really aim for the closest target and not try to aim for someone in the middle of a group otherwise only the first Powder Burn hit will get all your goodies. Oh and of course Thunderous Report is totally insane, but we already knew that! Did I mention that every time those attacks hit, enemies get stacking Deep Wounds DoT?

@Boeroer this is interesting: after doing more testing I have found that indeed the Clear Out AoE hits do not benefit from Sneak Attack or Deathblows BUT they do get the 50% Assassinate Bonus on Crit as well the PEN and ACC bonuses of course. Nice! Also interestingly, Bushwack from Ajamuut's stalking cloak will only apply to the main attack, not to the AoE attacks. It almost seems like the game considers the Clear Out AoE as a spell effect, not a weapon effect.

Yep! Interesting point about Riven vs. Wanton Gore. I remember reading an old post from you about that while planning for this build. At the end I went with Wanton Gore on the basis that because this toon is built around doing abnormal levels of damage, I could get more consistent mileage from a higher damage conversion %. I also thought it would be best because this ability seems to be able to crit, unlike the real Carnage (?). Indeed I've been validated in the fact that Wanton Gore is a lot more than a gimmick and can really increase your total damage dealt. But probably as you say, Riven Gore has a more interesting interaction with my beloved Clear Out ability. Oh well

I have seen this "Similar Effect" message show up but interestingly, it was on double Backstab procs (which sometimes work anyway). We're reaching yet another area of Deadfire oddity. @dgray62 I know you appreciate those weird Deadfire moments

I will get back to you on this but I've seen instances where enemies were hit by Clear Out + Assassinate bonuses without (!) Sneak Attack or Deathblows. And Backstab hitting twice. Which is weird when you think about the whole Stealth/Invisibility mechanics. I will do more testing as soon as I get a chance.

If you are running a playthrough without Berath's Challenge, on this build I think that Devoted is better than Tactician. I understand the hype and love for Tactician, I partake in it too . But the Tactician Dilemma drawbacks are strictly in the way of this build!

Good question! I'm not sure. Because the tooltip isn't very helpful in that regard, but for sure I get a ton of healing from Unbending Trunk. It is not an ability that I use often (I just like that it's there) but when I do, health is just going to take care of itself.

Thanks @thelee! It depends on the enemy roster: if it's just a lot of big hitters with uninteresting attacks, I will pop Unbending and Clear Out, but if it's a threatening mix of enemies with Priest/Rogue/Cipher abilities that can ruin your day, I will sneak in and take them out first. Interestingly, I cleared out most of Splintered Reef mostly with... straight-forward Clear Out and some careful timing on my Smoke Veil casts. On Clear Out, I'm totally with you. I had mostly used it with Citzal's Spirit Lance where numbers are so crazy anyway that I didn't pay attention. But on this toon I ran a lot of different tests, with different weapons, abilities, with/without community patch etc. and yes, Clear Out hits twice. Saucy!