Crumbleton

Ah totally thought lightning strikes applied lashes to spells at one point probably just imagining things. Well I'm pairing with blood mage so helwalker seems a bit.... err I don't want to explode myself to badly I thought about beserker but right now I have it as a fury shaper because I like the flavor of totems, I'm just hoping the terror totem is worth. So monk would add action speed , accuracy , and int/con (maybe armor) While barb would give action speed, damage (sometimes?), aoe terrify (no idea how good), do the bleeds and interrupts from frenzy apply to spells? And potential crazy casting speeds I guess?

Calm down there sauron!

I was thinking sage would be better because of the lash, accuarcy boost, and penetration? What are the bonuses I'm missing to barbarian? I'll be doubling it with a blood mage for infinite casting.

And while casting could I riposte if my weapon allow it?

Like would the paladins 15% fire lash damage add to spells if I was an arcane knight?

Yes but at that point you have to ask yourself, do I look cool with this shield?

There is a mod (or use to be) that changes all per rest items to per encounter. Theoretically you could rest between just about any fight so you could look at this is a way to freely use abilities you want without resting all the time.

Hmmm yeah i was trying to think of some type of silly tank build. Was thinking of Fire Godlike, Patinated Plate, Magrans Blessing, Sun and Moon flail, Blood mage / Unbroken focusing on combusted wounds, self buffs, retaliation effect from magrans blessing to help proc combusting wounds along with casting the wall spells and everything. So i guess my next question is, Are engagement slots really important to tanking or can i drop Fighter altogether?

so would that include chanter chants? I didnt see it in the combat log, but i guess it doesnt show up?

Okay so I tested quickly and it seems come sweet winds doesn't proc it sadly, does the dragon thrashed? Rooting pain?

Does come come sweet winds proc it, or the dragon thrashed? Anything like that proc combusting?

So you want them to remove interrupts from turn based mode?

Yeah I mean when I was running an assassin/sharpshooter with the arequebus and the modal it wasnt an issue but that's just crazy high accuracy. Haven't played DOS2 yet it's on my backlog I love the first. Yeah I know the feel, I remember getting a ton of stuff angry at me in the first and watching enemies barreling down on me from the fog of war was spooky. I enjoy that sort of thing though.

Yeah actions can go off at the same time that's true, the underlying system is still pretty much the same. You just have it when 2 actions occur simultaneously one gets priority based on X. Whether it be dex score or favored to player or enemies. Now the huge problem with this initiative based system is going to be combats against larger swarms of enemies. FFX is based around low numbers of enemies, now imagine the mode like it is now where against large swarms you're going to bounce back and forth forever taking single actions. The benefit of a round based mode is you're able to fill in more actions on a turn (potentially) and hopefully shorten these encounters. Do you really want to control a single auto attack, wait for enemy to change , bounce back, and auto attack again? Being able to fit multiple actions on a turn kind of NEEDS to be a thing or TTK will just be super tedious like it is currently

I mean ATB is the deadfire mode minus the pause before the action waiting for the input because at least what I recall from ff10 there isn't vector style targeting and what not. The underlying system would be the same except movement needs to be accounted for. I mean ultimately we'll see what the des do it'll be interesting either way I just want turns condensed a bit because as it stands now battles take forever. Doing a ton of small damage attacks that's switch between your characters isn't really exciting gameplay imo l. If you make an AA based character or one who has minimum skull usage the time it takes to switch from an enemy back to him would become tedious. I think even FFX had multi attacks but I haven't played that or blitz ball since I had my ps2 and was young so maybe I'm forgetting nuances. Now I'm thinking about how much I enjoyed legend of dragoon let's bring that battle style back!

I just want something where battles don't take days to complete, I'll be happy with what ever they decide as long as it's fun. I'd just like them to go really crazy with it so it's like we have alms 2 separate games. It'd be kind of nice to have builds be awesome in turn based that aren't so good in RTWP imo I just want more ways to experience the game!

I mean once you do that you're making it a direct port of RTWP. Now if they want to stick with rounds maybe they will need some sort of action point system where each AP has some sort of initiative value, that will lead to other balance issues in itself though. Now the thing is, dex DOESN'T have to be the best stat, it will take a different mindset but I mean it's okay to not have it be crazy good. The thing I'm most worried about is the fact that TTK is pretty high. Turn based will be longer regardless but sometimes it's just ridiculous.

You seem to not be understanding something. ATB and the FFX-like system people are suggesting are not the same. To say they are is, for lack of better word, ignorant. ATB has everyone taking their turn independent of each other, thus why I compared it to RTWP. The FFX-like system does not have that. You don't act whenever you feel like it independent of the actions of others. You have to wait. To say that RTWP is the same system but without automatic pause is to dismiss all the critical nuances of having everyone act indepedent of each other. It makes a huge difference. If you just outright ignore it, I don't know how you expect to have a serious conversation on the topic. Woa calm down with the agression there, you misunderstood what I said. ATB is the same as the base PoE system it just pauses when the action gauge hits 0, when I say PoE I mean RTWP that's why I didn't make a distinction of it being outside the base game mode. I mean I feel they could just add a pause box that you can click that says "pause when recovery hits 0" and that would be the ATB system. The ATB system will be really slow, really really slow, rounds are fine they just need to find a decent TTK, and to work out the kinks. I just find it funny how peoole go into big explanations of things like the ATB system and don't seem to realize it's the same system of RTWP just with no pause when recovery hits 0 (the action bar filling up)

Yeah I know, I think action speed is the only non linear thing and it's why everything's wo wonky. What I'm saying is that the ATB is just PoE that pauses before the action is taken its not really another system it's just an addition pause. I mean at that point, what's the point of the turn based mode? I'd rather see them wing something crazy that's balanced differently instead of the base game 10000X slower. Edit: I will add for stuff like int I'm not sure there is a great solution, with PL stuff does scale faster and you do get the other benefits, maybe they can increase the other benefits more in TB I have no idea!

I meant an ATB and dynamic turn are the the same system it's just an inversed gage that grows instead of recovers it's functionally the same though. I just mean I read all these post with quite long explanations of how that system works and it's like... Yeah that's how it works in the base game really just in real time. I mean the more I think of it there arent many super elegant solutions so I'm excited to see which direction they go. I definitely would like to see combats be a little shorter in general in turn based though

You're making it more confusing than it needs to be imo. The normal base game IS like final fantasy or an dynamic system because it is. The base game just removes the pause at the end of the action, what hrs saying is true if they just directly do that the turn based mode will be super slow without changes.

Blood mage is so good in turn based it's ridiculous

Thought I'd add this, in the base game you get something like an 85%recovery reduction from attacks made in stealth so a surprise round is kind of fitting imo. Yeah free actions are slightly problematic, in the base game you can do a bunch of buffs in a row with not much downside, but in turn based you could literally cast every free action ability you have for no downside, I think maybe having similar to what you say woth free actions maybe you get 1-2 (or you get more with pl) and have every free action thereafter cost movement to mimic real time.

Yeah I think the whole thing depends on them wanting to keep rounds in the game, because weird interactions will occur because of that. For rounds to work I think you'll need to standardize a ton of stuff to make it feasible. There will undoubtedly be balance issues but I think this will happen regardless and we need to realize the game has gone through a ton of changes and need to rethink how we should approach this. I feel dex not being super strong is okay. So I mean I'll use this just as an example, you'll probably need to break weapons down to categories. Light, medium, and heavy. Light gets a +1 extra attack, medium +0, and heavy -1. You can than change dual wielding to add an extra attack. So 2h weapons are classified as heavy, swords are the baseline medium weapon, and daggers would be considered light. You could then look at talent trees for the classes and alter one handed / two handed / gunner etc to fit turn based mode, by increasing the bonuses, altering them, etc etc. They could also just use initiative as the catch all stat, have it be tied to turns in a round since a round is 6 seconds they could just do it that way, but then Initiative is sort of double dipping like I said in TBM. A lot will just depend on what there vision is and how they want to go about it. 100000% action economy is the big issue, you have a lot of stuff that requires multiple actions to be powerful but being locked to only 1 action per round is terrible for a ton of the classes. Blood mage is stupidly good because you can cast a high level spell every round while some people are stuck doing a single AA.

'How do they account for a dagger user and a sword user using the same ability (strike the bell, let's say)? The sword user's will now always be better because it does more damage 9/10 times. What made you want to use daggers over swords, if ever, was action speed AND recovery (both affected by dex). That allowed a quicker reaction to potential dangers, shutting down an ability I don't want used/casted or delaying a big hitter until I can get that one last bit of damage in. -- It's the same in the base game if you use strike the bell the swords are better 100% of the time for an ability for damage, If light weapons had a trait where they could gain an additional attack or two while using a Full Round action it could continue to mimic how it works in game. --We're sort of arguing the same point, but drawing separate conclusions. 'Well, let's look at multiple actions per turn now. Multiple free actions is already stupid strong. I don't think multiple standard actions would be AS strong, but how does that balance against spells? In one turn, my dagger character can now wreak havoc instantly. Why is my caster waiting so long to do the same amount of damage? Or possibly less damage. In RTWP you could interrupt what in turn based is a standard action (though it required very careful timing). That doesn't have to translate perfectly, but we have to make sure whatever is being casted is proportionally worth waiting and having your resource wasted. Is it then worth it to have to wait to cast the spell, forgoing your other actions? Does using one action deny me a spell? Would it instead be better to make spells cost a proportional number of actions? What if I don't have that many actions because my dex is so low? What if I have more than enough actions to cast two or more devestating spells? Etc, etc.' I think your sort of straw-manning what i'm saying but i don't think it's intentional. Multiple free actions probably needs to be capped to maybe 2 a round. Now your asking how Using Strike the bell + a few auto attacks stack up against a spell? It works the same way is it currently does in the game (although in game you can just use strike the bell spamming it). Spells are incredibly strong they come with riders whether it be CC or debuffs, and cast in large AoE's. IMO the spell casting is fine, a FULL ROUND action is that, it cost the entire round, you can't cast multiple high tier spells. I have no idea where you're getting action speed and all this other stuff from i never really mentioned it. Right now wizards / druid casting is fairly good if you have low enough initiative you get penalized which is good. The problem right now is Martial builds only get access to a single attack compared to a wizard casting a fireball, which is pretty bad. Now I really like round based combat, so regardless of how they do it Weapon based builds need a way to attack multiple times a round. I think in General DPR (damage per round) needs to be higher. Now if DPR goes up initiative becomes a much better stat (increase damage for enemies too). Now if initiative is tied to gaining multiple attacks it becomes EVEN BETTER than it is in the base game where it's arguably by far the strongest stat in most cases. It will now allow you to ACT first and increase your DPR. So now your damage dealers are acting at the top of the round getting all there high damage out and you can probably remove enemies straight from combat. I think they need to add another action type or two maybe to help round out the action economy.