Rex

Well, I just typed a whole long opinion, but accidently pressed Ctrl V instead of Ctrl C, so now I'm too pissed to retype all of it, so bah.

I've been thinking about it, and I think you are on to something, Vanarion. I felt the same about my characters past. Wait, Reveilled, Bau-Dur died? When? How?

Why do people keep insisting that Revan was only trying to save the Republic? Revan was cold, heartless, and a Sith to his core. He cared nothing about the Republic government, He wanted power because he knew he could take it. He had no problem razing planets and killing innocents, as long as his goals were forwarded. The halogram on Kasyyk in KotOR 1 helps explain Revan's persona, thoughts, ideas, and ideals. I do not understand how many people after KotOR 2 draw to the conclusion that Revan fell to the Darkside and attacked the Republic simply and only in order to save it from the "True Sith". That is not really what KotOR 2 describes. That was simply one reason. Revan believed only HE was strong enough to lead against the "True Sith", this arrogance bred a lust for power, and that lead him to the Darkside. Once fallen he would do anything to achieve his goals, why do you think he would be upset if Malak razed a planet? He razed many when he lead the invasion of the Republic. Revan and Vader were both fascists, believing that what they were doing was good for the whole. No person believes themselves to be evil, it is all point of view. As for Malak, I believe he just didnt care about Revan's plans. Malak wanted power, and he didnt care how he got it, or what he had to do to get it.

So, he wasnt speaking baby ewok afterall.

Butler, I have all of those same questions, but forgot to ask them. Osiris I think it is possible to stary neutral, but this would mean flip flopping between lS and DS actions, which would make no sense story wise.

I believe he is speaking baby ewok.

I felt almost exactly the same as you did at the end of the game, Prisoner. I think part of my problem with this game was that I really did not like the main "You are a wound in the force" plot. I miss the simple, yet fun, Dark vs. Light. Star Wars is about the struggles of polar opposites, this game tried to blend the lines, in an effort to be unique and different, and I feel that it was Un-Star Wars like. I bought this game to get a Star Wars experiance, and at the end I felt short changed. Despite this, I still enjoyed most of the game, and it is fun up to the Dantooine Council point.

I recently beat DS Male as well, and I have all these questions and more. You did not miss anything, the game is just not complete for DS. Most of everything past the Council scene on Dantooine is fractured, incomplete, or missing. It left a bad taste in an otherwise good game.

No offense, but you missed my point. I should not have to play through "ALL" aspects of the game, to get and understand MAIN PLOT POINTS. Almost all of Osiris's questions are valid, I had the same ones and I played thourouly through DS Male. I will certainly blame the game for leaving out main plot points and piecing together a fractured end game with details and situations that do not make sense or are left out. I should not have to go searching and replay the game 10 times to find out the main plot and why my character is going where, I should only have to do that if I wanted to get every dialouge in the entire game with full backstories, which I'm guessing you pretty much did. Many of our main plot answers may be hidden deep somewhere in the game, but they should be at the surface.

Traya = Witch Sion = Corpse Nihilus = Clown I liked how one of the load screen messages explained the three as each taking away and focusing on one aspect of the Malachor V Academy, Sion learned Pain, Nihilus learned Hunger, and Traya learned Betrayal. That being said, I think Nihilus was by far the worst of the three. He had no backstory, he sounded like a baby ewok, he looked like a female clown, and he popped into the game at the end without any mention (Although somehow my character knew about it, another "huh?" moment). It would have been better if it was revealed that he was someone from KotOR 1.

Have you beaten the game on both LS and DS? I have a feeling that the ending parts of the game were geared more towards LS, and the DS storyline was not completely finished. I played DS and went through every dialogue I was able to go through, and I have almost all the same questions as Osirus. Do not label us ignorant complainers simply because we have questions that the rushed last 5 - 10 hours of the game did not explain to us. This game would have greatly benifited from another 10 - 20 hours of gameplay.

Well, I liked KotOR 1's storyline a lot better than KotOR 2's storyline. After beating the game as DS male, I still do not fully understand what happened to my character pre game, what happened at the battle of Malachor V to make is so tragic and appalling to haunt my character, why Kreia was DS but told me I failed her completely at the Council, only to later tell me I was her best student, and many more things. The entire overall point of "Giving up the force to wound the force" thing (Which was basically the entire point of the storyline, DS anyway) just doesn

I loved using Force Crush later in the game. There was no need to even use my saber anymore, no matter how many enemies were attacking me at once.

If you think that's bad, just wait until the last few hours of the game. You will have at least five major "Wtf is going on?!" moments, where nothing is making any logical sense.

I'd tend to agree that Lucas is kind of ruining his Star Wars Universe, but regardless, it is his to ruin. His word is Canon, and there is nothing we can really do about it except call him an inept hack. Stormtroopers aren

Hmm... Well as for Anakin, I'd agree that he takes the first major step to the Dark Side by killing the Tuskans. I believe it was "a fall" but not "The Fall". I'd agree with the Brick Analogy, but I would be one who labels as it hits the ground, not as it is dropped. In game terms, Anakin gains Dark Side points, but is not yet very low on the slider bar. I believe the Clone Wars inch him farther and farther, and the events of Episode III push him to the bottom, where he will "Fall". Remember that in Episode II even as Anakin slaughters the Tuskans, he later justifies it. If I remember correctly it was something like, "They are animals, and I slaughtered them like animals". This justification for him, that the Tuskans were sub-human and that they are better off dead, allows him to pave his road to the Darkside with best intentions. He deludes himself into believing that he is not truly doing anything wrong. This goes to what you were discussing earlier about Revan's Fall. I disagree with many of you on the reasons for Revan's Fall. I played both KotOR and KotOR 2 as a DS Male, and having just finished KotOR 2 tonight, I find myself far more confused than after finishing KotOR 1. This is how I see events. Basicaly I believe Revan was seduced by the Darkside slowly during the Mandalorian War, and he came to lust for the power to rule the galaxy. He was not a "Good guy that was just doing what he had to do". Remember that Revan himself killed many innocents, soldiers, and Jedi, all to keep and grow his power. Take the Kasyyk(Sp?) questions by the hologram in KotOR 1 for example. They give a good view of what Revan was like and how he thought. He was not a tactless brute like Malak, he was more a Palapatine like character. Here is how I see this happening: Revan and Malak defy the Jedi Council and take Jedi with them to join and lead the Mandalorian Wars because they are the strongest of the young Jedi, headstrong and arrogant. They feel that what they are doing is Right, and they cannot stand by and do nothing when they know they can do so much. As the war rages, Revan, Malak, and their Jedi followers grow stronger, and the war shapes them and changes them. They become hard and militaristic, these being far from Jedi views. As the war draws to a close, Revan looks towards the future. He knows that he cannot return to the Jedi Council, war has changed and shaped his opinions. He now no longer believes in the Jedi and their code, and war has taught him that the strong survive. He is the strongest, and he comes to the conclusion that it is his right as the strongest to take and rule, not necessarily because it is best, but because he can. Revan visits ancient Sith places, discovers the potential of the Star Forge, and after visiting Malachor V, he plans the final battle there, crushing the Mandalorians and ending the war. It is then an easy transition to turn his followers to his side, as in most wars, An army becomes attached to its leader, and loses affiliation with its government. So Revan leads the War against the Republic, to conquer it and reforge it into a vast militaristic sith empire. Unfortunately the events of KotOR take place, and this is where my confusion begins. I played KotOR as DS Male, so I ended taking back command of the Sith and preparing to lead them to final victory. I have a hard time accepting KotOR's explanations of what happens afterward. It makes no sense to me why Revan would just walk away from it all, in order to charge at some unknown threat far away (I understand the need game wise, to fit the open endings of KotOR into the sequel, but I think they ould have made a better storyline). Revan supposedly abandons his forming empire to fight a threat alone (why?) that he discovers (I believe) soon after the end of KotOR. Would it not have been easier to unite the galaxy under his rule, then build mighty fleets and armies to attack and preempt an invasion by these "True Sith" than to charge at them alone? The game's need to have a DS and a LS Revan on the same story arch really hurts the logic of the actions of the DS Revan. I was hopeing to at least meet Revan, not have him whisked away on some magical journey to stop "The Real Sith" by the developers. And wouldn't a DS Revan want to join or help "The Real Sith"? Sorry this post is so long, I did not mean it to be, heh.

I just finished KotOR 2 as DS Male, the ending was bad, but not as bad as some of the events that lead up to it. It seems to me like right after the Council on Dantooine part, the developers ran out of time. Everything was great up to that point, then it went straight down hill. I didn't really know what was going on from that point until I got to the Academy on Malachor V. I'd get dialogue options about things I didn't know about, and the game seemed to lose a lot of logical sense towards the end. My character somehow knew there was going to be an invasion on Telos, even though he had never been told that. The entire end of Atris part caused me to shake my head and think, "Wtf is going on?" The attack on the Ravager seemed to come without anyone coming up with a plan, it just happened. There were no more real dialogue scenes after the Council on Dantooine, and it caused the whole climax and ending of the game to just plain suck. Almost ruins an otherwise great game.

Not cool, not cool at all, but I can see how it is not Obsidian's fault. I've been reading this forum for awhile now, but I never felt the need to post until now. When I saw the release date I felt disappointed, annoyed, and betrayed. I personally despise consoles and never play them, and I was looking forward to playing this game before the year was over. It was indeed a dirty trick pulled by Lord Gates and a big Screw You to PC gamers, but I can't really blame him either. Microsoft is a business and has a duty and responsibility to make the most money it can. By releasing the X-Box version 3 months before the PC version, Microsoft is going to make a lot more money than if the release was simultaneous. Lord Lucas of course would love to oblige his good friend Lord Gates and has LucasArts set the dates. Now Obsidian is forced to betray their biggest fan (and customer) base and follow orders from the mighty Sith Lords. So in the end, Microsoft wins in the short run by having PC and X-Box gamers buy the KotOR 2 X-Box version instead of waiting for the PC version (or buying both) and in the long run by pleasing X-Box gamers and attracting more gamers to buy an X-Box (brand loyalty). LucasArts wins in the short run by simply making more money with many gamers ending up buying both versions and long run by cuddling up to Microsoft (future business contracts). Obsidian wins in the short run by making a bigger profit than they would in a simultaneous release and losing in the long run by disappointing many PC gamers and losing potential customers in the future, as well as gaining a bad image. Economics is fun and I love being a Republican. And a Sith. A brilliant scheme by Lord Gates and it