Xard

Pink Floyd - On The Turning Away

Pink Floyd - Have A Cigar

CMX - Talvikuningas

it was you devs and moderators who got it locked last time, not us the "whiners" *grumble*

If California seceded it would be be fourth, fifth or sixth rich nation in the world Just to let you other americans know how much cooler California is

The very point is she could not knew what would happen, no one could Again, it was just act of madness and carelesness by one hypocrite

I doubt you did either. No, I didn't Atris didn't think she was betraying them. It was not her intention. You can't say she betrayed the jedi. Rather she just made stupid mistake that ended up being very costly

yeah, game over 'sides, it was even hotter on Mira ...too bad I couldn't put it on Kreia

Dude, you're so dead Only slim difference between "fact" and opinion is argument's worth. I think I made my case quite clear while you go on with your typical one sentence answers without any substance, even when directly asked She didn't betray jedi gathering. Atris is a lot more complex than typical yet-another-falling-jedi. Yes, very deep or original characters indeed. I like Bastila's character, but she's typical Bio character and basically Aribeth 2.0 (Silk Fox in JE is Aribeth 3.0 or Bastila 2.0), I liked her backstory and how she had to deal with her mother etc. Overall good character with nice character development, but essentially she's nothing more than typical fallen jedi. Very simple version of Atris. Ever heard of Freud? Handmaiden is very deep and complex character and her relationship with male Exile is that of subtetly. There's the hidden meaning of sparring in context of echani culture (which doesn't become apparent untill later in game), her relationship to her mother and how it reflects on what kind of person she became, the connection she sees and awes between Exile and her father (which with its platonical and purely non-romantical interest and longing mixed with clear romantical undertones gave me reason to lol at propably unintentional Freudism), her interest in forbidden jedi teachings conflicting with her loyalty to Atris (which alone is comparable to Bastila's flickering between light and dark), the very strained relationship with her "sisters" and how it has shaped her... There's a lot going on in her character, most of it under the surface and it requires keen attentiveness to minute details to truly "unlock" her character. This is very much same with most of K2's cast and reason why back in 05-06 there was CONSTANTLY huge threads that were basically (psychopathological in some cases) analyses of K2's key characters. Especially Jediphile shined in this. As for dialogue I don't see how one claim Bastila's dialogue was better written. It was mostly the mundane, bland stuff Star Wars jedis have spouted out since whole EU mumbo jumbo began in dawn of time. There's some nice bits and parts, but largerly it is shallow, "easy to get" and at times unbeliavable dialogue due to story schemes. Handmaiden/Brianna's dialogue on the other hand is subtle, marvelously written and deeply entwined with her character beginning from choice of words and how they're ultimately tied with her echani philosophy. Her observations on fight and its very nature, nature of words compared to fight, her mixed loyalties etc. all come off with grace rarely seen. This is essentially the beauty and skill of MCA's writing and strong reminder of Planescape Torment in where character's nature defined the way they talked and acted to truly masterful extremes. You can always FEEL the core of character within K2's (and especially) and PS:T's cast because they're expressed on so many levels, by both actions and basic dialogue. Only substantial part of Bastila's backstory is conflict with her mother which was by all means fine addition. But yet again so very mundane. But I doubt you caught subtetly of this fundamental aspect in Kotor 2 when you played it. That's really heavy Mother-Daughter ****. (please notice both have locks btw. It affects even visual details) What really sets Kotor 2 and Kotor 1 apart is above all the character development and how it is handled. There's no subtetly or has ever been in Bioware's writing. Characters are very achetypical, identifiable and categorizable. When you first meet Bioware character you know him/her through and through. There's no subtetly or grace in character development, they're handed in bits like some kind of reward for players and they're so very obvious. Canderous does reflect his "core nature" in the way he talks (and he is one of better written characters in k1), but at the same time he simply reflects the dozens of tough guy architypes summoned by Hollywood in the heyday. When Kotor 2 character speaks those words tend to be such they couldn't have come from any other character's mouth, but Bioware characters tend to be very remixes of archetypes. You can easily imagine Canderous's dialogue (stripping away Mandalorian in-universe references of course) coming from mouth of some action flick character. (I feel bad on knockin' down Canderous here because he IS well written character) Not so much with Handmaiden, Visas, Kreia or G0-T0 (he does resemble HAL somewhat, but only by far). Handmaiden's speak is defined by the sentence structures and words (often derivated in some way from "fighting" words and then given new context) of her dialogue and is really hard to imagine in anyone elses mouth, unlike the case with K1 character. Mission Vao is quite archetypical annoying brat who could live in any youngsters series on TV. K1 had one fantastically written character and that was Jolee, but 1 character against army of others isn't doing much. HK-47 is great too but after K2 I haven't enjoyed him so much in k1 again (nearly all top HK-47 quotes come from K2 e.g Pacifist installment and its hilarious consequences or his definition of love) and well, Canderous is good as I already said. K1 characters overall are very decent. JE... not so much Biggest differences between Bio games and Kotor 2, MotB and especially PS:T doesn't stem only from incredibly well written dialogue, it stems above all from how their characterization and development is handled. In Kotor 2 it's often so subtle one misses it, only to find himself later thinking "HOW I COULDN'T SEE THAT". But I'm wasting my breath here. Just read this greatest LP on the internets and you get the idea what I'm talking about and why K2 is so much above K1 in writing It is also worth noting how Kotor 2's nemesises are basically aspects of Exile himself (in metaphysical, not literal sense) he must confront in order to grow through his/her tribulations instead of some boring, cliched cackling maniac. (heck, at least MCA IMPLIED that Nihilus is basically lost half of Exile, but it is unclear if this cool and very fitting concept was ever canonized) It is similar to Empire Strikes Back in its Hero's Journey structure and thematic elements.

my thread was locked you know

in b4 Volourn

MCA is such a handsome devil Bulock is now my new favourite developer thanks for his mutt chops And Obz has TWO woman designers? Awesome no, I didn't even read the link yet lol

Please, K1 dialogues tend to be silly, black and white and just campy. Preferring characters of k1 over k2 (who aren't such likeable bunch) I can understand, but claim Bastilla had better dialogue than Handmaiden is just wrong on so many levels I guess you didn't get Hanharr's character Tell me one character from K1 that is on level with Atris

what a coincidence

yeah, that's why I said I'm not sure if it is art direction or natural aptitudeness of IE engine that makes visuals so stunning in BG2

I don't know if it is engine or art direction AND engine but BG2 visuals > Jade Empire Are you trying to say second rate Chewbacca with zero personality is better and more interesting character than twisted, original take on wookiees that illuminates dark shades of those creatures way Star Wars hasn't done elsewhere. (Which is funny when SW movies recognize beast, dangerous nature of wookiees.) Or Handmaiden with her echani philosophy and elektra complexial tendencies (lulz) when it comes to Exile and mysterious blind sith are weaker characters than Bioware Stereotype No1 Bastilla and furry? Carth the crybaby is better character than ever so flimsy Atton or tormented Bao-Dur? Mission Vao is better than G0-T0, droid run amok with conflicting commands? HK-47 in k1 over HK-47 in k2 not to mention T3-M4 which actually is character in K2. Not to mention Nihilus, Sion and Atris as adversaries > Malak Kreia of course beats everyone

of course, but point here is that it WAS China with magixes on it. And that's why eastern people - esp chinese - were frustrated with the game's shallowness. THAT is JE's main problem in everything. In characters, in themes and their handlings, in game mechanics... Anyway, problem with not enough background research was that JE's setting turned out to be some goofy, unbeliavable and shallow dream version of China. Hell, even as fantastic wuxia it fails as Zoma might tell you

Volo, explain how JE's mostly formulaic, cliched and uninspired writing can match Kotor 2 or hell, even Kotor 1? I'm not saying JE was badly written, it wasn't. Occasionally it was very good (demon/girl, ghost children) and most of the time decent. That's what Bio does, decent, occasionally good writing. But it wasn't anything brilliant like K2 that is full with quote material. For example there's nothing on quality and nuances of Atris confrontation in early game, or Handmaiden, or Mira and Zhaalbar etc. Not to mention Kreia. Most of the party members in JE are uninspired cliche sacks (failed jokes like Henpecker Hen, dullness to max like Dawn Star, the Stereotypical Stubid Brute whose name I already forgot, stereotypical tough grumby monk ((what a difference between him and Dak'kon who are the very same archetype!) and goofy madman/scientist) and plot and world resemble Disney take on China and its culture. Hmm, maybe. It still wasn't good as far as eastern art directions go, though this is propably bit unfair as Bio guys are western.

TIME - Special Issue: The Republicans, Page 15 I'll write more about this, and try to post an on-line article or a better picture, tomorrow. summarized:

Cream - Strange Brew

whole game is over the top. In a bad way. btw, that's just YOUR opinion. Only interesting mission from Tien's Landing I remember were ghost children (game's best) and getting husband for crime boss Anyway, not liking missions =/= they're rushed

ahh, you're just trolling Volo is right on rushing thing

you can't srsly claim JE's writing is better than K2's