house2fly

For some reason they didn't have patch notes to go with it, so does anyone see any changes? Major bug fixes?

I seriously don't remember any dialogue options where your character is shattered by the revelation, the only direct reaction I know of at all is that if you're a philosopher and say at the beginning you don't believe anything you get an "i knew it!" dialogue option when Iovara tells you.

A good way to get your point across is to repeat the same vague mumbling point a billion times without providing any specific examples of what you're talking about because you know there are none.

I never said I was gonna leave this thread, I maintain my stand......main story indeed reflects an anti-theism cliche, so I ain't going anywhere son, don't worry........ Edit: I love the gameplay but the main story conclusion put off in a most terrible way, no other RPG chopped my wings in such a manner and pushed me down blindfolded in a narrow and dark corridor with no windows and doors...... it was an absolute horror.....I was like WTF are these dialogue choices, this is not what my guy is meant to say, this is not my Watcher.........F' this ****....... Which dialogue options, specifically, are you referring to? I have already said it, I am not going to say it again to encourage you to keep asking me the same question over and over again..........if you are trying to drive me away by annoying me, its not going to work..... looks like I win the argument, as you cannot produce an example.

For example, Thaos says that the gods give order and peace, and you have the option to say "teaching people there were no gods would have done the same thing". This is an example of a dialogue option which is atheist in content because it suggests your character believes there are no gods.

I never said I was gonna leave this thread, I maintain my stand......main story indeed reflects an anti-theism cliche, so I ain't going anywhere son, don't worry........ Edit: I love the gameplay but the main story conclusion put off in a most terrible way, no other RPG chopped my wings in such a manner and pushed me down blindfolded in a narrow and dark corridor with no windows and doors...... it was an absolute horror.....I was like WTF are these dialogue choices, this is not what my guy is meant to say, this is not my Watcher.........F' this ****....... Which dialogue options, specifically, are you referring to?

There was a Leaden Key journal or something you find as part of the main quest that said "there are more kids being born in Dyrford so we gotta fire up the machine again"

Sorry, I guess I missed it. You mostly talk in generalities like "I am forced the accept that there are no gods as an uncontested fact" and I don't remember any dialogue options to that effect so I wondered what you were basing it on.

What PC dialogue options are you thinking of that were so biased? You've still not said that.

you could probably also just use a cheatengine to give yourself the achievement

I agree, for example I dislike Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate because the gods' existence is accepted as an uncontested and universal truth and I can't role play as an atheist. There are cults in Forgotten Realms that believe in strength of will and other things but not any Gods....... BTW you are actually acting like an atheist by coming up with nonsensical arguments........and don't ask me what cults I am talking about, you can read up FR lore on your own and find out, you know how to read, I am guessing...... Could you name some points in, say, Baldur's Gate 2 where the player character is given the option to express that they do not believe the gods of the setting exist?

I agree, for example I dislike Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate because the gods' existence is accepted as an uncontested and universal truth and I can't role play as an atheist.

When something is revealed the game acts as if it has been revealed to you! Quelle horreur! Go on then. What is the writer's personal disposition in real life and how does it influence the story.

I fill a cup with ice and then pour in hot coffee, the coffee melts the ice and the ice chills the coffee, and I chug it down and try not to interact with coffee too much other than that because I had a friend who got addicted to it and got caffeine withdrawal headaches all the time and that would suck.

Zahua's my favourite character. Do NOT sacrifice him to the blood pit.

*plays a game where you forge connections with your friends, watches tearjerking ending slides where they go on to be better people for having met you* these damn nihilists!!!!

You can agree with Thaos on the point that 'Gods are indeed unreal but the concept of God is needed to keep people in order'..........this is kind of a loaded idea......telling kids that there is no such thing as Gods and people who believe in Gods know that Gods don't exist but people believe anyway so that order can be kept........which ultimately means that belief in a deity is a faulty and misguided disposition........ The game pushes the players in this direction deliberately as no dialogue options are given in disagreement of this theory........all NPCs involved also accept this theory...... I loaded the game multiple times to find an alternate dialogue options but all dialogue paths lead to this same conclusion...... Honestly this is bull****..... Other fantasy stories are telling kids who don't believe in God that there is a God....existence of gods in the Forgotten realms goes completely unchallenged...........is there a point in any Infinity Engine game where you can say that you believe there are no gods and have atheism be a valid character trait..... I think not....................never mind the question of what the hell "kids" are doing playing a game that starts with a corpse tree and includes depictions of horrific rapes, murders and torture....

Probably from a practicality standpoint it's better for the flow of the story for them to understand that she's speaking the truth rather than get involved in big philosophical debates with them one at a time on your way through the dungeon. Since they're talking to a soul you could say they sensed the truth of what Iovara was saying through a spiritual connection- as she says, she's not exactly speaking to you mouth-to-ears in English.

Your conversations about it with party members have them displaying varying levels of acceptance but Iovara herself admits that she can't prove it.

You can agree with Thaos. You can even side with Woedica in the end and take his place.

And you've got a bunch of people in this thread explaining to you how it's not 'as it is'. You can feel however you like about whatever, but people have explained in various ways how the game does not argue what you think it argues. Here: the game's point is that here is a fantasy world where everyone thinks these gods are real and it turns out that they are, but they were created by some ancient race. Are these gods still gods? Should people still believe in them? Is it right or wrong to tell them about this truth? If you think that is pushing an agenda then OK. My point of disagreement with them is that, they are rationalising, they are filling the blanks with their reasoning, not calling it as it is.......... Dont give it benefit of doubt....... All I am saying that the intentions with story telling doesn't seem pure........it distinctively feels like there is more at play here........ EDIT: Anyway, that's how I felt after playing the game, and I shared it........and if anyone ask me about the game.....I'ld say its got great gameplay but story telling is pushing an idea, its not sincere....... By "not sincere" do you mean the authors are "pushing an idea" that they do not themselves believe?

That is completely untrue. There is no proof in the existence of a deity that has ever been formally presented nor acknowledged. In fact, the entire concept of "faith" entails maintaining a belief despite the complete lack of proof. Disagreed....... Damn. Demolished that argument.

I suppose if you want a counterpoint look at Eder. His god literally got killed, and he still prayed at the temple for years even in the face of growing religious intolerance, still worships and defends his worship to you. He has faith even when there's no reason to.

I don't agree with that argument.

Yes the ending is kind of hamfisted but that's not what I meant and not everybody disagrees with me, game does relay an underlying political / non religious value and to me it felt like that it was done to the extent where it kind of ruined the game, at least for me.... Why was the game ruined by relaying an underlying value? Because then its not care free fun anymore, somebody is trying to push something in my face deliberately, doesn't that ruin your fun? No, I enjoy plot twists and I also enjoy stories which have the potential for applicability to the real world.