nemesis205bw

No, you are still wrong. 1 knockout on wizard vs 5 knockouts on monk is 66% remaining health vs 16% remaining health... Were talking total health remaining here not percentage of health remaining, and I said 1.5 which sort of meant he'd have to take 150% of his endurance in damage. Dont fuk with me please. Its your post:

No, you are still wrong. 1 knockout on wizard vs 5 knockouts on monk is 66% remaining health vs 16% remaining health...

Even if this were true, it fails to factor in that Torment's Reach spam = ridiculous amounts of damage. Any monk can easily do this. So +50% dmg per hit is ridiculous amount of damage? +50% dmg per hit is on par with a crit, so yes, it is ridiculous amounts of damage when you have a class "critting" every half a second. Lol rogue has as much with normal attacks and doesnt require to get hit... Actually its more because rogue bonus apply before armor and monks after. Barb has +50% dps just from bloodlust and blooded. When you add frenzy it becomes 1.25*1.2*1.33*1.18=135% bonus dps. When you add +20% from unbugged OSA it is now 182% bonus. If you add +25% weapon enchant then barb will have 253% bonus dps!!! There are also enchants with 20% bonus attack speed so it gives us total 324% bonus dps!!! How can you compare your 50% (which is exaggeration because you cant spam it whole fight on every aa) to barbs 324%? And dont forget that barb has also abilities which boost that damage even more like barbarian blow. And yes, barb will crit much more often because of how easy it is to apply weakened stance which translates to +20 acc for barb and another +10 from sickened (threatening presence) which gives barb 25 accuracy advantage over monk.

How is that? Cipher has 4 health per endurance and monk 6. If cipher get knocked out once he still has 75% health. If monk get knocked out 5 times hes left with just 16% health. Your logic and overall arguments are just... no comment.

Even with healers, it is not true. And monk that get hit alot will last only few fights before having to rest. Heals only work on endurance.

Thats even worse lol. You have no idea what you are talking about. Its much better to get flat dmg increase before armor (like barb), then after.

Even if this were true, it fails to factor in that Torment's Reach spam = ridiculous amounts of damage. Any monk can easily do this. So +50% dmg per hit is ridiculous amount of damage?

Sadly they are not . 10-15 base damage on monk. Transcendent suffering adds flat damage after additive multipliers are applied (it does not add to base damage before that step as I would've hoped) .. Fist monk is just like shapeshift druid. Viable only in the early beginning of the game. Later on any enchanted weapon outshrine fists by miles. that is not quite true either .. They do scale (gain +accuracy and flat additive damage) and have fastest attack speed.. I think only multiple enchantment endgame unique weapons have a serious edge over monk fists .. Any weapon with elemental enchant does the job better...

Sadly they are not . 10-15 base damage on monk. Transcendent suffering adds flat damage after additive multipliers are applied (it does not add to base damage before that step as I would've hoped) .. Fist monk is just like shapeshift druid. Viable only in the early beginning of the game. Later on any enchanted weapon outshrine fists by miles.

And where that edge comes from? Well, barb has only frenzy (+33 atk speed for quite short duration), blooded (situational, +20% dmg) and one stands alone(presumably +20% damage once it is fixed, right now it is in the "don't take if you don't want to break the game category", and also a bit situational) for single target. Monk has swift strikes (+25% atk speed, likely larger uptime than frenzy) and torments reach (+50% damage, needs wound) or alternatively turning wheel (+5% dmg per wound passively, can easily be 20-40% in each fight). Monks bonuses look a bit weaker but they are less situational. Plus this ignores the fact that fists, while universally being bashed on these forums, are the highest base dps weapon in the game on monk, and are only lacking in special properties. However, for a large part of the game you won't have a better weapon tbh. So all in all, I think monk has a small edge. With carnage barb still does more total damage though. Dont count torments reach at the same time as turning wheel... Monk is no less situational because most of his dps requires him to get hit. You can have 2 frenzy uses per encounter which is much stronger then monk buffs and you can start fight with it unlike monk. You also forgot about bloodlust which is active most of the time on regular encounters. Brute force is huge damage boost too. Also its funny how you completely ignore 6 might boost from frenzy which is 18% more dmg.

And where that edge comes from?

Same with barb before monk gets enough wounds. We are talking about maximum possible dps.

I checked it many times and it seems most troublesome enemies have higher deflection.

So now AOE melee is exploit? There is no way you can spam torments reach every half second unless you are getting your ass kicked hard (which shouldnt happen because you are dps not tank). Barb can easily get 30 bonus accuracy with brute force + weakened and sickened status. Just threatening presence and priest in team. Also frenzy is MUCH better then swift strikes. And when you add blooded and bloodlust its additional 50% dps increase (1.25*1.2). You are kidding right? Cipher has the highest single target (as well as aoe) dps in the game. Rogue and chanter (with 2 ogres out and spamming dragon thrashed) easily outdamage monk as well.

Because of higher crit chance (threatening presence + brute force), frenzy, blooded and ocasionally bloodlust. No contest. One stands alone is currently bugged, but when fixed it should give atleast 20% more dmg which is still alot.

Why exploit bugs? It isnt fun way to play at all.

Yep, this game has way too many bugs. My 3rd playthro and I need to quit again because this game became trivial and not fun at all. I know the story so theres no point on keep playing.

I bought it in stronghold aswell.

Hmm that would explain why it didnt stack for me. I tested cape and armor. Cipher would benefit from this even more.

Retaliate items dont stack.

It is 100% bug. The added damage is multiplied by everything like savage attack and 2h mastery, crits ect. Also retaliate with this talent will deal 60-70 base damage... Definitely not intended.

Barb even on single target. Yes, barb is still buggy.

How could they release that bugged game? It should be early alpha.

I did test it with rogue deep wound.

This build was never meant for soloing I said it many times. You could max dex and dumb con and see how its going. If it's not meant for soloing, why wouldn't you just use an actual DPS cipher? This is dps cipher. Deal much more dmg while being very tanky.