AlphaMagnum

This isn't necessarily the case (2H being better) when you factor in all of the Rogue's on-hit bonuses... such as sneak attack, reckless assault, dirty fighting, and deep wounds. All of these should vastly favor fast attacks much more than slow attacks. I don't have any numbers to back it up, but it makes sense that all of these talents will be way more useful if you're hitting more often! These are all multipliers, except for Deep Wounds. Whatever your raw damage is, they multiply it by XX amount (0.5, 0.2, etc). So the 2h rogue will hit less frequently but very hard leading to damage spikes while the dual-wielder will have more consistent damage over time. Ultimately, raw damage/time is what matters, and the 2h weapon wins in that regard as I mentioned earlier. As an example, take Reckless Assault, which does +20% damage: Dual wielder swings 2x in 2 seconds for 2*10*(1.2) = 24 damage in two swings over 2 seconds. 2H rogue swings 1x in 2s for 24.5*(1.2) = 29.4 damage in one swing every 2 seconds. The initial damage difference of 24.5 vs 20 is preserved here as 29.4 vs 24.

One issue is that two-handers definitely seem to have a leg over fast one-handers in many situations: Fast 1h weapons attack every 44 frames if dual wielded 2h weapons attack every 84 frames Thus, the dual wielder hits roughly 2x as often (slightly less actually). But looking at base damage (8-12 vs 20-29), 2h weapons deal more than 2x the damage of 1h weapons. This imbalance alone, combined with the Rogue's opportunity to have many "full attack" abilities with minimal recovery time, means 2h weapons appear strictly superior to dual-wielded fast weapons.

Here's another question: how do talents like Two Weapon Style (+20% attack speed) and weapon enchants for +20% attack speed figure in? Do they affect both attack animation and recovery animation? Do they affect just one? If so, which?

If you're dual-wielding anything, Vulnerable Attack is a strict improvement in DPS. Unsure if the same applies to two-handers but I doubt it, since DR consumes a smaller proportion of their damage overall. When you've maxed out on DR penetration, it seems to me that with any enemy whose DR you fully bypass, dual-wielding is superior, but when you start dealing with un-penetrated enemy DR, two-handers become better.

Really? That's not how my tests turned out. Got upwards of 10 crits with no procs, after the first one procced. Did your experience show otherwise? EDIT - the video in this thread showed just one jolting proc in that entire fight. Was there only one crit?

The only issue is that procs like Azureith's only trigger once per weapon per encounter. If you're using Azurieths in one hand and a normal stiletto in the other, you get one Jolting Touch proc per encounter. And if you use two different proc weapons, you get one of each proc per encounter. How does that affect your build?

So on further evaluation, it appears as if proc can occur once per encounter (per equipped weapon). So when I had just one copy of Azureith's Stiletto equipped, I got one proc per encounter. When I command console'd another onto my Rogue (strictly for testing!) I found that it would trigger twice, and looking at the timing, it was quite clear that each individual copy of the weapon had its own separate proc "tracker." Basically, when I ran from one combat to another within 3-4s, I almost immediately got 2 procs after seeing 2 procs in the previous fight. But in a prolonged fight (the spiders at the end of the intro dungeon), I only got a pair of procs despite swinging away for 10-15 seconds. There were more than enough crits to see if I'd get more, given that I hacked the toon up to level 12 and 80ish Accuracy. Seems like dual-wielding the stiletto with another proc weapon (e.g. Bleak Fang) is the most appropriate choice. UPDATE -- Bleak Fang also seems to work this way. I'm guessing all weapon procs are the same.

That was my thought. Plus, dual-wielding means that each weapon only hits once every 88 frames, whereas using it alone lets you swing every 56 frames with your weapon.

The aforementioned Azurieth's Stiletto, purchased in Gilded Vale, is an absolute monster. Crits from the Stiletto proc a full-featured Jolting Touch, which does 20-30 damage and which itself can crit. I've seen a crit for 77 just from the proc! How about building a Hearth Orlan Rogue with something like this? The attributes aren't min-maxed but I'm sure you guys can fiddle with those on your own. The only question is whether single- or dual-wielding is the best option for damage. MIGHT 16 CON 10 DEX 18 PER 12 INT 10 RES 12 Blinding Strike Reckless Assault Dirty Fighting Deathblows ??? ??? Deflecting Assault Vicious Fighting Weapon Focus: Ruffian One-Handed Weapon Style Vulnerable Attack Bloody Slaughter

Hey all, This isn't quite a bug but this skill's tooltip is quite misleading. It reads self: weakened, implying that the monk will get weakened as some part of the effect when this is not the case at all. Not sure if any other abilities have similar issues but it might be worth looking into changing this (and any other) tooltips which aren't quite accurate. Cheers!

I don't necessarily agree that every stat needs to be super-amazing for combat, if that's what you're saying. Could Perception/Resolve/Constitution get a bit better? Sure. However, it doesn't make quite a lot of sense for the smart, perceptive, resolved Rogue to spontaneously be excellent at combat. That Rogue shouldn't be as effective at combat as the Might/Dex/Int DPS Rogues we see, IMO. Maybe the gulf shouldn't be massive as it is now, but there should definitely be a difference in effectiveness between the two, or there wouldn't be much point to putting points into Might/Dex/Int. So what you're saying is that the Rogue who is perceptive, smart, and resolute is bad at being a rogue? Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. Well, not exactly, cause Int can be quite good for rogues. More I was saying that the perceptive, resolute, hardy rogue was bad at being a rogue, but yeah, we're on the same page there. Where we're not on the same page is...if you JUST look at combat (like I said about a dozen times in the post you quoted) why would you EVER make a perceptive, resolute, hardy rogue? There is literally no benefits in combat what-so-ever-at-all. He's just a really really really bad rogue who won't be able to do his job and still won't be able to tank because he's a rogue (or at least not as effectively as an actual tank class). By making a perceptive, resolute, hardy rogue, you are making an objectively inferior rogue for absolutely no reason. Out of combat, for RP, there could be reasons to make a resolute, perceptive, hard rogue. But you know that by doing that for RP/OOC reason, you are making your character objectively worse at combat. And that's a fine trade off to make. But from a purely combat standpoint, it's not a fine trade off. It's not a trade off at all. You're giving away good stats and getting literally nothing in return. To put it another way, you're saying "If I want to make a rogue who is perceptive, hardy, and resolute, he's not going to be as good at combat as other rogues, and that's okay." I agree with you. What I'm saying, on the other hand, is "If I want to make a rogue that's good at being a rogue in combat and is an effective member of my team, in combat, than any points I put into Constitution, Resolve, or Perception are wasted points that go against my stated goal of having a combat-proficient rogue, and that's not okay." Like I said, there's room for improvement, but not the point of putting Accuracy on Perception, for example. Right now you seriously suck if you build the perceptive/hardy/resolute Rogue, and that's an issue. I think the perceptive/hardy/resolute Rogue should be strictly inferior to the strong/coordinated/smart Rogue, but the gap shouldn't be as big as it is right now. You build the perceptive/hardy/resolute rogue for RP reasons? Fine, you get to RP. But you should be functional but not optimal in combat. Maybe 60-70% of what the strong/coordinated/smart rogue can put out? You won't be utterly useless, but you will not be as valuable as your strong/coordinated cousin. Right now it's more like 30% vs 100%, which is kind of an issue so I agree that something needs to change. But I don't want the Con/Per/Res Rogue to reach combat (read: DPS) parity with the Mig/Dex/Int Rogue, since that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Update: They do not work like the Burning/Corroding/etc Lash weapon enchantments you can find. My Rogue with 0 native elemental damage gained no additional damage with any of these talents. If they work, it's only with spells.

Let me second this. Does it work like weapon "XX Lash" procs? ie, you deal an additional 20% of the final damage dealt as an element, reduced by 20% of the enemy's elemental DR? Because that could make for some remarkable damage output.

I tend to agree with you, but here's my understanding: It might be because enemies seem to abuse it far more than we do. We are supposed to rely on it to keep things attached to our tanks and to penalize enemies for trying to walk away to hit the squishies in the backrow. However, what ends up happening is that lots of enemies have teleport at-wills like the Rogue's "Escape" ability, letting them freely disengage and get right up in the wizard's face. Furthermore, tougher enemies (read: bosses) basically ignore the pansy-ass Disengagement Attacks from our 5 Might/Max Deflection tanks who hit like wet noodles. How much of these issues stem from the game's newness and our unfamiliarity with the system? Once we discover more optimal approaches, will things change? I imagine that appropriate tactics (read: intelligent use of crowd control) can likely handle most of the teleporting mobs, but bosses are another problem entirely. To be fair, they're bosses and should probably be quite difficult, so maybe that's a non-issue after all.

I don't necessarily agree that every stat needs to be super-amazing for combat, if that's what you're saying. Could Perception/Resolve/Constitution get a bit better? Sure. However, it doesn't make quite a lot of sense for the smart, perceptive, resolved Rogue to spontaneously be excellent at combat. That Rogue shouldn't be as effective at combat as the Might/Dex/Int DPS Rogues we see, IMO. Maybe the gulf shouldn't be massive as it is now, but there should definitely be a difference in effectiveness between the two, or there wouldn't be much point to putting points into Might/Dex/Int.

Here's the thing. Game developers aren't on call 24/7. They have fixed hours and they often go above and beyond for no extra pay. But that doesn't mean they're expected to work on a Saturday or a Sunday for nothing. You wouldn't like it very much if you were pulled away from your family and life to work on a weekend, would you? It's not reasonable to expect these issues (Raedric, double clicking, modal abilities) to get rectified on a Sunday when they were first discovered late last week. They said it'd be out early this week so I'm sure they'd appreciate it if we were a little patient for a day or two. Of course we all want to play, but developers are people too.

Nah. Notice how it says (Base: 13-18)? That's your weapon's base damage. The 16-24 in your weapon tooltip is actually calculated after taking Might into account. 16-24 is your final expected damage range, AFTER Might has been added into the equation.

EDIT - Ignore this post. Other posters have indicated that priest robes aren't involved in their crashes.

Let me chime in and confirm that I have two "copies" of Reckless Assault active, but only one of them provides an Accuracy and damage bonus. They both reduce my character's Deflection by 8 each, however. Can't really keep playing the game with things as they are.

Why do you say that? Is it just about backstabs? Because in terms of steady damage, lack of wasted overkill, and even in terms of full damage special attacks (Crippling/Blinding/Fearsome Strike), it seems like dual-wielding one-handed weapons is probably superior to a single 2H weapon in a Rogue's hands.

Riposte allows an automatic free full-attack every time an enemy misses an attack against Deflection. Adept Evasion turns half of enemy grazes into misses, according to the gamepedia wiki. Do they work together? On a related note, what are the different ways we can optimize Deflection on a dual-wielding Rogue? So far I have: 1) Points in Resolve and Perception 2) Superior Deflection talent 3) Cautious Attack (does this stack with Vulnerable Attack and Reckless Assault?)

There's an accuracy bonus for wielding a one-handed weapon alone (without a shield, and without an off-hand weapon)? I guess there had to be some kind of perk to doing so, or there would be no real reason to skip out on the defense (shield) or damage (dual-wield) of choosing one of the other options, apart from role-playing reasons.

Hah. I'm getting flashbacks to when I played EVE, and not good ones. Anyway, as a generic pronouncement: The higher your might and the more % damage bonuses you stack, the more you want to be looking at dual-wielding. If you get most of your DMG bonuses as 1-hit activated abilities, it favors 2h, if its modals and passives, it probably favours dual-wielding. The lower your might and the amount of stacking damage bonuses you get, the more you want to look at weapons with DR reduction, and vice-versa. I still need to look at dexterity, but from what I understood from Sensuki's vids, the pronouncement that its only good on no-armor classes seems rubbish. I wonder if the bolded part is actually true. Many of the Rogue's abilities, for example, are called "full attacks," which from what I understand involve attacking with all equipped weapons. So even though the damage numbers on average suggest 20.5 for a 2h weapon vs 12.5 for a 1h weapon, the dual-wielder in this case would in fact hit twice. Of course, this likely means being smacked by enemy DR twice, but the difference between 2h and dual wield is likely much smaller than it seems, particularly with Vulnerable Attack and Stilettos in play.