Gairnulf

I know it does. I want to make it up to date and learn about the mechanics in the process. I'll try enchanting some weapon to see. I know different damage types are calculated separately, against different Damage Reduction ratings, and if the armor has no rating, then it should be against the character's base rating, but I will only put in the wiki stuff I've tested I wrote about Damage Threshold because I was looking at the wiki at the time. I knew it was really called Damage Reduction (for what this term is worth), but when I realized I had been using the wrong name it was too late to edit my post. I said I think it's misleading, meaning it's misleading for me. I only speak for myself. Why not - you roll away from the cloud of gas. I see nothing impossible or implausible about such an action. Well, they were unclear examples to me. This typology makes sense, but it's not based on any developer-posted or game content, so it's just your explanation for now. Because I see, and I quoted, types of damage associated with types of defence (slash/crush/pierce, with Deflection Defence) in material that's supposed to explain mechanics to players.

Well, I removed the question from the FAQ just now. It's a bummer, but it wasn't all that important for me personally.

Which one of these is true? If "values diverge", how can there be a "single value"? I don't understand.

Here is what I gathered from some staring at the Combat log: 1. Process of Attack Resolution: Attack roll = (Attacker Accuracy - Defender's Relevant Defence) + d100 Miss/Graze/Hit/Critical Hit adjustments = +/-5 for each 5 points of Attacker Accuracy -("minus") Defender's Relevant Defence Amount of Damage Caused is determined by whether it's a Miss/Graze/Hit/Critical Hit, and in cases where the weapon can cause more than one type of damage - which Damage Type the defender's Armor is weaker against, and then from Damage Caused, Damage Resistance of the armor is substracted for the relevant Damage Type. Finally, the value resulting from the last substraction is substracted from Health. Not sure if I didn't miss something. 2. There is no relation between the type of damage and the type of attack. You could be making an attack that does fire damage (and deals with target armor's Burn DR) but if you're making it with a weapon the attack is against the "Deflection Defence" and if you're making it with a spell the defence would be relevant to the spell's type - AoE-Reflex Defence or Single Target-Deflection Defence(?). My confusion was coming from the fact that in the Wiki, and (probably, can't/won't watch SA forums) in the relevant forum posts, three damage types are presented as if they are tied to Attacks only against Deflection Defence: I think this is really misleading. 3. Finally, something I can't seem to understand: Chill Fog is a spell which is an AoE spell but the save is vs. Fortitude, not Reflex. This runs against what is written in the Wiki, and in the game's "Cyclopedia": Well, Chill Fog is an AoE attack but it does Frost damage, and the defence is now based on Fortitude. Defence Type and Damage Reduction seem to be mixed once again?

Thank you very much Lephys. I'm beginning to understand where my confusion stems from. At least I know I'm not stupid, just the system's terms are very confusingly named (imo). The first thing that confuses me is that the PoE system uses names that were used for saving throws in D&D to name defences. BTW, I will always use the non-American spelling, and I find it ironic that a game where specific languages have been constructed fails to use stylistically correct English for its own terminology. Anyway, I have "deflection" which is just one of a set of "defences", although the two words sound terribly similar and their places could easily have been switched without making it seem strange, their meaning is similar enough for them to still have been applicable, and then I have other "defences" which are named as things I am used to seeing as saving throws - Reflex, Fortitude, Will Second - I have "defences", and then suddenly I have "Damage threshold"... wat? This terminology is really confusing - defence is something I normally take to signify the overall capability, how well-defended I am, taking into account and summing up all minute factors. But suddenly, there is "Damage threshold" - another factor which is in no way connected to my defence (taken as a game term, not in its "regular" meaning), and a term which I find confusing at first, but all it really means is the Armor Rating provided from equipment. OMG, Josh, please, when you are naming a term which is related to Armor, do not use the word "damage" in its name! This is like naming "Attack Roll" "Anti-Defence Roll", totally anti-intuitive. So we have 4 "Defences" - which are variable THAC0s for various types of Attacks, and "Damage Thresholds" are the variable AC for 8 damage types, and you can have a very high Damage Threshold against one of the 8 damage types but be very undefended when it comes to the other 7. It's starting to make sense... except, I don't know how damage is calculated. Weapons have damage values like "piercing: 13-27". Ok, which one is it, 13 or 27 or somewhere in between, and how is this decided? Third - I really don't understand this principle - that I can make an attack that does damage which attacks more than one type of defence. How is the attack roll calculated then? If I attack a target with a sword that does poison damage, I'm attacking against which defence? Deflection or Fortitude? And which damage type does poison go with? And while I'm at it, let's check what fortitude means: In-game: "Represents a character's endurance to "body system attacks" such as poison or disease." In Merriam-Webster's dictionary (i.e. in English): "mental strength and courage that allows someone to face danger, pain, etc." Once again, a word is used in a meaning that's completely arbitrary/has little to do with the actual meaning of the word. This certainly doesn't help me understand this system. Anyway, I've spent over an hour writing this and I'm as confused as I was in the beginning. :/

Of course, it's always possible whether by hand or by alt-tabbing and writing to a file. I've hardly ever used the feature in BGII, where important spots were already marked, at least when in the city. The FAQ on the wiki contains the question about map notes though, and I wonder if I should change the answer or not.

I've noticed that whenever there are elements listed in the left panel of the Character creation UI, for example the 11 classes, they are always listed horizontally and in alphabetical order. This means Chanter is to the right of Barbarian, the Cipher underneath Barbarian, etc. I've always hated this kind of ordering because it's particularly anti-intuitive. When the columns are higher than the rows are wide, it makes sense to order elements alphabetically in columns -- therefore Chanter should be underneath Barbarian, then Cipher under Chanter and so on, with Paladin being to the right of Barbarian, and then onward until Wizard at the bottom right. In my practice I've always been scolded for arranging lists on webpage layouts in the manner in which classes are listed in the Character Creation UI. It's simply wrong. Fix it nao! I realize this UI will not be used especially often, but it would be keeping with good practices. So please.

Also, have you noticed how scrolling the scrollable panels on the right side of the character creation screen affects lighting over the characters which are in the center?

Yep, I've already started rewriting the table.

I could use a stopwatch too, but then I'd have to add the hours from the sessions somewhere in a file, and I'm not feeling all that disciplined

From a quick test, Melee and Ranged Accuracy seem to start with equal values, contrary to what it says in the wiki. A question for BMac or any developer who can answer - how do Ranged and Melee accuracy values progress when characters level up - in the character creation interface it says, for example "Accuracy: 30 + 3/Level (High)". First, this is sort of misleading, because the "per level" additions come only after the first level-up, i.e. from level 2 onward. So, maybe it should have been "27 + 3/Level". Second, which "accuracy" is this "30"? Is it my Ranged or Melee accuracy. If the starting values for Ranged and Melee are different, then do they progress differently when I level up, and how do they progress? When I removed my lvl 4 BB Fighter's weapons the Inventory window was showing "Primary: 39" and "Secondary: 39" which was apparently his main hand and off hand in the active weapon set. When I gave him a Fine War Bow, its accuracy bonus seemed to have been added to the same value of 39, because the accuracy value in the Inventory window became 43. This means that the Ranged and Melee accuracy values were the same - 39. Could you explain all of this in more detail? If all the classes' accuracy values for melee and ranged are the same, then I should delete the extra-column in the wiki and just go with one accuracy value.

This thread is moving towards an unfortunate end... Why is it that trollbait always sparks long exchanges and sensible subjects hardly any?

And then you load your last savegame, which you most probably made before the battle. I think the long- and short-term health separation is one of the best things in PoE's game mechanics.

I was thinking about this today. I'm still undecided whether to get a GOG or a Steam key, and I see Steam's tracking of playing hours feature as an advantage.

Maybe I'm just stupid (of course I don't really believe that), and maybe the mechanics have been changing a lot through the beta builds. I won't go through it all because I'll probably get it wrong, but first we had a DT and DR, not sure what each of them was doing, now we have only DT (I think), accuracy is no longer tied to an attribute, etc. After 60 hours with the BB I still have only the vaguest idea of how combat resolution happens. And no, the wiki is no help (for me). The messy combat log isn't helping either. If I have to explain PoE combat to someone coming from PnP for example, I'm not sure I'd manage. I want to write a good page about combat resolution on the wiki, with detailed examples, so that a newcomer can estimate the effectiveness of his character with various weapons.

And BTW - it takes a nationalist to start whining about nationalism

There is this nice table in Character creation though, and it has columns for Melee and Ranged accuracy. I guess they have changed since they were put in, but I wonder how can I see them. If I start a new game with a given class, equip a melee weapon, check the accuracy stat in the Inventory or Character window, then equip a ranged weapon and check the accuracy stat again, will that do? I guess if the weapon doesn't have any special abilities that add to accuracy, just equipping it will show the base values for the class, right?

Thanks, but my question is with regards to how I should edit the Character creation page and possibly other pages in the wiki. I think we could use a "Combat Resolution" page with easy to understand examples.

That's the stuff we get to when there is no 'Obsidian Kids!' subforum.

So there is no way to see the initial melee/ranged accuracy for a class, apart from starting a game with a given class and checking his accuracy in the character sheet first with a melee then with a ranged weapon? I'm asking because the two types of accuracy are not visible during character creation, and I want to update the wiki with their current base values.

Do these still exist as separate stats? They are shown as such in the wiki: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Character_creation#Class but I don't see them anywhere ingame.

Should players who downloaded from GOG expect significantly slower delivery of game patches, like more than one day after the Steam update has arrived?

I see. So it does shrink it, but does it also pop it out?

You mean on the left side? I thought that one just resized the width.

Here is another something that occurred to me while playing - why not add a flap on top border of the combat log which expands it by some amount of height and then returns it back to its default height, to remove the need for dragging up and down each time? Or alternatively, two flaps for up/down on the right side of the combat log, like Baldur's Gate combat log was resized.