GhostofAnakin

Probably because he's the only one without a backstory, and thus easiest to implement whichever way they feel without worrying about contradicting something from the first game.

btw, I apologize for the remark about spelling and grammar. but my point about Hades never even being on topic still stands.

He doesn't stay on topic at all. He just repeats the exact same thing regardless of topic. It's like this: Topic: New lightsaber colors His response: Who cares? We're forced to play as Jedi Topic: New screen shots His response: Who cares? We're forced to play as Jedi Topic: New powers His response: Who cares? We're forced to play as Jedi Topic: Release Date His response: Who cares? We're forced to play as Jedi Topic: System Requirements His response: Who cares? We're forced to play as Jedi I wouldn't call that staying on topic.

LOL you're fine with Hades_One spamming the forums with his hatred of the KOTOR game, but you find this offensive? ps. when you're referring to more than one person, "is" becomes "are"

I think Ender said he's available any night except tuesday. but don't quote me on that.

Enderwiggin posted a couple of links to sites that have some info. I'm not sure if you'll need more than what's on those sites. As for me, I'm available most nights, but as Eru said, just as long as I know in advance.

I guess we see your maturity level come to the forefront then.

See, this is the problem people have with you and your posts. Having an opinion on the game is fine. You have just as much right as anyone else does. But then you post something inflamatory like that and all of a sudden it's no longer just your opinion on the game, but basically calling everyone who will buy the game "idiots". This is the kind of attitude that most people don't respect, since you are no longer just stating your opinion.

Was this directed at me? Because you've got one of my quotes in there, but you've got the statement about "status quo" which i never made...

You are rationalizing your arguments simply because you have your beef with the game. It's like saying you'll vote for a politician because at least they admit to being a scumbag. Character generation did affect the way you progressed through the game, albiet not a whole lot....KOTOR did have a heavy focus on combat. But to claim you like FF better because they are "honest" is a poor defense. Either you like something, or you don't. The reason why you complain about it is because you do not like the way the game was implemented, and clearly you are a Star Wars aficianado, so anything in Star Wars that seems to deviate or anything (which you claim KOTOR does) becomes bad. Hades' complaints just give you another avenue to complain. As for it "sucking" to play a developers character down two storylines.....welcome to the statusquo (well not quite...since most games only offer one storyline). Sure, KOTOR didn't have to force you to be a Jedi, but Bioware stated from the get go that your character was going to become a Jedi. Bioware didn't pretend that you could play the game entirely as a class other than a Jedi. Anyone that thought otherwise is a fool (which is probably why they are ticked...no one likes being played a fool). As for how many times you finish a game: it's anecdotal and irrelevant. I am currently playing through it for the fourth time. I've also played through Half-Life about five times, FF7 at least twice (maybe 3 times). I'm also currently on my second go round with FF6. I just recently finished Call of Duty for the third time. So you only played KOTOR once. Big whoop. If you didn't like it, then wait for reviews for KOTOR II, and then make your decision. amen. it seems a common theme that those who disliked something about the game or those who disliked the entire premise of the game use that as their "proof" that the game sucked. i could name something i disliked about EVERY single game i've played, even ones that are considered some of the best ever. does the fact they have something that i didn't like it in mean they weren't good games? no. drakron, you obviously know your Star Wars. but don't try to come off as holier-than-thou to us other Star Wars fans. i know a good deal about Star Wars myself. i understand all the nuances. i don't need to be told that my view of Star Wars is wrong just because someone who has memorized every aspect of the SW universe believes so.

so have we decided on time period and such yet? i can't recall reading it, but how exactly is this going to work? are we all going into a chat room or something?

Rather ironic final statement there buddy. We're not the ones being close minded, Hades is. He insists that KOTOR sucks because he couldn't play as a character he wanted. He's the one that won't get it through his head that the game was intended as Jedi vs. Sith. I've already stated that the Star Wars universe itself isn't necessarily Jedi vs. Sith, but THIS SPECIFIC GAME was about that. I've said this countless times in different threads. I would LOVE to be able to play a character as Hades suggests. It WOULD give much more replay value. But at the same time, I seem to be able to grasp that in THIS game, in THIS context, the only viable choice was to make the PC a Jedi since the end boss and how the game is played out warranted it. The problem is he (and apparently you) are making the arguement that since the SW universe has all sorts of different characters, then every specific game should incorporate that. That's just not possible. The fact that he wants to play as a scoundrel isn't what I keep getting on his case about. The fact that he seems to not understand that in THIS specific storyline, it wouldn't work.

I give up. Go on trolling the forums. I'm done trying to reason logic with someone as closeminded as you.

Bioware should have done a better job in writing the storyline of KotOR to allow all plausible actions within the scope of the game's setting. Don't put the blame on me due to Bioware's shoddy work. Uhh? the game was about Jedi fighting the Sith. Did you expect them to make an ending for every single possible creature/class in the entire Star Wars universe? Maybe they should have made a 4th ending so you could play as a Rancor monster. Or maybe a fifth for those who wanted to play as a Hutt. Just because the SW galaxy encompasses all different species, doesn't mean that THIS specific game has to. You played X-Wing. You said you liked it. You weren't able to play as a Jedi in X-Wing. You weren't able to fly the Millennium Falcon in X-Wing. So was that a flaw in the game design? No. For that specific game, it just didn't fit with the storyline.

Actually I do get that. I'm bringing it up because you're too stubborn and thickheaded to get the fact that what YOU want doesn't fit in the storyline of the KOTOR game.

So basically it goes back to you wanting them to re-write the main plot of the story. Which then goes with my arguement that Fallout should have catered for every possible character, including Jedi.

Technically, ANYTHING can occur. Hell, in the world of make believe, an Ewok could defeat the Emperor. But the point is, if you want any semblance of realism, Revan had to have Force powers in order to defeat Malak. ESPECIALLY for the DS ending to work. No Sith is going to pledge their allegiance to a Scoundrel as their new Sith Lord.

The story would still have to be altered though. You couldn't have Malak as the end boss if Revan was just a smuggler. There is NO way a smuggler can defeat a Sith Lord. Han Solo was probably the greatest smuggler the SW universe has ever known, but how well did he do against Darth Vader with his blaster? Vader simply deflected his blaster bolt with his hand. The point of KOTOR is to defeat Malak and either a)save the galaxy or b)reclaim the mantle of Sith Lord. It's simply impossible to have done that with any realism if Revan was only a smuggler.

The setting means nothing to my arguement. My point is I wanted to play as a certain character type and wasn't allowed to. You complain that you can't play as a character you want to play as. We're both not allowed to play as a character we want. So therefore, by your logic, Fallout is a flawed game because it restricts you. Also, the point is that in KOTOR there is NO other character that is central to the story than a Jedi. You are Revan. The story would not have worked if Revan was just a scoundrel or a smuggler. So keeping in mind that the story revolves around you being Revan, for your complaints to work, they'd have had to re-write who Revan was. Which is essentially what you're telling me I can't ask from Fallout. I want them to re-write the character so that Jedi are included in their little "universe". It's basically the same arguement. Well, except the fact that I seem to grasp the fact that what I have suggested just wouldn't fit with the Fallout storyline.

You didn't answer my question though. I wanted to play a Jedi in Fallout. The game wouldn't let me. So then by your arguement the game sucks then right?

Oh and btw, to use your own arguement against you, I wanted to be a Jedi in Fallout, but I wasn't able to. Does that mean that game sucks because the developers wouldn't let me be the character that I wanted to play as? See how rediculous your arguement is? If you still believe your arguement isn't rediculous, then explain to me how Fallout is better than KOTOR in allowing you to play as any character when it clearly did not give me the option to play as a Jedi.

Do you not understand the basic underlining storyline? What you want would require a COMPLETE re-write of the story. The fact that this should be given knowledge going in should tell you that perhaps this game isn't right for you. The fact that you got angry at having to play as a Jedi proves that you're not really good at understanding what a story is all about and connecting the dots that a)hmm you fight a Sith Lord so then b)that must mean I have Jedi powers.

You should probably rephrase that to "It's too bad I have to play as a Jedi" since the rest of us understand that the game is designed around the PC being a Jedi. Since we're here following the game, I think it is clear that we don't think it is too bad to have to play as a Jedi. You're in the minority Hades......not everyone thinks that a game has to give complete freedom of character development in order to be good (in fact I'd wager that very few feel that it is quite the necessity you make it out to be). Not everyone knows what makes a good crpg either. Geeze, you're arrogant. Newsflash; you are not the be all and end all authority on what makes a good RPG. Get over yourself.

I was VERY disappointed with the Jedi Academy Trilogy for a few reasons. 1-The way they portrayed Luke. He seemed VERY weak and not very strong in the Force. It took 12 students, who, by all accounts, werent very powerful, to save him. 2-As Enderwiggin stated, the Exar Kun thing. 12 students with very little training were able to defeat him. It might have been more plausible if it was Kyp Durron (since they made him out to be very strong in the Force) turned back to the LS and helped Luke defeat Exar Kun. Somehow I can picture the Hero of the Rebellion and a child prodigy being able to defeat Kun more than I can picture 12 weak students doing it. 3-The Sun Crusher. The absolute most rediculous idea ever. A few more minor details also bugged me. But those were the major ones. As for the X-Wing series, I read some of the books, but I just couldn't get in to them, mainly because I'm a big Jedi fan. And except for Corran Horn (who wasn't even that accomplished a Jedi at the time), the X-Wing series lacked Jedi and Force useage. On the official Star Wars forum, the publishers announced another 9 book series post NJO. I'm hoping that they move on to a new set of characters and just let Luke, Leia and Han go in to retirement. I mean, geeze, how many times do these people have to save the galaxy. Give them a break already and let them live in peace.

Actually, you are given a choice. Just because someone disagrees with your point of view doesn't necessitate a condescending attitude. It's a debate of opinions. No reason to get personal or talk down to someone. Even if you don't agree with him and think his views are garbage, that doesn't automatically mean you have to start being condescending in your tone. That's how flame wars start because the topic strays from the actual debate to a more personal bitch fest.