Obireel Y Doncha

Well, cuz it's there. Ba hahaha! Having a more realistic inventory system (encumbrance limits, character inventories instead of universal inventories every party member can access -- even when they're off on separate side trips, a place to store gear you don't want to carry, wear and damage to gear) would be a good thing in a SW RPG. But just not for the third installment of what's shaping up to be a trilogy. The developers should be socking away these ideas to use while developing a more hardcore SW RPG after KOTOR3. For 3, they oughta stick to the engine they have with tweaks were they're needed. For KOTOR 3, though, something should be done about obvious inconsistencies in the Random Loot Generator like finding a double-bladed sword in a Gizka's belly. That's why I like Hades' idea of having multiple random loot lists to be used in different situations. It's simple, elegant and seems like it would be fairly easy to implement in the existing game. While I'm sure a lot of us who lurk in here would appreciate a more realistic inventory management system, KOTOR's also designed for more casual players and I don't think it would be good form or wise marketing to yank an easy-to-manage game system out from under them while they're in the middle of a three-part story. Plus, wholesale redesigns seem like they would really delay the release of 3. I wanna get on with the story.

Lorsa's spiel really had me going too. SIDEQUEST SPOILAGE AHEAD: Everything she said was real plausible and it arguably makes more sense in the short-run (which is all corporations and governemnts can think in anyway) to be sure to tie economic development into environmental restoration. I stopped playing for a while to think about it. But I think the way it plays out you find out that all Lorsa's politically correct enviro-speak was just the smokescreen Czerka puts up to hide the fact they're trying to use the project to milk the Republic for credits. I realized she was lying when she asked me to steal a 2nd-rate droid from the Ithorian (sp?) guys. If they really had a good business plan for restoring Telos, they wouldn't need to steal and they wouldn't use a second-rate droid. How do you black that stuff out? I tried color=black but it didn't help...

Anymore I just leave STR at 8, and maybe take it up to 10 during level-ups. Well-modified blasters seem far more potent than back in KOTOR, making STR even more obsolete. The only bad part so far is I've got the Exile to Level 20 and the Handmaiden dominates him on the practice mat.

One thing I don't want in KOTOR3 is a new game engine. I do think that's a real good idea, but something to be reserved for a subsequent generation of SW RPGs. For the final chapter of this trilogy, I'd like the game to work pretty much the same as the earlier installments (except for any necessary tweaks, a course). The main thing I think needs tweaking in the engine is the tendency of some enemies to stop at the edge of whatever room they happen to be in and stand there passively to get slaughtered by the party. That's really screwing with my suspension of disbelief (while at the same time I cna't stop myself from exploiting that glitch). If that can't be fixed, at least the levels should be designed so that you can't strike and/or shoot at enemies who are incapable of fighting back. The cliffhanger ending makes it seem inevitable that we're looking foward to a game that brings Revan and the Exile into the same fight and resolves their stories. I think it would be real interesting if it would be up to the player if Revan and the Exile end up working together or end up on opposite sides of a Dark/Light showdown. There's three sides to the climactic fight suggested in the first two games: 1. Fight for the Light to preserve the Force and restore the Jedi Order 2. Fight for the Dark to preserve the Froce and rebuild the Sith Order 3. Fight to destroy the Force so Jedi and Sith can no longer use it to manipulate the galaxy (Could be a neutral PC quest, or Light sided (end the suffering wrought by battles over the Force) or Dark sided (killing the Force to eliminate the Light/Dark balance and ushers in an era of unbridled evil) Since the game'll be on a different platform, it probably wouldn't be able to import the look of your PCs from the first two games, but there should be a character development screen on which you can build models for Revan and the Exile (with heads from both games, of course) and assign them the powers you want them to have. I imagine we'll have a new PC for the new game, but I also think it would be cool if you could directly play Revan and the Exile as well, but each PC would be the head of a different party of NPCs. You'd have three parties starting in different parts of the galaxy pursuing different quests that eventually bring them into contact and possible conflict. At some point before the new PC is fully leveled up, the new PC will need to choose whether to stand with Revan, The Exile or stand against them both. At that point, maybe you lose control of the other two parties and see how well your new PC can stand up to an antagonist of your own creation. I want as many of the old characters from both games back as possible, except Carth of course. (I'm kidding! I've always liked Carth and think he gets a bad rap.) I wouldn't mind at all if even characters who may have died on the Unknown Planet got resurrected somehow (some side effect of the destruction of the Star Forge or something Revan did on purpose). A DS Revan would be that much D'er with a broken Jolee, Juhani and Mission under his thumb. A LS Revan reunited with those loyal buds would inject a little bit of the lighter mood of KOTOR into KOTOR3. I wanna find out that Mandalore isn't Canderous at all, but a close relative. I want Canderous back at Revan's side, Light or Dark. I like the idea of recycling all the planets from both games (nostalgia and quicker development) with another four or five worlds thrown in. Except Manaan. I'm kidding! Maybe I'm not kidding... no, I am kidding. I really liked all the additional times in 2 that your party split up and you had more time to play and get to know your various NPCs. I'd like a bunch more of that in 3. But what's this I hear about KOTOR3 development being on hold?

"Tough"? What's this guy's problem? He's even "blaming the developers" for stuff that hasn't even happened yet (too much combat in KOTOR3). The game's already incredibly balanced in favor of the player. The vast increase in stuff we're talking about would throw balance off even more. That's all I'm saying. Volourn's probably the lone voice in the wilderness calling for less combat in a KOTOR game. Volourn's argument doesn't really hold up anyway, if he meant "There should be a high chance their items exist IN WORKING CONDITION." Melee weapons, blaster fire, and lightsabers would do a great deal of damage (it's why they're used to bash stuff open and kill things). The loser of a fight isn't just going to have a broken body, a lot of his/her/its equipment is going to get busted up as well.) Add in stuff like plasma grenades and Force Storm and it's downright unlikely you'd find useable equipment on a fallen enemy.

I'm not a big fan of this idea, but I gotta admit it really does make more sense than dual wield proficiency =ing doublebladed proficiency. I think even in the movies somebody mentions that the doublebladed technique is incredibly difficult and so it probably oughta be handled as a separate skill. I rarely've played KOTOR doublebladed and haven't played KOTOR2 that way so maybe someone can tell me: Is doublebladed significantly better than/different from fighting with two singlebladed lightsabers? It seemed to me in KOTOR that role-playing and different fight animations were the only real reasons for going doublebladed, since two single-bladed sabers let you get extra bonuses from two more crystals. With three more upgrade slots on lightsabers, it would seem that the advantage of carrying two 'sabers would be that much greater in KOTOR2. But I dunno, maybe doublebladed 'sabers are so much better that they negate any advange you get from the extra upgrades. Is it a matter of personal preference or is there a real functional difference?

This is the idea that should be incorporated into KOTOR3. I think there should be a good chance that the enemies primary and secondary weapons WON'T be available (just tell youself it was lost or damaged in the fight). Otherwise you'd end up with way too much stuff. I'm sure you were thinking of this, but there should also be multiple subtypes for lockers, footlockers and other containers, based on location.

I agree on the aesthetics of the masks. They're obviously not meant to be pretty. Mostly I'll only have a character don one if it's absolutely necesssary. But you can give masks to Mandalore, Kreia and, I'm pretty sure, Miras and the mask won't be visible (with Mandalore you figure it must be under his helmet. With the other two I figure there must be some difficulty displaying headgear on figures with hoods). Yeah, and I almost bought the game until I found out you couldn't raise your hood.

"I don't like droids because they break, in the head." "Deet doot deet." "Well, whatever you call that thing on your ... head."

Thanks kalfear. That means something coming from you. I've only been in here a couple days but already had you pegged as someone worth reading. I've been looking at some of Obsidian's other KOTOR boards today and they don't seem so dominated by negativity. This XBox board must've been built on an old Indian burial mound or something.

I voted "combat" but I shoulda said "both." If an RPG or FPS doesn't promise a good story, I won't bother to play it once. But if it didn't have good combat, I won't bother to play it twice.

By now I forgot the question, but if it was which game to you like better, I'd have to say it's still a jump ball. If it was which game IS better, I'd have to say 2 is the better game. But that's kinda unfair cuz 2 is really built on the shoulders of 1. Smoothing out rough patches, expanding on dialogs and relationships, equipment and workbenches. You wouldn't have 2 without 1. I think 2's story is better in a lot of ways. NPC backstories and motivations are more complex, the overall tone is much more nuanced and darker. It asks more questions than 1 and doesn't give up many answers. And that might be part a why I think I might "like" 1's story better. It's a more straightforward Star Wars morality play (played LS anyway). The good guys are really good and the bad guys are really bad and the neutral guy, he's really just a kinda antisocial good guy. I'm not saying it's better -- I'm still torn -- but it's definitely more "likeable."

The way the story left off, I thought KOTOR3 would take place right on the heels of KOTOR2. Early on, GOTO suggests the Empire is within a month of collapse and I didn't get the sense that everything was OK at the end of the game, so the game might even take place within that time frame.

I totally agree Kreia's the best character in the game (maybe both games), but she's not the coolest. I gave my vote to Mira. I favor LS types. She went through as tough a background story as any of the NPCs, but she has a cool attitude about it even before you meet her. Atton's career as a Sith cost him big coolness points in my book, or he'd top my list.

I'll admit this is a cheesy tactic and you might already know about it and don't want to lower yourself to my level but: You can use medpacs and stims and activate shields instantly (without taking a combat round) by hitting "Start", going to the inventory screen and highlighting what you want to use, then hitting the "A" button to use it. You can only use one item per round this way. You'll get a little notice dialog box if you try it more than once in a round. No harm done. So about every round (like every six seconds) go into the Inventory screen. If you don't need health, jam in a stamina stim to slow the rate you lose health or a alacrity or strength stim to increase your chance of hitting or increase the damage you deal from melee weapons. If you're already doing that and the bartender trick doesn't work, maybe try running outta the room to see if you can get just one of them to follow you so you can deal with them one at a time. There's also the run-away-turn-and-shoot method of knocking out melee opponents. If you can keep enough distance between you and them you can eventually kill them without getting cut up much at all. Good luck.

Awright! I have the record: 81hr29min. It seems like I went straight through; at "Normal" difficulty I only got killed, like, three times (didn't lose any NPCs) but: A. I ain't in no hurry (what's the hurry?) B. I creep around in slo-mo planting mines a lot. C. I talk to about everybody and sightsee. D. I play a lot a pazaak (win more than I lose, mostly) E. I tried swoop racing a lot (I suck at swoop racing so much DirtDevil offered to sponsor my bike!) F. I spent tons of time messing around with the workbench (turns out I didn't need to at "Normal" but I'm glad for all the new options now that I'm wading through at "Difficult.")

Thanks Frankychan. I think the KOTOR games are making great strides in producing an almost cinematic role-playing experience with hundreds if not thousands of paths that all still have to come home to the same set of milestones and the same climactic set-up. It's almost inevitable that when you take a product that ambitious and put it in the hands of millions of users that some glitches are going to be revealed. I figure one of the reasons Obsidian maintains this board is to give us a forum to relate those problems so they can make future games (and PC-version patches) even better. I don't believe there's any reason for people to be such pricks about it, but it ain't my place to tell them how to act. (I think they probably did rush it to the stores for some reason. I seem to remember mid 2005 as the anticipated release date when the project started. The end product would've benefited from a couple months' intensive playtesting, but I don't know what's going on with Obsidian. Somebody said they're a small company, maybe they just needed some income to meet payroll. Whatever. The glitches I came across were minor, more interesting than annoying. They certainly weren't worth getting pissed off about.) I guess it's easier for me to suspend disbelief than some people, but the only glitchy/weird things that really stood out for me my first time through: a. What's with the wicker baskets? They made sense in the couple primitive villages you visit in KOTOR, in KOTOR2 it seemed like someone was shopping at Pier One. b. After you cut a deal to get fuel from, uh, the big guy, you oughta be able to go RIGHT BACK you-know-where and tell you-know-who. The big guy specifically tells YOU to deliver the message since the would-be clients ain't eager to talk to him, and the fuel situation is presented as an emergency. I'm not sure you ever really can settle it. Some people seem to want to stare into those (and other) glitches and brood and get angry and get abusive towards the developers and anyone who isn't also eaten up over it. That path leads to the Dark Side, and it's just plain infantile and stupid. I'd sooner look at those glitches as opportunities to make KOTOR3 even better than its predecessors, and I figure the folks at Obsidian see it the same way. I was on the KOTOR boards for a long time and I'm pretty sure the Obsidian folks paid a lot of attention to folks complaints and requests developing KOTOR2. I think the franchise is in good hands. I sure wouldn't trust it with half these crybabies who can only come in here spitting insults and stomping their little feet.

You assume I had lots of crashes.... why? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Save it. The only epiphany you've inspired in me is not to waste time trying to engage in a dialog with negative, impulsively nasty, bitter prying little weirdos.

Did I say "gerbils"? Gands. At 3 a.m., in the dark, they sure looked like gerbils. Turns out the bar weren't too tough the second time through. What worked for me was sniping at someone from the blastdoor, then backing deeper into the airlock when a bunch of 'em rushed me. The doors reclosed and I was able to fight, like, half of 'em at a time. Then it was just a matter of stealthing around and finishing off the guys in the little corner rooms. First time, I think I musta gone too deep into the room when the fight broke out and everybody was on me with a quickness. I actually had all the pieces I needed (first time through I had everything but a lens and Bao Dur wouldn't let me use the lens I made at the workbench. I guess your first lens needs to be a gift or something you found).Anyway, that guy who needs help finding his wife in the refuge sector gave me a lens for helping him and I'd already picked up the other components here and there. It was my own fault for saying "let's get going" instead of "I gotta take care of a couple things" when the invite to meet Vizquiz (sp?) arrived. (Think then click! I always get that backwards) I imagine any planet you go to first there's a chance to pick up a lens on a sidequest. Both times it's been LS male sentinel (Revan a LS male). First time I went on to Jedi Master (seemed to fit, role-playing-wise, with the job of training the next generation of Jedi). This time I might go Watchman just to see what that's all about. I expect I'll go in as a female consular my third time through. I might upgrade to one of the weapons specialties from there. All the times I played KOTOR, I never played a soldier or guardian and I thought it might be nice to play through without having to creep around planting mines all the time.

I've busted a bunch of stuff bashing open containers. It took me a while to realize what was happening. Playing as a Sentinel I let my security skill get up around 10 or 12. That might've been overkill once you have Atton and a few other NPCs to pick locks, but there might be some upgrade items you can only make with higher security skill.

Yeah, this is my first time through at "Difficult" and my arsenal is woefully understocked. I'm currently stuck trying to get through the poison gas bar on Citadel Station. I think I prob'ly shoulda built my lightsaber before going in, but I hit "let's go" w/o thinking and now the game won't let me back into the 'Hawk until I'm done. Last night I managed to get all the way through the Red Room only to get mobbed and killed by a bunch a gerbils at the blastdoors to the first green room. Gerbils!

Well, I hate when people get all nasty and ****. Bottom line, the Obsidian Devs made a really good game that isn't perfect and didn't perfectly meet everyone's expectations. Listen: ****eater, You started the comparisons between the availability of goods on Earth today and KOTOR2 in a galaxy far, far away, so I mentioned that military hardware stays in production for decades. Since you admit even you understand the comparison, I just gotta assume from the rest of your tone you're just upset cuz I proved your comparison was, like its author, utterly stupid.

Poor Atton! On that fight on Telos, I got The Exhile and Atton killed right away by those first four mercs, and I barely knicked one of them. I ran Bao Dur around the cliff where you come in to lay down a minefield to lure the mercs into (it actually worked on a couple of 'em). Anyway, Atton kept getting up and getting blasted back down again while Bao Dur was squirreling around. It helped (Bao Dur would come around the corner and get in a few shots at the mercs while they were busy re-killing Atton) but I was, like, "Man, no wonder he's a deserter!"

And I hate mealy-mouthed little jackasses who feel some need to turn every exchange into a series of insults and daunts. So I guess we're even. Ba hahah hahhaha!

Wow within a five year span here on earth there are plenty of new things that get created. The items could be made by the same company and look similar I would have no problem with that but using the same items from the previous game and slapping a new name on them is just plain being lazy. Look at the Sith mask aka the hunters mask for starters. Instead of designing a new mask they just use the old mask from K1. Good thing the Sith wrote their names on the back of their masks in those days otherwise they would be confused as all hell. Cheers! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yer right about consumer goods, but military hardware doesn't change with the seasons. You see some new stuff and you see lots and lots of stuff that has been around for decades. Some countries were still using WWII Soviet tanks in the 80s and probably more recently. AK-47s, Kalishnikovs, these've been around for decades. I'm not saying "Don't bemoan Obsidian's failure to needlessly fully replace all the gear from KOTOR 1" if that's how you feel, just don't expect your argument that it's somehow ridiculous to hold much water. You just wanted something different and you're disappointed.