Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

The Azunite Church


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1
Sannom

Sannom

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1267 posts
  • Backer
The Azunite Church as an organization is relatively invisible during the course of the game, the story focusing on what we can call its 'hand', Jeyne Kassynder, as the main antagonist, and the Church simply following her as they consider her to be a Saint.

But Jeyne's ending when you spare her and ask her to help you rebuild Ehb has her being declared an Apostate by the Church after she asks her follower to stop fighting the Legion and the Royal Court, and she is presumably being targeted for assassination right after that.

Did the Azunite Church intend to become the sole ruler of Ehb and counted on Jeyne to make it happen? Is that why they declared her an apostate, to avoid having all their believers rally to a banner that no longer intends to follow their plans? Could the Church declare open rebellion against the Crown in the near future?

#2
Oner

Oner

    Loner of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 7012 posts
  • Backer
I'd say the answer is Yes, to all of them.

#3
Tale

Tale

    Forum Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 9565 posts
  • Location:Home is where the heart is, mine is in my chest.
  • Xbox Gamertag:Tale82
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I kind of took it as them simply not appreciating her change in direction. Whatever the original intent was, they went with it, then were abandoned. They might try following it through or might calm down.

Though, them trying to continue without her would be the most interesting.

#4
C2B

C2B

    Lazy Assistant of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 4080 posts
  • Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
May also have something to do that Jeyne basically used the church towards the end for her own needs.

#5
Sasha_Je

Sasha_Je

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 82 posts
I think there are some missing links in the hole story of Dungeon Siege. Dungeon Siege I is about The Farmer and the Seck. 10th Legion was mentioned in the Lore but i found nowhere that The Farmer was part of the 10th Legion. Maybe after she saved the kingdom, I don't really remember the story. In Dungeon Siege II the story was about Zaramoth The Unmaker and Azunai The Defender. Azunai was a chieftain who had a magical shield and battled the evil Zaramoth in the past...and now Valdis thinks he is Zaramoth reborn ed and wants to destroy Ebh and re-build a world based on his own vision ( the plot is more complex but it's not about this ). Overall Azunai was a defender of Ehb, so how come in Dungeon Siege III there is a church? And on top of everything how come this church supports Jayne? The people who saw Azunai as a God worshiped him because he saved the kingdom and now they want to gather power to rule Ehb? And in that time the 10th Legion where a military organization that where "working" in order to keep Ehb safe and so on...hmm...if the 10th Legion knew The Farmer and all her companions how come they did not know Azunai or his deeds. I don't know it's pretty strange that you have to fight against Azunai Church. And to be honest Dungeon Siege should be a epic fantasy game and not some medieval game...we should have seen strange cults and secret organizations and not churches.
And I saw someone saying that the Radiant Youth was the spirit of Azunai ( or was this info found in-game? not sure ) well if that is true how come "his" church defends Jayne?
For me it's kinda strange and it looks like there are some loops in the story.

#6
C2B

C2B

    Lazy Assistant of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 4080 posts
  • Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

I think there are some missing links in the hole story of Dungeon Siege. Dungeon Siege I is about The Farmer and the Seck. 10th Legion was mentioned in the Lore but i found nowhere that The Farmer was part of the 10th Legion. Maybe after she saved the kingdom, I don't really remember the story. In Dungeon Siege II the story was about Zaramoth The Unmaker and Azunai The Defender. Azunai was a chieftain who had a magical shield and battled the evil Zaramoth in the past...and now Valdis thinks he is Zaramoth reborn ed and wants to destroy Ebh and re-build a world based on his own vision ( the plot is more complex but it's not about this ). Overall Azunai was a defender of Ehb, so how come in Dungeon Siege III there is a church? And on top of everything how come this church supports Jayne? The people who saw Azunai as a God worshiped him because he saved the kingdom and now they want to gather power to rule Ehb? And in that time the 10th Legion where a military organization that where "working" in order to keep Ehb safe and so on...hmm...if the 10th Legion knew The Farmer and all her companions how come they did not know Azunai or his deeds. I don't know it's pretty strange that you have to fight against Azunai Church. And to be honest Dungeon Siege should be a epic fantasy game and not some medieval game...we should have seen strange cults and secret organizations and not churches.
And I saw someone saying that the Radiant Youth was the spirit of Azunai ( or was this info found in-game? not sure ) well if that is true how come "his" church defends Jayne?
For me it's kinda strange and it looks like there are some loops in the story.


1. Question answered in timeline (which exists ingame)
2. Either the church was founded after DSII or it existed before and just grew since then. Both is not a stretch since Azunai was already worshipped as a god in previous games and had tons of followers.
3. The churchs people didn't want "to rule Ehb" originally. Nor did they really know about Jeynes connection. Raijani mentions that Jeynes goal have driven far apart from the church. We can assume much happened in the thirty year gap... Or someone else is involved. Someone that was also responsible for Jeynes rise in the church.
4. The Legion "knows" about Azunai. Why shouldn't they?
5. What? Do you even know what Epic Fantasy and Medieval means? And what has any of that to do with secret Organizations? What?
6. Thats maaaaaaybe because the Radiant Youth isn't in control of the church and can just influence things from outside, like help the Legion?

Edited by C2B, 02 October 2011 - 11:45 PM.


#7
Sasha_Je

Sasha_Je

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 82 posts
2: I think the church was formed after DS II because there was no such thing as churches in Dungeon Siege Lore
3: It seems occurred to me that followers of Azunai, defenders or Ebh would rally behind Jayne in order to destroy the Legion. After all the 10th Legion intrests where protect Ebh
4: So if the 10th Legion knows about Azunai and this followers why do they intend in killing them? Azunai church and the 10th Legion should have the same goals. In this kind of theme people where afraid of the Gods wrath therefor they would not dare to destroy their beliefs...only if they have a new God. But if something like this would happen why does this people still fight under Azunai banner?
5: Most of fantasy games revolve upon medieval themes but Dungeon Siege was unique. In DS II you had the Vaikesh race that where a secret organization that wanted to step up in the world so they started to worship Demons. The background story is much complex...It just seems wrong to bring the church in a Dungeon Siege theme and on top of everything those Azunai soldiers did not remind me of Azunai the Defender and his beliefs or anything, they just reminded me about Christianity and Templar Knights. For me it's wrong, just look at the world in DS I/DS I LoA/DS II and you will see a lot of fantasy "organizations" while in DS III you just see the Church
6: Why would Azunai not have "control" over his followers? This is so biblical, a lot of people "prey" to Azunai but in reality they just follow the orders of some High Priest. In Dungeon Siege universe Gods have a great impact upon mortals...look at the Seck Era.

Overall everything seems a bit out of place...I mean remember in DS II you had all sort of people looking for powers in order to do something bad or good. The imprisoned mad mage, the Family Heirloom and so many unique fantasy themes that did not revolve around the all knowing medieval age.

#8
C2B

C2B

    Lazy Assistant of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 4080 posts
  • Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
..... No, I'm not gonna.

Half of that stuff is explained during the game itself and with quick logical conclusions. The other half is your own personal views of how things "should" be. (Even if they don't make sense) Not to mention you have some really screwed idea about terms like "medieval".

But I also know that this will be the equivalent of talking to Volourn, so...............

Believe what you want to believe. Your "right" in your own way, anyway.

Edited by C2B, 03 October 2011 - 04:32 AM.


#9
leeloodallas

leeloodallas

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 76 posts

I think there are some missing links in the hole story of Dungeon Siege. Dungeon Siege I is about The Farmer and the Seck. 10th Legion was mentioned in the Lore but i found nowhere that The Farmer was part of the 10th Legion. Maybe after she saved the kingdom, I don't really remember the story. In Dungeon Siege II the story was about Zaramoth The Unmaker and Azunai The Defender. Azunai was a chieftain who had a magical shield and battled the evil Zaramoth in the past...and now Valdis thinks he is Zaramoth reborn ed and wants to destroy Ebh and re-build a world based on his own vision ( the plot is more complex but it's not about this ). Overall Azunai was a defender of Ehb, so how come in Dungeon Siege III there is a church? And on top of everything how come this church supports Jayne? The people who saw Azunai as a God worshiped him because he saved the kingdom and now they want to gather power to rule Ehb? And in that time the 10th Legion where a military organization that where "working" in order to keep Ehb safe and so on...hmm...if the 10th Legion knew The Farmer and all her companions how come they did not know Azunai or his deeds. I don't know it's pretty strange that you have to fight against Azunai Church. And to be honest Dungeon Siege should be a epic fantasy game and not some medieval game...we should have seen strange cults and secret organizations and not churches.
And I saw someone saying that the Radiant Youth was the spirit of Azunai ( or was this info found in-game? not sure ) well if that is true how come "his" church defends Jayne?
For me it's kinda strange and it looks like there are some loops in the story.


The Farmer became Lady Montbarron after she saved the kingdom, and became part of the 10th Legion. There are several references in the lore books you find.

DSII was set, what, 1000 years after Azunai defeated Zaramoth? The Kingdom of Ehb was formed far later than Azunai's defeat of Zaramoth, allowing plenty of time for a church to form in Ehb.

You see signs of the church in DS1, set 150 years before DS3. In fact, you recruit Naidi from said church in Stonebridge. The Church isn't a huge voice outside of Ehb, since it's an Ehb-based organization, which is why you don't see it in DS2.

Why the did the church back Jeyne? We don't really know. Charismatic figures take over organizations all the time and divert them from their original stated purpose, and religious organizations are notorious for falling victim to this kind of takeover. We also don't know for sure that the Radiant Youth is Azunai, though it seems to be implied. Azunai hasn't exactly taken time out over the centuries after his death to speak to his followers in the church, so, how are they to know who he (or the Radiant Youth) favors? We do know the Radiant Youth favors the Legion.

Anyway, just some random thoughts.

#10
RytGansta

RytGansta

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 23 posts
First of all it's not advisable to intertwine Ehb's Azunai with the rest of Aranna's. Back in the days of the Empire of Stars, Ehb was new land that became a protectorate. Then came the War of Legions, when the 10th forsook Zaramoth and moved to Ehb along with thousands of other people, and later the battle for Aranna, when both the Sword of Zaramoth and the Shield of Azunai clashed causing the great cataclysm Turmanar. By the time this happened, the 10th Legion had already settled in Ehb and became protectors of the new kingdom. Many years after Turmanar, Azunite preachers traveled across Ehb spreading the teachings of the Defender, and somewhere along the way Azunai became a god of war to the people of Ehb, and you can see one of the Azunite Churches in Stonebridge in DS1. This is the religious Azunai and Azunites. The actual Azunai and Azunites are referred to in DS2, with their history and legacy explained throughout the game. So you can see that Azunai differs in both region and context.

In DS3, a book speculates that the Radiant Youth, the one who deems Legionnaires worth of joining the 10th, is the same as DS2 Azunai, who became an actual god, but not exactly in the form of Ehb's Azunai, the one the Azunite Church in DS3 worships, which stems from religious origins rather than historical ones, such as in DS2.

As for Jeyne, she grew up as an orphan taken in by the Church, so she grew up hearing about the religious Azunai and eventually becoming a living saint. But in the thirty years between the fall of the 10th and its resurgence by the hand of Odo, the living saint became the driving force of the church, so when the Azunite High Priests heard about her change of heart regarding the Legion, they became quite suspicious of her motives and therefore sought to distance themselves from her, with assassination and ascension to power hanging in the middle of the whole thing.

Bottom line is, there are two different Azunais, one representing religious beliefs and another representing freedom from the hands of a ruthless tyrant.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users