eubatham

Nice builds guys, going to give that "Fast Running Tank" a definite try in one of my future playthroughs.

Yup, this is correct.

I didn't comment on the Paladin class, I commented on the video and that it's basically just about the scrolls than the class (ANY class). Feel free to share your point of view in the approriate thread, http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/77839-are-paladins-really-not-that-bad/, instead of going off topic. And please, try to refrain from making things up, just to out your frustrations. As for other classes, I'm quite sure I saw a fighter post a similar kill some time ago. I'll look for it later.

This is the first time I've heard someone call kits like the Cavalier terrible. As said in the post before me, some things like multiclassing was broken. But I wouldn't simply compare all other classkits against the outliers. Overall, the Paladin had quite a few decent kits. It's like saying any class that wasn't a Cypher before 1.05 was terrible.

Looks more like a video about scrolls being really good than about an actual class's ability to take on an encounter.

I know this is the Paladin thread, but you are completely wrong when it comes to Wary Defender. A free +10 deflection, +10 fortitude, +10 reflex and +10 will for one talent point is awesome.

I'd like to see you bring people back to life that aren't full con barbarians or fighters, considering that the resurrect spell kills almost everyone once its initial effects wear off. Paladins have no single purpose, their abilities are unfocused and spread all over the place. Furthermore, its only real tanking ability is again from a level 1 talent that's given to all (PC) Paladins automatically. Its other class skills are downright bad compared to other classes, the only reason why you'd state that the Paladin is alright at support is if you never had a class like a Priest or Chanter in your group. You don't need to play the game on PoTD to see just how lackluster the Paladin is. Sure, you can finish the game with a Paladin in your group, but is that really high praise when you can also finish the game with just one party member? I really recommend you reading through threads like http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/77839-are-paladins-really-not-that-bad/ before you'd reply again.

Faith and Conviction is an automatically learned skill at level 1, almost every ability you can spend class points on is close to terrible (unless you decide to run with no other buffing class in your group). Also, running at 3 con as a tank is nothing special. Con is a worthless stat for almost everyone in every roll. And NPC Paladins? They don't even get Faith and Conviction.

Nah, the tank "metagame" in most MMO's is a conscious design choice, not simply due to lack of advanced AI. The only "MMO" that I'm aware off where bad AI is part of the issues it's facing, is GW2. However, GW2 has so many mechanical problems when it comes to PvE that blaming it on just poor AI is mistaking the tip of the iceberg that's above water as the entire iceberg.

I heavily disagree on that point. From a Priest's perspective, the Paladin is only capable of overlapping with a few of their abilities. The difference in quality and quantity when it comes to support is so large between the two classes, that the Paladin really isn't a substitute. I really don't understand this hate against micro'ing. You can pause combat as much as you want and you don't need to (nor can you) spam spells every encounter. Considering that the Paladin has more per encounter abilities than a Priest, you might as well say that a Paladin requires more micro'ing if you're going to fire off abilities constantly.

Not sure if the same is true for the other aura's, but save/loading in certain areas will cause your aura's (or at least zealous aura's) to permanently increase in size. I'm quite sure it's somewhere in Twin Oaks or the wilderness areas right before it. About Paladins vs Chanters & Priests, I think the core of the issue is that Paladins are forced to compete with these classes. Almost every time you need to pick a class ability, the only option is to take a supportive ability that'll go head to head with one of the other two classes. You simply don't have a choice but to overlap, to then be outclassed, as a Paladin. The Paladin needs other ways to grow, ways that'll allow it to differentiate itself from the other support classes.

The maximum is 3 per disposition, so in total 6.

Thank you for at least agreeing with me that defending aura's because "they're always active, even if they get overwritten" is pointless, because most fights don't take that long (because they aren't though). Like I said before; only for the harder (and longer) fights that are more rare (especially in the early game), buffs are important. I do think you're focusing too much on one aspect of chanters though, while ignoring their excellent off-tank potential while passively keeping up strong buffs (via chants) during short fights. Not to even forget their powerful spells, that not only buff allies, but also paralyze enemies or distract them. While a certain play style might not be suited for every gamestyle, keep in mind that we're trying to gauge the overall potential of a class.

Despite the way that you explain how you use the ability, it still doesn't overcome my main hurdle, namely that it simply kills off anyone that you try to resurrects after it's short buff has expired, unless he or she has dumped quite a few points into Con and has a high base HP. Which significantly narrows the potential survivors. Make sure that you're not going off the wiki when it comes to priest spells, it's still quite out of date and uses older beta data. I was mistaken myself too, thinking that it was 5DR. But now that I have access to the game itself again, I can verify that my point still stands (though not 'almost double the DR'). It currently offers 4 DR ingame, vs 3DR from the aura. The duration is also base 30 seconds, compared to the documented 15 from the beta. Also keep in mind that that a Priest is always better to be geared towards a spellcaster, while a Paladin usually isn't (although high Int is sometimes used with Paladins for conversation options), boosting that duration to 42sec at 18 Int. I also double checked to be sure, and the effects do not stack.

The conclusion always comes down to "bring a priest rather than a Paladin" because the Priest brings the same, but down right better versions of most of the Paladin buffs that don't stack with each other. That, along with many more and varied buffs that they all have access to without spending talents. Considering that at lower levels hard fights are far between each other, you'll have the buffs up that you need when you need them despite the per rest limit. Later, the Priest's low ranking spells (which are again include almost all Paladins buffs, but then better versions that don't require talent investment, along with much, much more) become per encounter and the Priest gets access to high level spells that are so powerful the Paladin can't even begin to compare. Powergaming doesn't come into the picture here, nor was it ever really discussed. It's all about the pointlessness of the Paladin. A Paladin isn't anywhere nearly as useful as a Priest, if you try to replace a Priest with a Paladin in your group you're seriously handicapping yourself. And for what? Slightly better tanking than a Priest at lower level, since thanks to gear the class you use for tanking becomes largely irrelevant when you get to act 2? What if we put them both in a party instead? Well, then the Paladin turns into an extremely weak version of a Fighter, because again, most of their buffs don't stack. You'll miss out on +1 accuracy and +5% crit at low level (if you don't bring a Paladin), which is peanuts to what a Priest brings later on. So why not take another fighter instead? Or let a chanter offtank along with a fighter (which many people are doing)? The Paladin needs unique support skills that he brings to the table and see his non support skills keep pace with his level, because currently they're good early on but almost worthless by level 12 (again, almost). Some classes might be above other classes when it comes to relative power but almost all bring something unique to table, apart from the Paladin and one other class. The only other class in a similar situation is the Ranger, which currently lives in the shadow of the Rogue class (but still manages to stand far better on its own compared to a Paladin). But all of this has been explained ad nauseum in this and other threads. If you want to throw a his fit about this and give a stupid, short sighted misinterpretation of the discussion at hand, I guess that is your right to do. But don't mistaken freedom of speech with being right.