[MECHANICS] Power level compilation thread

[Elric Galad]

Doesn't Hobbling Shot also subsitute Wounding Shot since it is the same ability with an additional effect ? I pick Accurate Wounding Shot instead so I don't know if it does...

[Elric Galad]

OK, so to answer my own question, I've done some checking on many abilities. I've mostly checked the tooltip, not the actual effect in most cases. However, couple of times that I checked the effect, it was consistent with the tooltip.

I've found that there are only a handful of abilities for which the level of the Upgrade applies. For all other, the initial ability level applies (so they scale more).

The only exception I've found are :

- Greater Lay on Hand (but this one is actually a new ability as you keep the old Lay on Hand)
- Panther Leap
- Mule Kick (presumably because it used to be a different ability from Mule Kick).
Note : Hobbling Shot is not an exception and is considred PL1 for PL bonus.

I cannot pretend I've checked 100% of abilities with upgrades, but I've tested the 7 classes with upgrades (The 6 Martials and Chanter) and all worked the same. and I've tested most of the "main" abilities (Frenzy, Barbaric Shouts, All Rogue Strikes, Flurry of Blades, Unbending, Vigorous defense, Eld Nary, Seven Nights, Thunder Rolled, Weapon Summons, Paralysis Invocation, Ben Fidel's debuff, Stunning Blows, Torment Reach, Clarity, Wounding Shot, Binding Roots, All exhortations, Sacred Immo, FoD - this one needed actual testing as the tooltip does not show PL, etc...).

Overall, it means that upgrades are always strictly better, provided you don't need the ability point. The few exceptions are likely to be minor glitches.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

As @Phenomenum said: only upgrades like Greater Lay on Hands (costs more Zeal and thus doesn't replace the original Lay on Hands) that create a separate ability in your bar should use their higher PL for scaling. If an upgrade replaces the base ability it should use the base ability's PL for scaling. Not a glitch afaik. Mule Kick maybe. But don't you keep Knockdown as well?

Edited May 25, 2019 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

Mule Kick used to be a separated ability, but not anymore. That's why I think it is a glitch only applied on a couple of abilities.

I've read on this forum that the new PL apply. I wasn't the only one to wonder about it. See the example of Unbending description in thelee's gamefaq (which is a kind of reference) :
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/fighter

So I thought it was worth testing ^^

Edited May 25, 2019 by Elric Galad

[depth]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but what is the impact of Empowering Chanter summons? Would I solely get summon duration?

[Boeroer]

Exactly - Power Levels only raise durations of summons. And Empowering just adds +5 Power Levels.

Hence spending an Empower point for a summon (creatures and also summoned weapons) is... suboptimal.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Boeroer

[PugPug]

  

  On 5/15/2018 at 4:40 PM, thelee said:

 Anyway, regardless of power level, there is a scaling ability level accuracy bonus, which is equal to 2 * (power_level - 1) of the spell. So a PL3 spell will inherently have a +4 ability level accuracy bonus, whereas a PL1 spell will have none. There is also a scaling ability level penetration bonus, which is equal to +.5 per ability level.

Second of all, the general way scaling appears to happen is, first, take the difference between your current power level and the spell's native power level. For simplicity's sake, let's just call this the "PL". (So casting a PL1 spell at PL4 you would have a PL of 3 for scaling purposes.)

A. if a spell bounces or has projectiles, it gets an additional bounce or projectile every other PL. Spells used to have variable projectile scaling but it looks like that got nerfed at some point and they appear to get .5 projectile per PL.

B. if a spell does damage/healing, it gets +5% per PL. Non-bounce, non-projectile damage/heals used to get up to 10%, but looks like that was nerfed at some point.

C. if the spell has duration effects, it gets a longer duration of +5% per PL.

D. if the spell has penetration, it gets an additional +.25 penetration per PL (rounds up to the nearest tenth).

E1. if the spell has an accuracy roll, it gets +1 accuracy per PL.

E2. if the spell primarily only has that accuracy roll (no damage/healing, no duration effect), it instead gets a +2 accuracy per PL. I'm not actually sure how many of these types of spells exist, but I noticed this while playing with Repulsing Seal (which only does a prone). Slicken is another example of a prone-only thing (though it also has a hazard duration, a hazard duration must not prevent a spell from getting +2 accuracy per PL).

 

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So for Illusionists, the benefit from the +2 power level...

You get +10% duration and +2 accuracy. But also another +1 accuracy bonus from ability level scaling?

Edited May 19, 2021 by PugPug

[thelee]

  On 5/19/2021 at 4:50 PM, PugPug said:

  

 

So for Illusionists, the benefit from the +2 power level...

You get +10% duration and +2 accuracy. But also another +1 accuracy bonus from ability level scaling?

Expand  

No, there's two separate things to consider - power level and ability level - they are completely separate effects.

For +2 PL you get +10% duration and +2 accuracy.

For specific illusion spells, you get more scaling based on its ability level as well as your native power level.

For Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage, which is a natively third tier spell, you get +4 accuracy, because you get +2 per ability tier past the lowest one. This is a wholly separate scaling mechanism than PL scaling.

 

If you're high enough level that you've unlocked the fourth ability tier, you get an additional +1 PL scaling on that spell, which amounts to an additional +1 accuracy and +5% duration, stacking with your +2 PL illusionist bonus, any other bonus PL, and the base ability scaling (this base scaling doesn't change as you level up).

 

If you hover over the accuracy number for a spell like Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage you can see these numbers at play - you get different numbers based on whether it's the accuracy number in your ability bar, the pop-up tooltip [where you can hover over the accuracy number and see a breakdown], and then in the combat log when you actually use it. The number you see in the combat log is the most accurate.

 

edit: "ability level scaling" is basically a mechanism that means that if you have two identical spells, but one is at tier one and the other you unlock at tier two, the one you unlocked at a higher tier is just going to be inherently more powerful despite otherwise identical effects (due to inherently higher accuracy and PEN)

Edited May 21, 2021 by thelee

[yorname]

I found that some offensive chanter invocations act weirdly: for example at PL5, when using Her Revenge, I got +4 ACC from ability level (indicating it's AT3), +8 ACC from power level. I knew for some reason it gets a special +2 ACC/PL, but this means it's treated as AT1 at the same time? It's the same for The Shield Cracks for me. They seems to be getting some extra scailing.

[Pal]

Hi everyone!

This is my first post, in the forum. My characters is a LVL 20 death godlike Shadowdancer (Helwalker/Streetfighter) at PL 18 that should be PL 20. The question is: what is suppressed?

As you can see on the first picture, current sneak attack bonus is +115%. Without any extra PL bonus is +60% (multiclassed lvl 20 means  PL 7) and sneak attack increases by 5% per PL, so the 55% difference means +11 PL for a total of 18.

However the effects currently active are  Charge Core (+2PL), Attuned Channel (+3PL), Merge (+4PL), Pallid Fate (+3PL) for +12 PL. Not visible on the picture is +1PL from food (and  Brilliant, which is obiously suppressed). This should give +13PL for a total of 20.

I am positive that all these are generic PL effects and the ones visible on the picture are from items/passives. My best guess is that the stronger trinket (Merge +4PL) overrides the weaker (Charge Core +2PL) altough it should not, as both are from items. 

 

Any ideas? 

[Pal]

As a forum newbie I cannot edit my own post, so to answer my own question ater some testing: unfortuntely the Charge Core does get suppressed by Merge. On the upside, if you keep applying SoT the companion casting Merge rejoins the party but the +4PL effect remains . Will test if the weaker is effective if activated at this point?

[thelee]

Hi 

Have you also tried Least Unstable Coil's Brilliant source for another +1 PL? oddly the Brilliant that comes from that item is passive, unlike normal Brilliant.

something that we might discover is that there may be a PL cap that no one has really obviously hit before. It sounds like you hit 19 PL recently, Stone of Power or Least Unstable Coil should give you sources of stacking +1 PL to see it bumps you up another PL if Lance of the Midwood Stag is mysteriously underperforming.

[Pal]

  On 5/5/2025 at 4:40 PM, thelee said:

Hi 

Have you also tried Least Unstable Coil's Brilliant source for another +1 PL? oddly the Brilliant that comes from that item is passive, unlike normal Brilliant.

something that we might discover is that there may be a PL cap that no one has really obviously hit before. It sounds like you hit 19 PL recently, Stone of Power or Least Unstable Coil should give you sources of stacking +1 PL to see it bumps you up another PL if Lance of the Midwood Stag is mysteriously underperforming.

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Just finished reinstalling a few hours ago to test that, but I had to work . The unstable coil roll and the deck roll was unlucky, Stone of power was in fact on my character, but I got sidetracked experimenting with other things. PL 20 seems doable, yay!

[thelee]

  On 5/5/2025 at 10:38 PM, Pal said:

Just finished reinstalling a few hours ago to test that, but I had to work . The unstable coil roll and the deck roll was unlucky, Stone of power was in fact on my character, but I got sidetracked experimenting with other things. PL 20 seems doable, yay!

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so does that raise further questions about how Lord of the Forest doesn't appear to be giving you the full bonus?

[Pal]

No, I mean it was equipped and I just totally forgot to activate it . Screenshot of PL 19 is here. The  nice thing about  Lord of the Forest is that I can switch weapons and it gets reapplied if I switch back, as long as I am under the effect of the self-activating Barkskin. Years ago, when I shortly delved into the question it was not so, if my memory serves. At that time I had lost interest because I wanted to switch back to monk fists; then I  learned about FF, and added the ability to this Helwalker char via console.

After soome more testing: Stone of Power was patched out indeed, does not stack anymore. Brilliant from the Least Unstable Coil does, PL 20 is here, and I am almost sure I have been here before without the coil or LotF. Perhaps it has to do something with the order of steps?

1. Potion of Ascension PL9.

2. Brilliant from Coil PL 10

3. Attuned Channel from Wand of The Weyc PL 13

4. Lord of the forest PL 15

5. Pallid Fate PL 18 (Sneak Attack 115, so far so good).

!6. Merge but only PL 20 → should be 22

7. Charge Core → no effect at this point, should be 24

The Deck of Endless possibilities did not trigger and remins to be tested.

Edit: does it make sense to post these screenshots? When I was in read only a good pic with explanation helped me to understand the interactions between game components faster, but now I feel it's either too much or too little without another showing the active effects. Is there a way to include both in one?

Edited May 6 by Pal