antagonist

[Ivan the Terrible]

One of my beefs with KOTOR's plot was having two worlds destroyed by an ancient fleet, and then having that fleet destroyed by the Republic ultimately.

 

In ANH, Han Solo doesn't believe the entire Imperial Fleet could wipe out an entire planet. Many Star Wars EU sources feel the need to play on the same scope as a Death Star, but I don't believe it's necessary.

 

The Thrawn Trilogy shows that a truly great Star Wars story doesn't have to involve Galactic Badness

[EnderAndrew]

I was in the Marine Corps, and have a little military knowledge.

 

Despite the US military having large bombers, and umpteen million bombs, we bombed Viet Nam, Germany and Iraq for years without razing the entire country to the ground let alone the surface of an entire planet. And a Star Destroyer may be 1,000 meters long, but we're talking about a lot of surface area.

 

Regardless, the OT is seen as the source of all SW cannon. ANH makes a point that the Death Star is unique in it's new and unparalled power. SW EU often mimics that power needlessly. That's my point.

[Shdy314]

I was in the Marine Corps, and have a little military knowledge.

 

Despite the US military having large bombers, and umpteen million bombs, we bombed Viet Nam, Germany and Iraq for years without razing the entire country to the ground let alone the surface of an entire planet.  And a Star Destroyer may be 1,000 meters long, but we're talking about a lot of surface area.

 

Regardless, the OT is seen as the source of all SW cannon.  ANH makes a point that the Death Star is unique in it's new and unparalled power.  SW EU often mimics that power needlessly.  That's my point.

Can't compare current weaponry to massive orbital gunships with laser weapons buddy.

 

And we do have nukes. No reason the SW universe wouldn't have weapons as powerful but without the side effect. In some books thermal detonators seem to have the range and power of a nuclear bomb actually.

 

Anyways I think the issue has been clarified. They could never turn a planet to ash like the death star but they could grab rocks and throw them at planets. One big one is all youd need to wipe out all life. This is the simplest way. Or unleash a massive orbital bombardment that razes the planet but does not obliterate it.

[Ivan the Terrible]

And we do have nukes. No reason the SW universe wouldn't have weapons as powerful but without the side effect. In some books thermal detonators seem to have the range and power of a nuclear bomb actually.

I used to ask myself why the Imperial military didn't have nuclear weapons. Surely it would be more cost-efficient to simply hurtle several hundred nuclear weapons at a planet's surface, extinguishing all life, then to build a miniature moon that travels the galaxy and blows up entire planets root and branch.

 

Then I thought: Jesus, I'm a geek. I'm thinking of the most cost effective ways to destroy a planet in the Star Wars universe.

[EnderAndrew]

I'll conceed that fictional sci-fi universes can have whatever technology they want. I just think that constatly trying to reach for Galactic Badness

[Ivan the Terrible]

I'll conceed that fictional sci-fi universes can have whatever technology they want. I just think that constatly trying to reach for Galactic Badness

[Shdy314]

I used to ask myself why the Imperial military didn't have nuclear weapons. Surely it would be more cost-efficient to simply hurtle several hundred nuclear weapons at a planet's surface, extinguishing all life, then to build a miniature moon that travels the galaxy and blows up entire planets root and branch.

 

Then I thought: Jesus, I'm a geek. I'm thinking of the most cost effective ways to destroy a planet in the Star Wars universe.

Well Im a bigger geek for realizing the cheapest and most cost effective way to destroy a planet in any sci-fi universe. Grab a big rock and hurl it at them. Unless of course they have orbital defenses that could stop the threat no matter how big the meteor is. That's why you need the Death Star.

[Shdy314]

I'll conceed that fictional sci-fi universes can have whatever technology they want.  I just think that constatly trying to reach for Galactic Badness

[Shdy314]

I'll conceed that fictional sci-fi universes can have whatever technology they want. I just think that constatly trying to reach for Galactic Badness

[Opus131]

Frankly, i'd rather prefer if the Dark Sith of this game was a normal person.

 

Disfigured characters are becoming cliches, and i'm getting rather tired of it, and to be frank, i think they could add a lot more deph to the game if they made the dark lord redeemable as well. A symphatetic nemesis...

[Ivan the Terrible]

and to be frank, i think they could add a lot more deph to the game if they made the dark lord redeemable as well. A symphatetic nemesis...

*ahem*

 

 

I second the motion.

[EnderAndrew]

Coming to KOTOR:2 - Darth Dubya

[Shdy314]

Frankly, i'd rather prefer if the Dark Sith of this game was a normal person.

 

Disfigured characters are becoming cliches, and i'm getting rather tired of it, and to be frank, i think they could add a lot more deph to the game if they made the dark lord redeemable as well. A symphatetic nemesis...

Arcanum let you talk the main villain out of his plan though you needed insane persuade ability. That was kewl. But options like these are only presented in games where the main story is rather shallow. Not so kewl.

[EnderAndrew]

I never beat Arcarnum. I was a good 40-50 hours in before my system and HDD died.

[Shdy314]

I never beat Arcarnum. I was a good 40-50 hours in before my system and HDD died.

Had a lot of flaws in the combat system. Otherwise a pretty good and very unique RPG.

[EnderAndrew]

As soon as I realized how big the game way, and how many hours it would take to beat, I used a characted editor and cheated largely. I barely had time for for all the dialouge, exploration, side quests, etc. I didn't want to waste time on leveling.

[EnderAndrew]

To be perfectally honest, with Unreal and Valve producing ROCK SOLID portable and moddable 3d engines and licensing them out, it's a little sad to see the KOTOR engine being reused. Bioware was capable of going from scratch on their next two games.

 

I'm not saying Obsidian couldn't, and I'm sure LucasArts made the decision to reuse the engine and hurry a sequel. I'd just like to see more people move on to better engines.

[Tyrell]

Until Anakin puts his notorious suit on, he will still be 'little annie' IMHO.

Don't wanna get off topic here and I don't want to spoil EP3 for those who don't want to be spoiled. But here comes some major EP3 spoilers so if you don't want to be spoiled, DONT READ THIS REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Lets look at all the evil things Anakin does in Episode III:

 

-- Kills Mace-Windu (Check)

-- Raids the Jedi Temple with a squad of Clone Troopers and kills all the Jedi inside and kills the younglings himself (Check)

-- Force Chokes and Kills Padme (Check)

 

_______________

 

[sarcasim]Right, he is still just little ole Ani. He isn't nothing until he puts his suit on....[/sarcasim]

 

 

[Getting back on Topic]

 

In KOTOR when I did the darkside choices, I did feel evil at times. I mean, remember on Taris at the Sith base when you had the choice of saving that alien dude by turning all of those switches on the wall to red? Remember that? Well if you turned them to green, then he fries! And you just killed a helpless person in cold-blood. You don't think that isn't evil enough?

 

When you are on Manaan underwater and those Two scientist try to kill you. And then you stop them and start to talk to them. Then when the conversation is over and you kill both of them, despite them telling you how to destroy the big fish to get to the star map, you still kill these two people for no reason. You don't think that isn't evil enough?

 

When you are on Korriban and you do lightsaber spars against those Republic prisoners and kill them, that isn't evil enough?

 

When you are on Dantooine and cause two rich families to kill each other off, you don't think that isn't evil enough?

 

When you are on the Unknown World and you decide to kill off the Good Rakata (The Elders), I mean you just slaughter and wipe out the whole colony of them. You don't think that isn't evil enough?

 

When you are again on the Unknown world and you side with Bastilla and kill off Jolee and Juhani, you don't think that isn't evil enough?

 

I can go on and on about this. But I do believe you DID make some pretty evil choices in KOTOR.

[EnderAndrew]

Sure, murder is evil. KOTOR let you murder plenty.

 

KOTOR was goody-two-shoes, or murder for the sake of murdering.

 

I think a story is more appealing when someone is good because of a principle that they cling to staunchly. I think dedication in the face of adversity is more interesting that Mr. Roger's rules of being good. I think those twisted by the pursuit of power into uncaring forces of destruction are frightening to behold. Killing random innocent people for no reason isn't as appealing.

 

Good should be noble. Evil should be "evil".

[Tyrell]

Sure, murder is evil. KOTOR let you murder plenty.

 

KOTOR was goody-two-shoes, or murder for the sake of murdering.

 

I think a story is more appealing when someone is good because of a principle that they cling to staunchly. I think dedication in the face of adversity is more interesting that Mr. Roger's rules of being good. I think those twisted by the pursuit of power into uncaring forces of destruction are frightening to behold. Killing random innocent people for no reason isn't as appealing.

 

Good should be noble. Evil should be "evil".

So give some examples of some LS/DS situations that you would have liked to see....

 

(I'm not trying to go agaisn't your case, I'm just trying to get more out of you thats all)

[Ivan the Terrible]

Darth Vader rarely, if ever, just killed people 'for kicks.' Barbecuing puppies is for amateurs; he had a grander vision of evil in mind, and he killed who he had to kill in order to advance that vision of a Galaxy under the rule of the Empire. That doesn't mean he never murdered innocents; it meant he murdered innocents as part of a greater scheme rather than just randomly force choking every civilian he came across.

 

The Sith of KOTOR came across as undisciplined, even downright idiotic, hooligans.....yes, even on Korriban. They just killed people at random and to no good purpose; Darth Bandon's entrance onto the Leviathan's bridge was nothing short of idiotic. Your character's 'evil' actions seemed similiarly pointless.

 

This is what I'm hoping Obsidian corrects. Bioware's presentation of evil just plain sucks. PLEASE FIX IT, OBSIDIAN!

[Tyrell]

Darth Vader rarely, if ever, just killed people 'for kicks.' Barbecuing puppies is for amateurs; he had a grander vision of evil in mind, and he killed who he had to kill in order to advance that vision of a Galaxy under the rule of the Empire. That doesn't mean he never murdered innocents; it meant he murdered innocents as part of a greater scheme rather than just randomly force choking every civilian he came across.

 

The Sith of KOTOR came across as undisciplined, even downright idiotic, hooligans.....yes, even on Korriban. They just killed people at random and to no good purpose; Darth Bandon's entrance onto the Leviathan's bridge was nothing short of idiotic. Your character's 'evil' actions seemed similiarly pointless.

 

This is what I'm hoping Obsidian corrects. Bioware's presentation of evil just plain sucks. PLEASE FIX IT, OBSIDIAN!

Lol, you are right. That Darth Bandon entrance to the Levathian cracks me up everytime I see it. I mean....what was the purpose?

 

Was that intended to get us scared of this new character?

[random evil guy]

And we do have nukes. No reason the SW universe wouldn't have weapons as powerful but without the side effect. In some books thermal detonators seem to have the range and power of a nuclear bomb actually.

I used to ask myself why the Imperial military didn't have nuclear weapons. Surely it would be more cost-efficient to simply hurtle several hundred nuclear weapons at a planet's surface, extinguishing all life, then to build a miniature moon that travels the galaxy and blows up entire planets root and branch.

 

Then I thought: Jesus, I'm a geek. I'm thinking of the most cost effective ways to destroy a planet in the Star Wars universe.

aaaaaawesome avatar ivan!!!

 

the office is brilliant!

 

btw; malak sucked two tons of crap! he was a pathetic character; hope obsidian will come up with a few excelent bad guys. maybe based on a gary oldman- or christopher walken-character....?

[Guest Michael Chu]

The Vong have the planet destruction thing down pretty well, I'd say.

[Opus131]

I can go on and on about this. But I do believe you DID make some pretty evil choices in KOTOR.

Those weren't evil choises, those acts were completely phsycotic.

 

You see, my conception of 'evil' is that of a ruthless, self centered and immoral

individual who does everything for his own interest.

 

This doesn't mean this individual can't be human.

 

Your conception of evil seems to be as shallow and black and white as Lucas or Bioware's.

 

The fact is that in real life things aren't as simple. There are many reasons why a person may grow up (notice how we were all children once) to be a ruthless buissness man, or a criminal, or even a drug lord, you can't brush off this people by saying 'they are evil', i bet you that 9 out of 10 you won't find a single criminal who enjoys the act of killing others for it's own sake.

 

Take the mafia for instance. Ruthless, sensless killers, and yet, in a sense, loyal to their families and their loved ones.

 

In prison, if you are a child molester, you won't last a day, because even the most hardened of criminals still repude the idea of messing with a child, would that make this people 'less' evil, or it's just that they are human beings like the rest of us ?!?

 

Fact is, even the most ruthless of drug lords would no less love to spend his life in a tropical island rather then kill innocent people for the fun of it.

 

In KOTOR, i wanted to play the introspect, calm and ruthless Sith Lord (a little like the Sith Master on Korriban, who was polite even, but make no mistake about his true nature), who's only goal was to the pursue of absolute power.

 

My character wouldn't have bothered taunting that alien on taris or frying that poor guy on the sith base, why even bother ?!? My character wouldn't have turned the two families against each on Taris, but would have helped them in anyway possible in order not to give the council any supsition about my true intents. Infact, with Bastilla at my side, i would have played the archtypical hero stereotype throught and throught, becuase it would have been in my best interest. I mean, Do you ever see Palpatine fry innocent people on the streets and force choke random members of the senate nobility ?!? His position within the senate wouldn't last half a second.

 

Instead, all you were allowed to play was that phsychotic idiot you meet on one of the sith tombs, pathetic...