[Rough Damage Comparsion lvl 20] Ravager (Pillar/Berserk) vs Transcendent (Pillar/Soul Blade)

[Voltron]

Wait, what do you mean that the +5 int from monk doesnt remove confusion? You mean clarity of mind? Cause if so, it should be a bug, since smart should dispel confusion

 

Yes, when you use it, it seems to cancel Confusion for split of second but then it's applied again it seems. Could be bug, dunno.

[AgentNoun]

For a single-class Shattered Pillar Monk, is Swift Flurry still better than Lightning Strikes?

[Voltron]

For a single-class Shattered Pillar Monk, is Swift Flurry still better than Lightning Strikes?

In my opinion it's always better for Monk, even for multiclass monks. Because with how many attacks you can dish out you will Proc Swift Flurry a lot and even one proc per 3 attack will deal additional full damage which will be more than 3 in a row attacks with Lighting Strikes (as that additional attack will still get dmg bonus from Turning Wheel and anything else that you may have). That is my opinion, unless we will find in game some part where there are a lot of super tough enemies that are weak to Lightning damage. But Swift right now is imo better and provides with more dps. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Voltron

[SaruNi]

 

 

I've still got a few more hours of download, been chugging away for a few days now.

 

I'm trying to follow your test data - are the numbers shown what you actually did in game for like five attacks? It'd be better to straight up math calc it out.

 

A few questions:

 

1. What about the +5 dex buff from swift strikes? This would make Swift strikes faster than Frenzy

 

Bit off topic, but Barbarians can get +5 dex from Wild Sprint (as well as Nimble, which is better than Swift Flurry's Quick, and also immune to engagement). Though Blood Thirst is the biggest speed bonus by far... were you using that to calculate DPS? (It's power level 7 so available to multiclass at endgame.) 

 

As I mentioned I compared damage, not DPS, but I agree that on paper Swift Flurry/Wild Sprint + Frenzy + Bloodlust + Berserker passive offers a lot more DPS. 

 

Berserker/Bleak Walker would be fun

 

 

At PL 7 Blood Thirst allows you to recover immediately for 10 seconds after each kill. That's a tremendous DPS boost. 

 

Once you reach 0 recovery, two-handed should surpass dual-wield. (Especially with the great sword modal....) 

[Voltron]

 

 

 

I've still got a few more hours of download, been chugging away for a few days now.

 

I'm trying to follow your test data - are the numbers shown what you actually did in game for like five attacks? It'd be better to straight up math calc it out.

 

A few questions:

 

1. What about the +5 dex buff from swift strikes? This would make Swift strikes faster than Frenzy

 

Bit off topic, but Barbarians can get +5 dex from Wild Sprint (as well as Nimble, which is better than Swift Flurry's Quick, and also immune to engagement). Though Blood Thirst is the biggest speed bonus by far... were you using that to calculate DPS? (It's power level 7 so available to multiclass at endgame.) 

 

As I mentioned I compared damage, not DPS, but I agree that on paper Swift Flurry/Wild Sprint + Frenzy + Bloodlust + Berserker passive offers a lot more DPS. 

 

Berserker/Bleak Walker would be fun

 

 

At PL 7 Blood Thirst allows you to recover immediately for 10 seconds after each kill. That's a tremendous DPS boost. 

 

Once you reach 0 recovery, two-handed should surpass dual-wield. (Especially with the great sword modal....) 

 

 

Yes, but Barbarian Blow is Full Attack so it gets better dps as it strikes with both hands. I will spec into few great weapons during level up and once I grab Blood Thrist (unless I will grab something else) I will test those. 

 

But that at least makes Bleak Walker/Berserker for two-handed axe/sword a late game beast. Though it might be still better to focus on Dual Wield till then as PL VII is very late game for Multiclass and till then Dual > Two-Handed.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Voltron

[Clerith]

 

At PL 7 Blood Thirst allows you to recover immediately for 10 seconds after each kill. That's a tremendous DPS boost. 

 

Once you reach 0 recovery, two-handed should surpass dual-wield. (Especially with the great sword modal....) 

 

Wait. Blood Thirst gives you zero recovery for ten seconds after you land one kill? That's insane. You just kill steal something with smash and gg?

[Voltron]

 

 

At PL 7 Blood Thirst allows you to recover immediately for 10 seconds after each kill. That's a tremendous DPS boost. 

 

Once you reach 0 recovery, two-handed should surpass dual-wield. (Especially with the great sword modal....) 

 

Wait. Blood Thirst gives you zero recovery for ten seconds after you land one kill? That's insane. You just kill steal something with smash and gg?

 

 

Yup. Just delete one trash mob and proceed to destroy.

[Climhazzard]

 

For a single-class Shattered Pillar Monk, is Swift Flurry still better than Lightning Strikes?

In my opinion it's always better for Monk, even for multiclass monks. Because with how many attacks you can dish out you will Proc Swift Flurry a lot and even one proc per 3 attack will deal additional full damage which will be more than 3 in a row attacks with Lighting Strikes (as that additional attack will still get dmg bonus from Turning Wheel and anything else that you may have). That is my opinion, unless we will find in game some part where there are a lot of super tough enemies that are weak to Lightning damage. But Swift right now is imo better and provides with more dps. 

 

 

Hmm but doesn't lightning strikes buff your base damage?  So everything you use that isn't a spell will hit 30% harder?  I had the impression that if you weren't focusing on crits with stuff like berserk then lightning strikes should be better.

[Voltron]

 

 

For a single-class Shattered Pillar Monk, is Swift Flurry still better than Lightning Strikes?

In my opinion it's always better for Monk, even for multiclass monks. Because with how many attacks you can dish out you will Proc Swift Flurry a lot and even one proc per 3 attack will deal additional full damage which will be more than 3 in a row attacks with Lighting Strikes (as that additional attack will still get dmg bonus from Turning Wheel and anything else that you may have). That is my opinion, unless we will find in game some part where there are a lot of super tough enemies that are weak to Lightning damage. But Swift right now is imo better and provides with more dps. 

 

 

Hmm but doesn't lightning strikes buff your base damage?  So everything you use that isn't a spell will hit 30% harder?  I had the impression that if you weren't focusing on crits with stuff like berserk then lightning strikes should be better.

 

 

Think of it that way: you deal 30% more dmg additionaly each strike as lightning or you have 30% chance to deal 100% more damage + Turning Wheel damage. I think second option is better the more strikes you do, while first better if enemies die form like 2-3 hits.

 

Of course that is only my opinion.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Voltron

[Climhazzard]

This thread has quickly fallen to the wayside, forums sure are very active atm.  
 

I wanted to add that I've been messing with devoted/pillar and so far it is pretty good.  Devoted to sword, it seems like between swords and my fists I basically always get the 30% over penetration bonus.  Fighter also adds like 80% graze>hit conversion and 25% hit>crit conversion.  Weapon specialization for a base damage multiplier.  Upgraded cleave stance for recovery reduction.  Pretty good survival with rapid recovery and later an auto rez.  It's a bit passive compared to other options but the pulling ability should have some good tactical uses and penetration attack might help you if you want a good single target damage attack.

[Taitealch]

Hi

 

For the comparaison with ravager and transcendent, can you give us the attribute repartition for each ?

[brekain]

I’m not sure if I’m posting this in the right thread but to catch your knowledgeable ear I’m curious I you know if the monk lashes get applied into a sneak attack roll from a shattered/assassin shadowdancer

[Climhazzard]

I’m not sure if I’m posting this in the right thread but to catch your knowledgeable ear I’m curious I you know if the monk lashes get applied into a sneak attack roll from a shattered/assassin shadowdancer

 

 

They're applied to basically all your abilities I think, and the lashes are to my knowledge affected by the sneak attack multiplier.  

[MadDemiurg]

I would build transcendent as a caster with ascendant, +10 int monks can give is very nice. Should take off pretty nicely at higher levels where you actually get cipher spells that don't suck.

 

Soulblade needs some high burst damage to insta max out focus, e.g. charge + cleave. Then SA will be hitting well over 200. Monk doesn't work for this.

[Voltron]

I would build transcendent as a caster with ascendant, +10 int monks can give is very nice. Should take off pretty nicely at higher levels where you actually get cipher spells that don't suck.

 

Soulblade needs some high burst damage to insta max out focus, e.g. charge + cleave. Then SA will be hitting well over 200. Monk doesn't work for this.

 

Monk has great burst with Swift Flurry- I hit many times 5 attacks in go and Torment Reach + Rooting Pain can generate a lot of focus. But if you wait for a lot of focus to do that over 200 SA I will already kill all enemies from basic attacks and torment reach. I sometimes hit over 200 from Swift Flurry crit (few attacks) so...

[Taitealch]

OP, can you give us your attribute point repartition for this two caracters ? (Ravager and Transcend)

 

We can't expect some results without the good score of might, int, dex... 

[MadDemiurg]

 

I would build transcendent as a caster with ascendant, +10 int monks can give is very nice. Should take off pretty nicely at higher levels where you actually get cipher spells that don't suck.

 

Soulblade needs some high burst damage to insta max out focus, e.g. charge + cleave. Then SA will be hitting well over 200. Monk doesn't work for this.

 

Monk has great burst with Swift Flurry- I hit many times 5 attacks in go and Torment Reach + Rooting Pain can generate a lot of focus. But if you wait for a lot of focus to do that over 200 SA I will already kill all enemies from basic attacks and torment reach. I sometimes hit over 200 from Swift Flurry crit (few attacks) so...

 

Figher can generale enough focus for 200+ SA with one charge, no need to wait.

Edited May 12, 2018 by MadDemiurg

[Voltron]

 

 

I would build transcendent as a caster with ascendant, +10 int monks can give is very nice. Should take off pretty nicely at higher levels where you actually get cipher spells that don't suck.

 

Soulblade needs some high burst damage to insta max out focus, e.g. charge + cleave. Then SA will be hitting well over 200. Monk doesn't work for this.

 

Monk has great burst with Swift Flurry- I hit many times 5 attacks in go and Torment Reach + Rooting Pain can generate a lot of focus. But if you wait for a lot of focus to do that over 200 SA I will already kill all enemies from basic attacks and torment reach. I sometimes hit over 200 from Swift Flurry crit (few attacks) so...

 

Figher can generale enough focus for 200+ SA with one charge, no need to wait.

 

 

True, but if you can do 150-200 dmg with simple attacks with almost 0 recovery or using a FoD/Barbarian blow which are Full Attacks instead of Single Attack then I don't see a point in SA. I played a little with Soul Blade and so far it doesn't seem to me as impressive as other melee combos you can get from multis. It's of course definitell a strong subclass for melee, no doubt.

[MadDemiurg]

SA does a lot more damage than FoD or Barbaric blow if you have high alpha and high focus gain. Offhand damage is pretty negligible compared to what it does, so it doesn't even matter if it's full or primary that much.

Edited May 12, 2018 by MadDemiurg

[Voltron]

SA does a lot more damage than FoD or Barbaric blow if you have high alpha and high focus gain. Offhand damage is pretty negligible compared to what it does, so it doesn't even matter if it's full or primary that much.

 

While I can't speak for SA max damage as I only tested it on I think 63 focus and wasn't impressed with it's damage but the advantage of full attack when we speak about low recovery two weapons builds like Monk or Rogue is actually pretty huge- that straight up double done damage when using Two Weapons. Can't be use as much in row as SA of course, but so far didn't meet anything which would require that. Though if someone is planning to use Two-handed or Single/Sword Shield build then Soul Blade definitely is better option.

 

 

Bit of off topic:

 

But it's kind of lame when whole build depends on spamming one ability only :D. Not to mention your pretty much take whole Cipher subclass only to use ONE ability since it eats whole focus :D. I think that design behind Soul Blade is really lame.

 

 

But lets now do Devoted/Soul Blade. Probably most boring melee class in game imo

[MadDemiurg]

 

But it's kind of lame when whole build depends on spamming one ability only :D. Not to mention your pretty much take whole Cipher subclass only to use ONE ability since it eats whole focus :D. I think that design behind Soul Blade is really lame.

 

Isn't that like every melee class in the game, lol.

 

You can afford to use stuff like body attunement and borrowed instinct too, it can be useful.

 

Generally the idea is aoe weapon attacks maxing out your focus and SA proccing more aoe attacks due to oneshots.

 

Charge can easily allow you to get to 200+ focus with draining whip in 1 cast (don't bother with biting whip for measly 10%), then SA to finish something off, then cleave and your focus is full again. Full attacks is nice and all, but your offhand doesn't hit for 190 raw damage. And yes, duals are still better for SA unless you somehow managed to get big recovery bonuses elsewhere.

Edited May 12, 2018 by MadDemiurg

[aeoncs]

Bit of off topic:

 

But it's kind of lame when whole build depends on spamming one ability only :D. Not to mention your pretty much take whole Cipher subclass only to use ONE ability since it eats whole focus :D. I think that design behind Soul Blade is really lame.

 

100% agreed. Tbh, if you wanna have fun with Cipher in any kind of melee build - doesn't really matter if single,- or multiclass - I think the best advice to give is to just skip the Subclass. I feel that all of the Subclasses except Beguiler, which isn't exactly great for a melee build, simply limit your playstyle way too much. Yes, SA can hit for ridiculous amounts but it's also simply sleep-inducing to play while the Ascended mechanic is way too gimmicky.

 

Good overall testing though, thanks for the effort o/

Edited May 12, 2018 by aeoncs

[Nemesis7884]

As someone who's never played Cipher (not even in PoE1), which soulblade cipher skills are a must?

 

I'm doing a pillar soulblade too and I feel like I have no idea what i'm doing on my cipher side. Currently level 5 so only have access to level 2 skills, but not sure how I'll progress. I took biting whip instead of draining whip, hopefully that was a good idea. It sounded better in the long run.

 

depends if you want to play a melee cipher or a ranged

 

for a melee cipher i think biting whip, the passive that gives weapon penetration, body attunement and borrowed instincts...

 

for a "wizard" cipher all the dominate/charm skills are incredibly useful - whispers of treason is lvl 1 and amazing, ring leader is great....

the damage spells - amplified wave, disintegration, mind lance, and maybe mind blades

[Nemesis7884]

 

Bit of off topic:

 

But it's kind of lame when whole build depends on spamming one ability only :D. Not to mention your pretty much take whole Cipher subclass only to use ONE ability since it eats whole focus :D. I think that design behind Soul Blade is really lame.

 

100% agreed. Tbh, if you wanna have fun with Cipher in any kind of melee build - doesn't really matter if single,- or multiclass - I think the best advice to give is to just skip the Subclass. I feel that all of the Subclasses except Beguiler, which isn't exactly great for a melee build, simply limit your playstyle way too much. Yes, SA can hit for ridiculous amounts but it's also simply sleep-inducing to play while the Ascended mechanic is way too gimmicky.

 

Good overall testing though, thanks for the effort o/

 

 

yes a soulblade makes you a bit of a one trick pony....but a lot of melee classes are and it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a melee cipher who predominantly casts cipher spells because the recovery time is way too high

[Taitealch]

Sorry to ask for third time, but can you tell us the attributes repartition for your Ravager/Transcendent used for your test please ? 

 

Maybe it's a dumb question, but i need to know why if so.