Companions and Romance

[daven]

 

 

 

Look, I have absolutely no issue with being bisexual/gay/australian/whatever but this reminds me of a topic on beamdogs forum. Some people wanted Anomen to be able to be romanced by male characters as well. Why? Just because YOU want him to be gay? His character was heterosexual. 

 

I think it undermines the writing, this kind of lazy fan service.

 

For example Isabella in Dragon Age 2, i find completely acceptable to be like that because it's completely part of her character. 

 

And on another note, i don't hate romances in games as a rule. I quite like the BG2 ones because they take the entire game to develop and can be quite hard to maintain(Jaheira) if you say the wrong crap.

 

In this it's just ... do you want to flirt? Yes? Okay you're now dating. 

if you wanna talk about lazy , you may wanna take a closer look at BG2 avaible romance . How unfair and lazy it was when it came to numbers . 

 

Male get : Jaheira , Viconia and Aerie . And female get : Annoymen . 

 

No , it doesn't change the writing . Someone having the Tag 'Bi' or 'Gay' won'T become a lousy character just cose it has those Tag . It's always has been a lousy character . 

 

Changing he to she , won't change someone from being a nuisance at the end of the day . 

 

Think Irenicus goal will change if you learn he was banging a dude elf behind the queen back ? 

 

Why is that lazy? I don't believe that Jaheira would date a non Human/Elf/Half-elf.

 

Just because you chose a character who's a Dwarf doesn't mean she should instantly want to bang you.

 

So now you going wacist on dwarf ?! They are super duper cute! YOUR LOSS! THAT HAIR CHEST!!!!!!!!!! 

 

I love Dwarve's as much as the next guy! I'm just saying... anyway Forgotten Realms and the Eternity universe are so different it's hard to compare them.

[Aridea]

 

Heh, I'm one of those people that always argues against including romances unless the writers/narrative team I actually want to themselves. Like, enthusiastically want to write some sappy romance arcs for that character, not just begrudgingly write something because their character is of the age and attractiveness level to maybe be of interest to the general demographic the player character is likely to fall into.

 

My argument against including them has always been that they limit the sorts of companion characters that the writers can write. Game development is ultimately zero-sum, there's a limit to time and money and other resources that are needed to make games, which largely determine how many companion characters will be available. So once it's decided that 'romances' will be a thing, it kind of limits what sorts of characters those can be. In PoE1, a lot of my favorite characters were the unattractive/unavailable ones; I loved how Durance was an unapologetic **** (it's so common for those kinds of characters to be written for the player to 'fix' or prove wrong), Sagani was a hilarious snarky dwarf mom (who is very pretty but  would never entertain the idea of cheating on her hubby), and Devil of Caroc had her hilarious lovable moments while being one of the most heartbreakingly tragic followers I've seen in a long time. But there's not really room for a lot of characters like that when the dev team has to worry about making a bunch of the companions attractive and available.

 

I don't think that's a horribly negative or controversial view of the argument? Although in pre-release forum hype, that still got me labelled as someone who must be 'a bitter sad loser who hates love and doesn't want anyone to be happy'. Le shrug.

 

I guess the short version would be to let the creative team do what they want and think is best for the characters and the narrative, which is why I'll defend any writers decision to not force a romance onto a character if they don't think it would fit the character.

 

 

Honestly I completely agree with you on this one. I would like the romance to be written only if the developers want to write it and only because they would feel it fits the character they are writing. I don't want it to be written because someone asked for it and they decided to cram it in as an afterthought.

 

I like romance in games, and I am completely great with romance not being in games. Its not the most important thing for me and never a selling point. If its there I will enjoy it, if not, cool too. I adore POE1 even though there was no such interactions. I like good stories and well-written characters, everything else is arbitrary.

Funny that you mention Durance because he was one of my most favorite characters in POE1 even tho so many people hated him. I loved him and his comments and never got him out of my party. He was a breath of fresh air.

Does romance limit the type of companions you get? Sure. Everyone is ridiculously good-looking and lovable in Deadfire. Would I have liked someone like Durance? Yeah, of course. But Deadfire gave us a different cast, and thats okay in my book. I view the characters as characters first and not romance options, and I do genuinely like how everyone is written. They may not be everybody's cup of tea but they are different to the previous cast, and that's fine for me. They resonate with me as characters.

 

Would I have loved Deadfire if it didn't have romance characters? Hell yeah. Again because its not what makes a great game for me. I view it as a nice bonus, which I will play if given, but not obligatory.

 

"I guess the short version would be to let the creative team do what they want and think is best for the characters and the narrative, which is why I'll defend any writers decision to not force a romance onto a character if they don't think it would fit the character."

 

Yes I agree with that too. That's why I am defending Eder's non-romance arc.

 

I guess I am just tired of the overblown reactions towards romances. Especially putting labels on people and throwing them into different camps of this ridiculous Bioware vs Obsidian.

Can't we just, all be friends and provide constructive criticism to help make our favorite games better.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Aridea

[CaptainBiscuit]

I guess i'm the odd one out here, I actually like Anomen as a character.

 

I've only played as male PC's in BG2 and always bring him along, he's a snarky arse. What's not to like?!?!

 

Eh. In my recent playthrough he called Jaheira "a wench" after her rather neutral comment about something, and "my lady" literally in the next banter. Bipolar much? Though if anything, it is worth keeping him in the party just to listen to Jan Jansen making fun of him :D

I'll stop derailing this thread now.

[acrimony]

I guess i'm the odd one out here, I actually like Anomen as a character.

 

I've only played as male PC's in BG2 and always bring him along, he's a snarky arse. What's not to like?!?!

 

When you are doing Anomen's quest, there is no way to get a "good" ending from giving him advice.  If you tell him to let the law handle it, his father finds proof that his enemy is to blame, and goes to get revenge, and gets killed.  If you tell him to get revenge, it turns out that his father's enemy is not to blame (after Anomen murders the guy and his daughter), and Anomen's father disowns him.  Either way, a female character is put in the position of begging Anomen to do the right thing, and he is pissed and blames the PC for a while.

 

You basically have to beg for forgiveness, when he asked for your character's advice in the first place, and how was the PC supposed to have any more information than Anomen?  I personally found it to be a terrible basis for a romance.  Not to mention that Anomen kind of "negs" the female PC even before she is put through the impossible test and having to apologize when she's done nothing wrong.  Yeah, not a fan.

[E.RedMark]

 

I guess i'm the odd one out here, I actually like Anomen as a character.

 

I've only played as male PC's in BG2 and always bring him along, he's a snarky arse. What's not to like?!?!

 

Eh. In my recent playthrough he called Jaheira "a wench" after her rather neutral comment about something, and "my lady" literally in the next banter. Bipolar much? Though if anything, it is worth keeping him in the party just to listen to Jan Jansen making fun of him :D

I'll stop derailing this thread now.

 

oh god..I remember that one . I wanted to kill him on the spot...

[Aridea]

I guess i'm the odd one out here, I actually like Anomen as a character.

 

I've only played as male PC's in BG2 and always bring him along, he's a snarky arse. What's not to like?!?!

 

I liked Anomen as a character too, because I genuinely enjoy flawed characters that don't suck it up to the protagonist. But he was a terrible choice for romance for a female character, especially since the other options were scrapped. (he is kinda redeemable because he does get a bit better in Throne of Bhaal, I had to stomach one playthrough with him to see). I think Valygar and Haer'Dalis were supposed to be too? But they never made it. Would have been nice to see what the devs planned for them.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Aridea

[Ryz009]

Well now I'm replaying BG so I hope you all are proud of yourselves

[Aridea]

Have fun with Anomen

[E.RedMark]

Well now I'm replaying BG so I hope you all are proud of yourselves

Awww which ones? BG1 or 2 ? or are you gonna do a whole run of both ?

 

Either way , say hi to Jaheira for meh....

 

Gonna get back to that game once they let me use Mods ! 

[DarthWhite]

Oh come on guys and girls. Why romances of all things have to suffer from this attitude? "Do it perfectly or don't do at all"? You know what results this attitude brings you in real life? You'll always chose "don't do at all". Because there is no such thing as perfection.
Come on, sure you know it. It's terribly simple!

I'm really thankful for the fact romances were included. Because, well, i like them. They are not perfect but aren't poorly written either. There just could be more content. More dialogs. Eder for all the people who wanted him. Or perhaps a more interesting female character as LI. But still!

It's a damn good step forward from "nothing". What I would like to say is "thank you, Obsidian". I really appreciate that you gave us romances. Because for me romantic feelings are an important part of life and I feel so much more tied to the story where my character can not only kill people, rule ship and save the world (i.e. work) but also care about someone. It just seems right.

Now, maybe the next time they will do a bit more. But surely not if all the community says "all or nothing, period". I mean I find it perfectly fine to express any desires, thoughts or dissapointment but just not in a way "drop it next time because it didn't turn out perfect". This way we will just get nothing. Again. And I for one am not fine with it.

[Ryz009]

Have fun with Anomen

 

pfft I'd romance Dorn first.

 

 

 

Well now I'm replaying BG so I hope you all are proud of yourselves

Awww which ones? BG1 or 2 ? or are you gonna do a whole run of both ?

 

Either way , say hi to Jaheira for meh....

 

Gonna get back to that game once they let me use Mods ! 

 

 

Both of course!

 

Oh god Jaheira. I actually don't drag her along with me I did once of course on my good guy half/elf. As you can imagine you know how that went in BG2. (which is why I get so annoyed seeing her in BG2. Lady I don't know you, I don't want to know you go away you complete and utter creeper.)

 

Wait you can't now? I've been using mods just fine. (Mostly using one that expands Dorn's romance. I wish there was one that gave Rassad a less crap ending.)

 

Hopefully in Deadfire the dlc will have some small romance banters (and friendship/dislike ones). Basically I just want moar content with the companions XD

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Ryz009

[Ryz009]

Oh come on guys and girls. Why romances of all things have to suffer from this attitude? "Do it perfectly or don't do at all"? You know what results this attitude brings you in real life? You'll always chose "don't do at all". Because there is no such thing as perfection.

Come on, sure you know it. It's terribly simple!

 

I'm really thankful for the fact romances were included. Because, well, i like them. They are not perfect but aren't poorly written either. There just could be more content. More dialogs. Eder for all the people who wanted him. Or perhaps a more interesting female character as LI. But still!

 

It's a damn good step forward from "nothing". What I would like to say is "thank you, Obsidian". I really appreciate that you gave us romances. Because for me romantic feelings are an important part of life and I feel so much more tied to the story where my character can not only kill people, rule ship and save the world (i.e. work) but also care about someone. It just seems right.

 

Now, maybe the next time they will do a bit more. But surely not if all the community says "all or nothing, period". I mean I find it perfectly fine to express any desires, thoughts or dissapointment but just not in a way "drop it next time because it didn't turn out perfect". This way we will just get nothing. Again. And I for one am not fine with it.

 

Nah there's a difference in someone who wanted to write the romance not writing it particularly well and the bitterness that seeps through a romance someone didn't want to write.

 

I'm not saying nothing at all

[daven]

 

Have fun with Anomen

 

pfft I'd romance Dorn first.

 

 

 

Well now I'm replaying BG so I hope you all are proud of yourselves

Awww which ones? BG1 or 2 ? or are you gonna do a whole run of both ?

 

Either way , say hi to Jaheira for meh....

 

Gonna get back to that game once they let me use Mods ! 

 

 

Both of course!

 

Oh god Jaheira. I actually don't drag her along with me (which is why I get so annoyed seeing her in BG2. Lady I don't know you, I don't want to know you go away you complete and utter creeper.)

 

Wait you can't now? I've been using mods just fine. (Mostly using one that expands Dorn's romance. I wish there was one that gave Rassad a less crap ending.)

 

Hopefully in Deadfire the dlc will have some small romance banters (and friendship/dislike ones). Basically I just want moar content with the companions XD

 

 

I played them both over the past 6 months in prep for this coming out.

 

A lo of folks were saying BG2 has aged badly blah blah blah, it has in some ways but it's still a really good game. You just have to play it or a few days to sort of 'acclimatise'.

 

And I realised my favourite character might be Yoshimo.

[E.RedMark]

 

Have fun with Anomen

 

pfft I'd romance Dorn first.

 

 

 

Well now I'm replaying BG so I hope you all are proud of yourselves

Awww which ones? BG1 or 2 ? or are you gonna do a whole run of both ?

 

Either way , say hi to Jaheira for meh....

 

Gonna get back to that game once they let me use Mods ! 

 

 

Both of course!

 

Oh god Jaheira. I actually don't drag her along with me I did once of course on my good guy half/elf. As you can imagine you know how that went in BG2. (which is why I get so annoyed seeing her in BG2. Lady I don't know you, I don't want to know you go away you complete and utter creeper.)

 

Wait you can't now? I've been using mods just fine. (Mostly using one that expands Dorn's romance. I wish there was one that gave Rassad a less crap ending.)

 

Hopefully in Deadfire the dlc will have some small romance banters (and friendship/dislike ones). Basically I just want moar content with the companions XD

 

 

Awwwww dont say that...you hurting mah virtual feeling 

 

I love Jaheira 

 

Just say hi for me , didn't say add her to your facebook 

 

well..last time I checked , I read that you couldn't use mod . Has that changed ? and I mean with the enhanced copy that is . 

[Yria]

Am I the only person in the world to genuinely like Jaheira? She can be quite an ass at times, but I really appreciated her no-nonsence attitude. 

 

Oh wait somebody wrote that they love Jaheira while I was typing. Nevermind 

[Ryz009]

 

I played them both over the past 6 months in prep for this coming out.

 

A lo of folks were saying BG2 has aged badly blah blah blah, it has in some ways but it's still a really good game. You just have to play it or a few days to sort of 'acclimatise'.

 

And I realised my favourite character might be Yoshimo.

 

Oh I definitely love BG2 but I guess since I played it type late the romances are the one thing that stood out to me as type awful. Which is why people saying their the best romances BW ever done gets eternal side eye from me. Also Sarevok is <3 Irenicus is great at first then becomes a loon like most BW antagonists.

 

That said it was nice to be able to play an actual evil protagonist. Can't really do that anymore  

 

Also poor Yoshimo. I wanted to give him a hug.

 

You know it doesn't bother me that Eothas wasn't really evil it's just your interactions with him are really brief. I mean I get he's carting around most of your soul for most of the game but it feels he should've had more of a reason to value your opinion as highly as he does. It feels like there's conversations missing or something I dunno I'm not explaining myself well.

[Ryz009]

Awwwww dont say that...you hurting mah virtual feeling 

 

I love Jaheira 

 

Just say hi for me , didn't say add her to your facebook 

 

well..last time I checked , I read that you couldn't use mod . Has that changed ? and I mean with the enhanced copy that is . 

 

 

Yeah you've been able to use mods for a while. Just gotta make sure they're properly updated with the latest weidu I believe. Unless an update broke something?

 

I moved over to EE as soon as mods were available for it and that was a few years ago.

[E.RedMark]

 

Awwwww dont say that...you hurting mah virtual feeling 

 

I love Jaheira 

 

Just say hi for me , didn't say add her to your facebook 

 

well..last time I checked , I read that you couldn't use mod . Has that changed ? and I mean with the enhanced copy that is . 

 

 

Yeah you've been able to use mods for a while. Just gotta make sure they're properly updated with the latest weidu I believe. Unless an update broke something?

 

I moved over to EE as soon as mods were available for it and that was a few years ago.

 

I was using my old copy..that I brough ages ago . 

 

I haven't tried mod with the enhanced version . 

 

well good to know..that be something to play again in the futur ! Thanx!

[CaptainBiscuit]

Am I the only person in the world to genuinely like Jaheira? She can be quite an ass at times, but I really appreciated her no-nonsence attitude. 

 

Oh wait somebody wrote that they love Jaheira while I was typing. Nevermind 

 

Nope. She's a permanent party member (along with Jan and Keldorn) in my every playthrough. I really like how even without romance your character can develop a strong bond with her. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by CaptainBiscuit

[Yria]

You know it doesn't bother me that Eothas wasn't really evil it's just your interactions with him are really brief. I mean I get he's carting around most of your soul for most of the game but it feels he should've had more of a reason to value your opinion as highly as he does. It feels like there's conversations missing or something I dunno I'm not explaining myself well.

 

I agree. There is a small dialogue you can have with Tekehu after Hasongo where he asks why the hell would Eothas be interested in hearing your opinion, and I was like... I don't know man. Because the game plot dictates that? Or maybe he is just feeling bad for stepping on my castle? 

[daven]

 

 

Awwwww dont say that...you hurting mah virtual feeling 

 

I love Jaheira 

 

Just say hi for me , didn't say add her to your facebook 

 

well..last time I checked , I read that you couldn't use mod . Has that changed ? and I mean with the enhanced copy that is . 

 

 

Yeah you've been able to use mods for a while. Just gotta make sure they're properly updated with the latest weidu I believe. Unless an update broke something?

 

I moved over to EE as soon as mods were available for it and that was a few years ago.

 

I was using my old copy..that I brough ages ago . 

 

I haven't tried mod with the enhanced version . 

 

well good to know..that be something to play again in the futur ! Thanx!

 

I have the EE's but... i actually kind of prefer the originals. 

 

1. I don't like the new characters, they just don't mesh well at all with the original content.

2. I'm not entirely sure what's so 'Enhanced' about them, the only thing is the zoom feature???

3. I also prefer having the old sprites in BG1.

 

I probably sound like a Luddite right now... i'm gonna go shout at some clouds!

[E.RedMark]

 

You know it doesn't bother me that Eothas wasn't really evil it's just your interactions with him are really brief. I mean I get he's carting around most of your soul for most of the game but it feels he should've had more of a reason to value your opinion as highly as he does. It feels like there's conversations missing or something I dunno I'm not explaining myself well.

 

I agree. There is a small dialogue you can have with Tekehu after Hasongo where he asks why the hell would Eothas be interested in hearing your opinion, and I was like... I don't know man. Because the game plot dictates that? Or maybe he is just feeling bad for stepping on my castle? 

 

well..he didn't even say 'Whoops! Sorry..didn't see you there'' ..

 

 

and as a watcher who deal with soul , if anyone should get a say it's you . Also..you can play as a priest of the gods . So that give you more reasons as well . 

[Yria]

 

Am I the only person in the world to genuinely like Jaheira? She can be quite an ass at times, but I really appreciated her no-nonsence attitude. 

 

Oh wait somebody wrote that they love Jaheira while I was typing. Nevermind 

 

Nope. She's an arbitrary party member (along with Jan and Keldorn) in my every playthrough. I really like how even without romance your character can develop a strong bond with her. 

 

Same, I very rarely ran a party without those three (and never without Jan). I also like how in the end of ToB tne narrator mentions "your closest companions", and Jaheira's portrait is one of the first to flash across the screen. 

[Chokladglass]

 

 

Am I the only person in the world to genuinely like Jaheira? She can be quite an ass at times, but I really appreciated her no-nonsence attitude. 

 

Oh wait somebody wrote that they love Jaheira while I was typing. Nevermind 

 

Nope. She's an arbitrary party member (along with Jan and Keldorn) in my every playthrough. I really like how even without romance your character can develop a strong bond with her. 

 

Same, I very rarely ran a party without those three (and never without Jan). I also like how in the end of ToB tne narrator mentions "your closest companions", and Jaheira's portrait is one of the first to flash across the screen. 

 

I adored Jaheira. She was always in my party. I didn't romance her, though. My interests lay elsewhere, as is illustrated by my avatar.    Love ya, Vicki!

[Ryz009]

Yeah my party always just had Imoen in it if my character was good/neutral and...well...my evil party wasn't really constant except for Viconia and Edwin. (Also Edwin's ending is just...really?)