Which class can get the most out of dual wielding?

[Conman]

I've been trying to settle on a PC for my first playthrough, reading the forums, doing some research on builds and testing a few in game. I haven't got very far yet, but want to feel I've made the best choice as I may only get one playthrough.

 

I had almost settled on a Human Rogue, pirate type character dual wielding sabres or sabre and dagger (dagger mainhand), with the intention of doing DPS and maybe hunting squishies or pesky wizards and archers during combat, then getting stuck into the main fray.

 

However I was reading this forum last night and found some (admittedly older) posts and/or comments that said that a Rogue for single target DPS is quite underwhelming compared to what other classes can do. I know that the damage some casters (i.e. wizards) can put out in AOE damage simply makes single target damage almost irrelevant. I still think I'd like to go with a dual wielding melee character, I just want to check what options I have.

Is a Rogue the best for a dual wielding build, and is another class more up to the job?

 

I'd like to not die right away after a couple of hits, and skirt the edges of the fight picking off VIP targets. Is Rogue best for this with dual wield, or would a duel wield fighter, barbarian or monk be more suitable? (Is it even advisable to kit a monk out "like a pirate" and not use fists?) Who has the best talents/skills/abilities for the job, while not dying too quickly? (I don't want to min max and will maybe put an extra point or two into a survival stat and can change it later).

 

Thanks!

Edited April 24, 2018 by Conman

[Zoso der Goldene]

I've been trying to settle on a PC for my first playthrough, reading the forums, doing some research on builds and testing a few in game. I haven't got very far yet, but want to feel I've made the best choice as I may only get one playthrough.

 

I had almost settled on a Human Rogue, pirate type character dual wielding sabres or sabre and dagger (dagger mainhand), with the intention of doing DPS and maybe hunting squishies or pesky wizards and archers during combat, then getting stuck into the main fray.

 

However I was reading this forum last night and found some (admittedly older) posts and/or comments that said that a Rogue for single target DPS is quite underwhelming compared to what other classes can do. I know that the damage some casters (i.e. wizards) can put out in AOE damage simply makes single target damage almost irrelevant. I still think I'd like to go with a dual wielding melee character, I just want to check what options I have.

Is a Rogue the best for a dual wielding build, and is another class more up to the job?

 

I'd like to not die right away after a couple of hits, and skirt the edges of the fight picking off VIP targets. Is Rogue best for this with dual wield, or would a duel wield fighter, barbarian or monk be more suitable? (Is it even advisable to kit a monk out "like a pirate" and not use fists?) Who has the best talents/skills/abilities for the job, while not dying too quickly? (I don't want to min max and will maybe put an extra point or two into a survival stat and can change it later).

 

Thanks!

I can only give you my personal experience on this, I don't have all the numbers or know all the possible builds.

When I started playing PoE, I considered Rogue to be an essential part of the party.

I stuck with this concept until quite recently, tried to tweak in play a slate of different character concepts over time. I arrived at two conclusions: Dual Wielding is best for a Melee Rogue and Rogues are not essential to a party.

That being said, I'd say there are a couple of other classes with talents suited for dual wielding (and that also fit the pirate theme to some extent, if you pick the right background and culture): Barbarian, Chanter (if you think Pirate, that's maybe the most natural pick besides Rogue), Cipher (if you want to go melee, you'd want to gain focus as quickly as possible), and Monk (outfitting them pirate style works perfectly fine).

I have no experience with dual wielding fighters - they always end up as board and stick guys.

The same for my paladins, I just hesitate to give up their strong defense/support capabilities and go dual wield (come to think of it, I wouldn't have to give up much except for the shield, but I also have trouble seeing them in the classical pirate role - although in PoE, I found even the most unusual character concepts work out pretty well).

[Boeroer]

To answer the initial question: monk.

 

however, good class choices for dual wielding can be:

 

- Barbarian (because of Barbaric Blow + Heart of Fury)

- Fighter (because of Knockdown + Bonus Knockdown + Charge)

- Rogue (because he can have a lot of Full Attacks per encounter and he has a lot of dmg mods that work in favor for fast weapons)

- Cipher (because of Soul Whip + Biting Whip that work in favor of dw light weapons)

- Monk (because of Torment's Reach and good dmg mods via lashes)

- Druid (because of Spiritshift - the dual wielding is automatic while shifted though, but you want to skill for dw)

- Paladin (just because of Flames of Devotion)

 

So basically every class that has a good amount of Full Attacks per encounter, preferably with an affliction (rogue, fighter) or very powerful ones (barb) or have a lot of dmg mods (rogue, monk, cipher) or come with dw anyway (druids). For other classes it can be benefical aswell, but it isn't that much of a difference.

 

Great class to pick off squishies are fighter and especially monk. But also rogue and druid if you give them a bit more sturdiness with some stats (more CON) and talents like Veteran's Recovery.

 

Rogues start very well into the game because they have great dmg mods right from the start (Sneak Attack, Reckless Assault) and nice Full Attacks. They just can't keep up with the power curve of other classes after the mid game. But this is mostly a complaint of PotD players because there are so many enemies that single target damage is not good enough to deal with all those foes quickly. However, a rogue always works as a squishy hunter.

 

If you want to pick off high priority targets fast then my personal order would be:

- Monk (because of high move speed, Stunning Blows, Skyward Kick and esp. Force of Anguish which takes enemies out of the game so effectively and also because of the Long Pain which works with all melee CC abilites despite being ranged)

- Fighter (because of 3 Knockdowns per encounter and especially Into the Fray and Charge)

- Rogue (because of Backstab which can one-shot some squishies and Escape that I can use to get to squishies faster, the good single target dmg and the affliction based Full Attacks)

- Druid (because his single target damnage is unmatched in the late game)

 

However - a rogue with Backstab is better with a two handed weapon like Tidefall. I once build one with 1 INT (3 starting INT and -2 from Hat of Alluting Perfection) and Tidefall, maxing out stealth, MIG and CON and wielding Tidefall. It was a blast to get behind enemy line unseen and then deal two massive Backstab auto-attacks. The I followed up with a Runner's Wounding Shot, then a Blinding Strike and so on. I also took Nightshroud and leveled it up so I can have an additional use of Shadowing Beyond. In tough fights I would have 3 uses of invisibility and also the cape of the Master Mystic which lets me go invisible when I catched a crit. So up to 8 Backstab attacks which is really brutal with Tidefall. Lots of micro though because of all the sneaking and running around invisible. Boots of Speed help.
Dual wielding is always a good option for rogues - if you pick a heavy one hander like sabre than also backstabs will be ok. Or just do a backstab with a gun and switch to dual weapons.

 

The easiest class for this is the fighter in my opinion. Sturdy even when build for offense, no resource management, just run there (or charge in later levels), knock down enemies and finish them off. Very reliable.

 

Monks are fine with weapons, look at the Monksterlasher build in the build list. They are awseome as single target hunters - but they need a lot of micro to unfold their true potential. I did a single target CC monk with the "Fulmineo Prondroni" build in the build list. He's superfast (movement and attack speed) and specialized on Force of Anguish. I also made the Witch Doctor build which is very good at picking of annoying single targets. One of my most powerful single target CC/dmg builds. 

 

Barbs are more for mob fights, not so good at picking off single targets. But they can kill a whole encounter just woht Heart of Fury. However, due to Blood Thirst, I perfer to give my barbs two handers and only switch to dual sabres/hammers/battle axes/maces for Heart of Fury.

 

A druid is just insane with Relentless Storm + Form of the Delemgan + Spiritshift and then later Avenging Storm. But he can't jump right into the battle. He has to cast some stuff in order to be really effective.

 

Paladins are good as caster hunter as well - but less than the others. After the initial burst of FoD they have no means of reliable CC. But their sturdyness makes them an "easy to manage" skirmisher. I did a caster hunter paladin with the "Dull Runner" in the build list.

 

In order to make rogue and druid sturdier you can give them more CON as I said (to prevent a lot of resting because of low health) and combine it with self healing from Veteran's Recovery or taking the right form (like Boar for the druid - boars not only regenerate a bit which stacks with Vet. Recovery and have healing spells but also do wounding damage which is awesome). 

 

I guess as a "beginner" when it comes to a "behind enemy lines" guy I would pick dw fighter. Knockdown is pretty cool with two weapons. Charge is just insane.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Boeroer

[Conman]

Would a Fighter need much work to get them up to dual wield DPS levels of a monk or rogue? I can't seem to find any decent builds online for a light armoured dual wield fighter.

 

I like your Monskterlasher and Fulmineo builds, but I think your Witch Doctor is based around Long Pain and fists, where I hope to use Sabres/Stilletos and only use fists if I need the damage type.

Would either of those monk builds needs many or any changes to talents or stats (obviously weapon focus would need changed) to be used as a swashbuckling scoundrel that I'm aiming for?

 

I wish that this game had a "Quality" build like I used to use in Dark Souls 2 & 3, where I could try a bit of everything!!

Edited April 24, 2018 by Conman

[AramJese]

try a paladin, I would say because of the defenses bonuses and also, because of the self healing abilities, for example:

 

allround paladin killer:

 

try dual dawn in spring for lingering damage and fast blows, lower interrupt rate but with a higher perception level can be balanced.

try sworn enemy, deprive unworthy, lay on hands, remember rakhan field, intense flames, savage attack, veteran recovery, dual weapon style...

 

you can also use a battleaxe + this dagger, I use the edge of reason because of the recovery rate.

 

you will never die but always kill...

[Boeroer]

A fighter that is going to be used as a squishy hunter is the easiest to build in my opinion. He's also strong right from the start which can be a good motivation opposed to other classes that need more time to develop. He won't achieve the damage potential of a rogue or monk but he will be the easiest to play because he mainly uses passives and will hit and crit very reliably with Disciplined Barrage and be very sturdy despite being skilled for offense because of Vigorous Defense. After he got Charge he will experience a massive damage increase:

 

Abilites/Talents:

1. Disciplined Barrage
2. Weapon Focus Ruffian
3. Knockdown
4. Bonus Knockdown
5. Confident Aim
6. Two Weapon Style
7. Vigorous Defense
8. Rapid Recovery
9. Weapon Specialisation Ruffian
10. Weapon Mastery Ruffian
11. Armored Grace
12. Apprentice's Sneak Attack
13. Charge
14. Savage Attack
15. Sundering Blow
16. Fast Runner or Spirit of Decay when using dual Bittercuts

High MIG and good INT for self healing. Skill Survival to 12, then wear a hat that gives you +2 to survival and +1 CON (Rugged Wilderness Hat). Also looks like a pirate-thingy on the head... Then choose healing bonus while camping. With the Cloak of the Tireless Defender and a belt of Bountiful Healing he will be nearly unkillable as long as Constant Recovery is running.

 

He can then wear up to durganized scale armor + Gauntlets of Swift Action (or Mourning Gloves for a little tiny bit of recovery but good bonuses on kill) + dw durganized sabres and have 0 recovery without using any active speed buff. Sturdy and pretty good auto-attack dps. Also good single target CC with 3 knockdowns per encounter.

 

Concerning the Prondroni build: it's themed around fancy vailian stuff. You can just take the basic principle (stacking crazy move speed + attack speed, combined with Force of Anguish which is the best single target CC effect I know of) and build a swashbuckler out of it with eyepatch, baggy pants ans sabres and all. The great passive move speed alone makes it lots of fun to play. I chose the vailian theme also because both rapier and dagger come with speed and +5 acc which is great for dps and CC, but sabres are also nice. With durgan steel, Gauntlets of Swift Action and Vulnerable Attack + Swift Strikes on he could attack with 0 recovery in leather armor.

 

---

 

Another nice squishy hunter I forgot is the ranger - be he's best with Persistence + focus on pet damage - so no dual wielding sabre guy unfortunately

Edited April 24, 2018 by Boeroer

[Conman]

Thanks again, I think I'll give the Fighter a good attempt and see if I can't finish the game with him (with a slim chance that I'll go Monk last minute!)

 

Out of curiosity, as a non beginner, what class would YOU pick for a role hunting squishies? Or maybe you wouldn't?

[chickenhed]

Thanks again, I think I'll give the Fighter a good attempt and see if I can't finish the game with him (with a slim chance that I'll go Monk last minute!)

 

Out of curiosity, as a non beginner, what class would YOU pick for a role hunting squishies? Or maybe you wouldn't?

 

I'll chime in

 

For me, Monk is by far the best squishy hunter. Boeroer mentioned this earlier, but the monk is incredibly mobile and even if he wasn't, the class is built around wounds. So getting a bunch of disengage hits on you while on your way to the squishy caster is actually a good thing. It may be a tad controversial, but I love how the monk is built. I like being rewarded for getting punched in the face and then turning that around and unleashing hell on my target. 

 

Any other class, including even the barbarian, you generally do not want to get hit. As a monk, you thrive on it. I find that a lot of fun. 

 

But back to your question, the single target damage abilities from a monk are awesome, and with stunning blow and force of anguish you even have excellent CC. If that isn't enough, and you can't get to the back line, you have two more options. You can activate the long pain, and simply snipe the back line target with fists (torments reach and force of anguish work with the long pain), or you can use flagellants path and charge in there.

 

Monk is awesome and, to me, by far the most fun melee class.

[Boeroer]

Out of curiosity, as a non beginner, what class would YOU pick for a role hunting squishies? Or maybe you wouldn't?

Monk or Fighter - depends on the party. But most likely Monk.

[Elric Galad]

IMHO, Disciplined Barrage + Charge + Knockdown is unparalleled for squishy hunting. Monks are fast, but can't teleport without being wounded first and their CC does not last as long unless, once more, they get wound. Charge does a crapload of damages on its own. Oh, and the tremendous Acc buff from disciplined barrage also help getting guaranteed CC (you get 2 KD rolls due to dual wielding.

 

Monks are awesome of course, pretty fun, and they will do their job all over the duration of battle. I just find Figther better at engaging battle.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

Depends. Usually, once you run towards your target you catch some wounds on the way due to disengagement. You can start with Stunning Blows and Skyward Kick for a quick, non wound driven CC and once you have some wounds the FoA magic happens.

 

Of course it's superawesome to charge into the backline and deliver Knockdowns left and right - but Charge comes at lvl 13 while Long Stride and FoA are low level stuff.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Boeroer