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[Beta4] New Passives are Scams

theBalthazar

By theBalthazar
in Backer Beta Discussion

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One passive I'd like to see everyone able to pick at first level: Quick Switch

 

Weapon switching is a lot more important in this game than it was in the prior one and pretty much every class can have a build or two where it would be useful

I have a feeling Arms Bearer is going to end up being in the same boat, thanks to all the weapon proficiencies
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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

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Lol you already have 2 slots. Far enough in all cases.

 

+10 in one defense is extremely weak. Not really generous.

 

If you give +5 in accuracy with one ability, you must at least give +15 in one of 4 defenses.

 

Accuracy is the general response against 4 defenses.

 

So we can up until a bonus a 20 (5x4), easily. But globally 15 is a good average. 10 seems to be pretty weak.

Edited by theBalthazar
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Boeroer

Boeroer

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It's not. Since it is a passive it stacks with every other defense boost. So if your paladin already took an ability which gives him +25 to all resolve intellect afflictions or whatever and he also takes Bull's Will he would have +35 defense against all mind control afflictions (just an example). As you may know, the higher the defense the more valuable every single added point becomes.

 

So those +10 abilities may not be the "wow I need it so bad" stuff for everyone, but for defensive builds they are good.

Edited by Boeroer
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dunehunter

dunehunter

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It's not. Since it is a passive it stacks with every other defense boost. So if your paladin already took an ability which gives him +25 to all resolve afflictions or whatever and he also takes Bull's Will he would have +35 defense against all mind control afflictions (just an example). As you may know, the higher the defense the more valuable every single added point becomes.

 

So those +10 abilities may not be the "wow I need it so bad" stuff for everyone, but for defensive builds they are good.

 

Paladin/Fighter can reach 100+ in 4 defenses at lvl 9 with these passives.

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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

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You talk about resistance (best TRUE defenses actually indeed). I talk about pure defense.

 

Might and dexterity resistance are so much better than a +10 in willpower/fortitude/reflexes.

 

Question for you Boeroer : Why there 50 % hit to crit for Fighter ? because Obsidian realized the smallness of his small values. Sadly, it doesn't apply this for all values. Yes you can reach a good defense but it is not the question. The question is at what price and when ? With 2 times less abilities I am far more stronger with offensives stuff than that. You are an "artist" of building but you miss a thing. You look  final picture with all bonuses. I look all levels of developpements. Level 1. Level 2-3. level 6, level 9. At each level you don't have your complete bonuses.

 

In POE1 that was already the same stuff. Except for Chanter, you have no interrest to have a high defense. It is not totally rewarded by the game. Fighter and Paladin was awfully bad for that. Single target and slow.

 

Add defenses by an external mean was a better idea. With Priest. Or we can't play the same game... It was ok with Chanter only because he had a fairly poor panel of talents + Good passives effects arround him (No really need to attack with Mith fyr (team) + Dragon thrashed (auto)) But at the end, high defense or not, I did not see any difference. So it is a proof that I could put it full offensive, without problem.

 

And you can have this argument : Yes but Balthazar, you are an hardcore gamer, and for casual/begginner ? Think to them... They want a more secure situation.

 

In fact no, the beginning of POE1 is far more easy with glass canon team. More the longer of fight it lasts, more you have a risk of death. And you know that : Chanter at the start of the game is a pure poop until level 9^^ So Yes, waiting to accumulate the bonuses until the end of the game (where this is far less useful...), you need a big starting bonus. +15 is needed. You know it is a dice roll of 100. So 10 is absolutely not crazy for one defense... Yes you can pick 3, but at the cost of 3 abilities points.

Edited by theBalthazar
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Farsha

Farsha

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My ultimate argument :

 

I waiting one Single Fighter different than an other.

 

Because with the actual system, all classes characters, EVEN multiclass, will have the same talents (passives abilities, and active abilities for physical classes).

 

My words. It is an ultimate proof than there is a little problem with this system.

 

FOR EXAMPLE^^ :

 

Level 1, you take ? Knock down. Obvious.

 

Line 2 After that ? Fighters stance + One style.

 

ETC. ETC.

 

You see now ? You are almost forced to pick a logical choice. And quickly, for few lines, there are no "true choices" remains !

 

Only the wizard escape this phenomenon with a lot of active spells.

 

Well your choise on lvl 2 is to got single weapon, dual wepon, two handed, weapon and shield. That is the choise and you coose the logical talent for it.

Giving some neutral talents to all classes was good (like POE1). Since specialy those martial talents were only for fighter in previous build, so everyone who would wanted to use wepons decently would have to take figher as second class, which was stupid.

They are not super original but more fun stuff comes later in each tree, you have to start building your char with basics.

This system is really fine, though I'd like to see more of these neturatl talents for everyone like "gunner" everyone needs that. Now you have to go ranger to be able to really use guns, which sucks. Priest with arquebus was the best option in POE1 as he could take the talent.

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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

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Well your choise on lvl 2 is to got single weapon, dual wepon, two handed, weapon and shield.

 

 

Same choice for all classes. And if I am not a melee ? And if I want put in another passive ability ?

 

This line is now : line of all styles, no more.

 

Let's me explain differently. Each new line I have now a feeling of poor choice. It is perhaps wrong, false or what you want. But it is here. When I analyse this feeling there is a source of this :

 

Lack of choice.

 

Simple. I have play to great number of RPG and it is rare when I have this feeling. Here, even in MULTICLASS, there is a very limited choice. I'm not even sure that POE1 got less talents. I think there was more talents to choose each time I level up.

 

Plus, question. With Fighter would you never take disciplined strike - stances - One style - confident aim ?

 

No, 99 % of players will pick theses talent because the others are not at the level.

 

4 abilities already highway / obvious choice.

 

In clear, each line I would like have 4 choices like that. and that I say "yeah there will have to think ; everything is quite interesting"

 

Obvious choice must exceed your ability of allow abilities ! (4 interresting choice for 1 pt of abilitiy : dilemma = good !) If not, it is not very fun. And level up are boring.

Edited by theBalthazar
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Guest

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It sounds like you want every passive available at every level.

 

If you’re not melee then you’re probably going to take another spell. If you want another passive, then you’re probably either multiclassing or have a caster that likes to mix it up, in which case the passives available have utility.

 

At this point I think you’re just bitching because you like to bitch.

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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

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It is your opinion, I have mine...

 

Judge my arguments and not my personnality. If not, you are a troll and I don't speak with trolls. Often, when you are here, there is a problem, stop using ad hominem attacks.

 

I simply say there is a lack of unique abilities (particularly in passives) in few lines. No more, no less.

Edited by theBalthazar
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Guest

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Judge my arguments and not my personnality. If not, you are a troll and I don't speak with trolls.

Pop quiz: what is the glaring problem with these two sentences?

 

Hint: hypocrisy

 

Often, when you are here, there is a problem, stop using ad hominem attacks.

You’re using the term incorrectly. No ad hominems have been leveled against you.

 

An ad hominem would be to, say, call someone a troll because you didn’t like their argument (instead of actually addressing the argument) *ahem*

 

I simply say there is a lack of unique abilities (particularly in passives) in few lines. No more, no less.

No, you are *insisting* that there aren’t. Every time someone points out that there isn’t a problem here you drop a wall of text with the same list of grievances.
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Guest

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At this point I think you’re just bitching because you like to bitch.

 

And...

 

You’re using the term incorrectly.

 

Good bye I don't speak with you anymore !

Something that hurts your feelings isn’t automatically an ad hominem. And pointing out what an ad hominem is certainly isn’t an ad hominem.

 

But I gladly look forward to being on your ignore list.

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Guest

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:lol:

 

Lets please address the posts and not the posters. :yes:

:lol:

 

:lol:"If you don't agree, youre wrong!" *stomps foot*

We can start with; why are you so sad and angry at everything that doesn't agree with your interpretation? We can get into the deeper psychoanalysis later.

I don't think you understand what "interpretation" means. Look it up. Theres two other poster asking the same questions, yet you choose to lash out like a petulant child? See, I'm just pointing stuff out man. :lol:Its ok, you've shot your wad and don't really have anything to add. Ill let you off the hook. :thumbsup:

:yes:
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Novem

Novem

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If I may just jump in here (I hope I'm not crossing a line), I disagree with quite a bit that Balthazar says around here (though I mostly just lurk, he knows a lot more about the game than I do), but I don't think it's necessary to act out like this to get your point across. If anything, it just makes people less likely to agree with you. If you try having a calm, reasoned conversation like an adult, then I think you'll have a much better chance at getting him to come around to your way of thinking. Acting in such a way that upsets your opponent in a debate all but guarantees that they won't listen to anything you have to say. And that's not a very productive way to have a discussion. Just saying...

Edited by Novem
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Guest

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Feel free to report any of this. :yes:

 

Otherwise, lets please address the posts and not the posters. :yes:

 

Otherwise, lets please address the posts and not the posters. :yes:

I don’t think that’s necessary, but if you’re going to continue harassing me about things that you clearly don’t practice yourself, then that may change.

 

I’m starting to think it might be personal.

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Guest

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Nah, don't care if you post or not. I'm responding to a Report that other posters have made. :yes: But honestly, feel free to dance on that Report button and show me a thing or two. :yes:

I’m content to continue doing that here.
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