Maybe they should just make pistols ‘melee-able’ as weaker clubs that do crush/pierce damage....

Maybe they should just make pistols ‘melee-able’ as weaker clubs that do crush/pierce damage....

 

While no doubt simpler than modern firearms, and made of sturdy material, you couldn't pay me to try to shoot a muzzle loaded firearm after beating someone about the head and shoulder with it. 

 

(Both situations should get the 20% buff from dual weapon stance)

 

This is very strange to me, and especially in the case of using the pistol at range as it just doesn't make any sense why someone should be able to aim and shoot a pistol faster when holding a sword in their other hand than when they are just holding a single pistol. I think this bonus should only apply to weapons of the same type (i.e 2 melee or 2 ranged weapons). For the same reason I don't really like the suggestion of the single weapon talent affecting them either, as the added accuracy, in my mind, reflects the wielders ability to stabilize the weapon by using two hands when necessary or by being able to move without the hindrance of an encumbered hand. From a logical perspective, being able to seamlessly transition between ranged and melee is benefit enough of wielding a sword and pistol and it needs not benefit from dual wield or single weapon talents; however, from a game balance perspective this may make it seem kind of weak compared to other options so there may be no real incentive to ever do so under those circumstances (aside from the fact that it looks cool ).

 

Maybe they should just make pistols ‘melee-able’ as weaker clubs that do crush/pierce damage....

 

While no doubt simpler than modern firearms, and made of sturdy material, you couldn't pay me to try to shoot a muzzle loaded firearm after beating someone about the head and shoulder with it. 

 

 

But that is exactly what they did.

 

Many pistols had a large brass knob on the bottom of the hand grip. This both served as a counterweight to balance the weight of the pistol and to serve as a striking surface.

 

 

(Both situations should get the 20% buff from dual weapon stance)

 

This is very strange to me, and especially in the case of using the pistol at range as it just doesn't make any sense why someone should be able to aim and shoot a pistol faster when holding a sword in their other hand than when they are just holding a single pistol. I think this bonus should only apply to weapons of the same type (i.e 2 melee or 2 ranged weapons).

Playing devil's advocate, nothing about wielding two weapons, both melee or both ranged, logically makes you attack faster than a single weapon, either.

 

 

(Both situations should get the 20% buff from dual weapon stance)

 

This is very strange to me, and especially in the case of using the pistol at range as it just doesn't make any sense why someone should be able to aim and shoot a pistol faster when holding a sword in their other hand than when they are just holding a single pistol. I think this bonus should only apply to weapons of the same type (i.e 2 melee or 2 ranged weapons). For the same reason I don't really like the suggestion of the single weapon talent affecting them either, as the added accuracy, in my mind, reflects the wielders ability to stabilize the weapon by using two hands when necessary or by being able to move without the hindrance of an encumbered hand. From a logical perspective, being able to seamlessly transition between ranged and melee is benefit enough of wielding a sword and pistol and it needs not benefit from dual wield or single weapon talents; however, from a game balance perspective this may make it seem kind of weak compared to other options so there may be no real incentive to ever do so under those circumstances (aside from the fact that it looks cool ).

 

 

It wasn't until the 1950s with the implementation of the modern technique of the  pistol (Col. Jeff Cooper) and the Weaver stance that pistol shooters started to use two hands. Prior to that it was one hand only.

 

I don't think that pistols should be dual wielded as it just is not effective for anything except wasting ammunition and missing faster. It definitely should not give you a +50% attack speed buff like it currently does.

 

Gameplay wise giving the single weapon style bonus to the pistol shot and then to the use of the one handed weapon in melee seems to fit thematically as well as mechanically. Firing once and then using it as a club looks to be beyond the game engine, even Fallout 4 got weapon bashing all jacked up and they have a much larger budget. Actually I think Doom was the only game I've played where going from shooting to melee was integrated well.

 

 

 

(Both situations should get the 20% buff from dual weapon stance)

 

This is very strange to me, and especially in the case of using the pistol at range as it just doesn't make any sense why someone should be able to aim and shoot a pistol faster when holding a sword in their other hand than when they are just holding a single pistol. I think this bonus should only apply to weapons of the same type (i.e 2 melee or 2 ranged weapons).

Playing devil's advocate, nothing about wielding two weapons, both melee or both ranged, logically makes you attack faster than a single weapon, either.

 

Actually, with some melee weapons, it certainly does. Lets say I'm swinging a mace in my right hand, I miss, I reset my shoulder and bring the mace back around for another swing, now if I had a mace in my left hand as well, I could carry that momentum through and strike with the left mace while simultaneously resetting my right shoulder for another strike, effectively doubling the rate of my attacks.

 

Actually, with some melee weapons, it certainly does. Lets say I'm swinging a mace in my right hand, I miss, I reset my shoulder and bring the mace back around for another swing, now if I had a mace in my left hand as well, I could carry that momentum through and strike with the left mace while simultaneously resetting my right shoulder for another strike, effectively doubling the rate of my attacks.

 

If I'm picturing this right, you're saying that if, using my right hand, I swing from right to left, I then have to wind back up to swing right to left again. If, instead, I use the fact that my right hand is to my left to swing left to right, then I'm not really losing any speed compared to using one in each hand. No time is wasted bringing my arm back to the right, I can just swing again immediately. But I'm not an expert in melee combat, so I don't know if that actually works.

 

 

Maybe they should just make pistols ‘melee-able’ as weaker clubs that do crush/pierce damage....

 

While no doubt simpler than modern firearms, and made of sturdy material, you couldn't pay me to try to shoot a muzzle loaded firearm after beating someone about the head and shoulder with it. 

 

 

But that is exactly what they did.

 

Many pistols had a large brass knob on the bottom of the hand grip. This both served as a counterweight to balance the weight of the pistol and to serve as a striking surface.

 

 

Aye, you are right. However, I would argue the reliability of firearms in POE sort of obviates the use of them as clubs. The lack of misfiring, both minor and catastrophic, would make using them as clubs sort of a win win situation. 

 

 

Actually, with some melee weapons, it certainly does. Lets say I'm swinging a mace in my right hand, I miss, I reset my shoulder and bring the mace back around for another swing, now if I had a mace in my left hand as well, I could carry that momentum through and strike with the left mace while simultaneously resetting my right shoulder for another strike, effectively doubling the rate of my attacks.

 

If I'm picturing this right, you're saying that if, using my right hand, I swing from right to left, I then have to wind back up to swing right to left again. If, instead, I use the fact that my right hand is to my left to swing left to right, then I'm not really losing any speed compared to using one in each hand. No time is wasted bringing my arm back to the right, I can just swing again immediately. But I'm not an expert in melee combat, so I don't know if that actually works.

 

 

 

Yeah, basically. A lot of martial arts teach this as well. Think of the human body as rotating about a central axis; enemy strikes at your left, left rotates back, right rotates forward; enemy strikes at your right, right rotates back, left rotates forward, etc. 

 

Or think of it this way: when you punch, you punch not just with your arm, also with your hlps and body and legs. So, punch right the right, right arm/hip rotate forward, and thus left hip rotates back; punch with the left, left hip rotates forward, right rotates back, etc. 

 

I mean it's not the only technique out there or anything but it's definitely a thing.

Beign realistic I think it dosnt fit here. No real army ever used dual wielding because it is the worst thing you can do in a combat. You need insane amounts of training to be even realiable and someone with a shield or a weapond with more range and the same training can stil kick you ass easily. Even in duels the off-hand was almost always used as a parry element, throught a main gauche or a Buckler but rarely for attack (some techniques). So I would see realistic equiping a blucker or very small weapon ganinig a deflection bonus maybe? But hey dual wielding its cool and we are in a fantasy world soooo lets go wild.

From the realistic point of view weapon+firearms would only work as a starting shoot and then engaging at melee (as someone said in this thread) but again we are in a fantasy world, and for the sake of fun builds it would be nice to gain a free shoot between X melee attacks at melee. Or maybe an activated abilitie that shoots (Gangplank style  ).

What I want to say it is that I'm on the side that thinks we can sacrifice "some" realistic aspects to gain some fun builds.

 

PD: forgive my english.

Edited December 12, 20178 yr by Roda

What I want to say it is that I'm on the side that thinks we can sacrifice "some" realistic aspects to gain some fun builds.

Fun!?!? But video games aren't supposed to be fun...

 

In all honestly though, I agree, we should be able to use that pistol in melee somehow, whether shooting a single shot at point blank or smacking someone upside the head with it or whatever. The way it is now just seems... boring.

Maybe we can consider a special weapon style, 1h and pistol, but instead of the modal there is a single shot with extra crit chance and damage in melee. 

One hand weapon gives 12 accuracy which equals to 12 Perception, dual wielding gives -50% recovery time which equals to 17 dex, mmm and you also get more stats from offhand when dual wielding. Sounds like there's no reason to use one hand weapon...

Hey you bunch of inquisitive gamers,

 

The current design for pistol/sword attacks;

 

(Both situations should get the 20% buff from dual weapon stance)

While in Melee - Characters will only use the Sword

While at Range - Characters will stay at range and only shoot

 

This of course can/may change. Give it some love, let us know how it feels. Getting the 'right' feel on this one is definitely on our mind and we are looking for any tweaks we can make.

 

I got your backs

-SKing

 

 

Would you get a one-handed bonus for the weapon you're using?

 

Because if you don't, then it'll feel like you're being pretty strongly penalized for doing the cool swashbuckler sword-and-pistol thing.

With the new AI system, I'm hoping I can set it up so that if I'm dual wielding a rapier and pistol:

 

IF being attacked in melee: defend self with rapier

IF target is at range: fire pistol once, then run in with rapier

 

...or something like that.

Dual wielding should give less attack speed bonus and maybe a small deflection bonus.