Can a Ranger stay with leadspitter all game? Over godagh/stormcaller/persistence? I can't choose what I want to use.

[StormOwnz]

Which one is going to be the highest dps. Any insight is appreciated thank you.

[StormOwnz]

I've read somewhere that the godagh bow with durgan steel is best. Is this true?

[Boeroer]

Persistence with durgan steel is the highest single target dps weapon for a ranger due to wounding. You need high MIG.

 

It's also very good for a ranger because its wounding triggers Predator's Sense.

 

The Rain of Godhagh Field is the best ranged weapon for a cipher. That's because wounding doesn't generate focus.

 

Lead Spitter is great for burst damage, but its dps is strictly inferior to bows.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Boeroer

[StormOwnz]

Without the micro does persistence still outdmg the rain of godagh bow?

[Golo X Egde]

What about borresaine?

[Boeroer]

Which micro do you mean?

 

It does woundig damage automatically. Woundig is a raw lash and gets more powerful with MIG. The base value is 25% of your pre-DR damage roll. If you hit for 40 damage pre DR that's additional 10 raw damage with 10 MIG. If you had 20 MIG it would be 13 raw damage (and so on). With decent MIG it's the best dps ranged weapon for a ranger in general.

 

Imagine you meet an enemy with 20 DR: your initial 40 damage would be reduced to 20, but the raw lash would still hit for 13. This is the power of woundig. It also works against pierce-immune foes.

 

The damage from Predator's Sense which triggers 100% of the time comes as a bonus on top (if that's what you meant with micro).

 

Another plus: you can get Persistence very early and start enchanting it with a lash and quality (fine, exceptional...). So you profit from those investments throughout the whole playthrough.

 

I would even pick Stormcaller over Rain of Godhag Field. With a bow cipher I would always use the Rain, it's the best focus generator at range - but not with a ranger.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Boeroer

[StormOwnz]

What I meant by micro is constantly switching targets to apply the dot to all the mobs. Like your mad hornet build.

[Boeroer]

You don't need to do that. Wounding damage stacks. The Mad Hornet only did it because of Deep Wounds (which don't stack). In order to get the most out of Deep Wounds you need high MIG, high INT and hit different targets. With wounding you only need high MIG (low INT is even better) and you can simply fire at one enemy all the time. You can't see it on the enemy (but in the combat log): the wounding damage stacks.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Boeroer

[chickenhed]

You don't need to do that. Wounding damage stacks. The Mad Hornet only did it because of Deep Wounds (which don't stack). In order to get the most out of Deep Wounds you need high MIG, high INT and hit different targets. With wounding you only need high MIG (low INT is even better) and you can simply fire at one enemy all the time. You can't see it on the enemy (but in the combat log): the wounding damage stacks.

 

I've been gone for a while so forgive this random reply, but does wounding (and dots in general) show up as damage done in the character panel yet? I remember it not showing up. Which always annoyed me.

 

Same with the ranger pet. It's part of the class! At the very least I would love to see its damage done as compared to other party members during a playthrough. 

[Boeroer]

No, both wounding's and ranger's pet damage will not get documented on the char sheet. That's a reason why a lot of people don't realize how powerful wounding (and animal companions) are. You can download and install MaxQuest's UPMod. It documents all damage sources correctly if I'm not mistaken. 

[anameforobsidian]

Is an enchanted leadspitter better than silver flash?

[Boeroer]

No. Silver Flash procs Divine Mark with every second shot (~47% per shot: 10% chance with every one of the 6 pellets) and blinds in a cone shaped AoE (friendly fire). It is clearly better than Lead Spitter.

[StormOwnz]

How would you build that Ranger for persistence?

[Moneo]

I used both Lead Spitter and the Rain with my ciphers. Well, LS provides you a ****load of burst dmg. The damage from LS varies a lot depending on target's DR, and it seems that against low-DR foes LS can outdamage everything. In particular, it can one-shot hostile wizards. But against mid-DR enemies its damage is much worse, and against high-DR, it's miserable.

 

So I went with the Rain for my ranged cipher. It provides high DPS and very fast and reliable focus flow. Perhaps, durganized Sabra Marie would be even better (considering you crit a lot), but you get it too late in game, whereas the Rain is obtainable during mid-game. You can enter White Marsh armed with it.

 

And don't forget, with the Rain (or other bow), you don't need to spend a talent point for the Gunner talent. But for the most efficience with the bows, you need to reach 0 recovery. DAoM potion, durganized light armor, Gloves of Swift Action etc.

[Boeroer]

How would you build that Ranger for persistence?

High MIG (important for wounding, the higher the better), DEX (it's impossible to reach 0 recovery without consumalbes with Persistence) and PER , low INT (low INT raises wounding's dps).

 

Wood Elf or Hearth Orlan, wolf companion

 

Talents/abilites:

1. Marked Prey

2. Weapon Focus Peasant

3. Predator's Sense

4. Marksman

5. Stalker's Link

6. Resilient Companion

7. Takedown

8. Brutal Takedown

9. Driving Flight

10. Vicious Companion

11. Stunning Shots

12. Merciless Companion

13. Twinned Arrows

14. Apprentice's Sneak Attack

15. Vengeful Grief

Story talents: Merciless Hand or Mob Justice, Dungeon Delver, Effigy's Resentment Devil of Caroc or Sagani, Gift of the Machine, Galawain's Boon, Song of the Heavens, Scale Breaker

 

Skills: Survival 14 (+2 from Jack of Wide Waters) for +30% damage against flanked targets

 

Items: Stalker's Torc, Cloak of the Frozen Hunt, Gauntlets of Swift Action, Glanfathan Stalking Boots, Ring of Thorns, Bartender's Ring, Ultimate Hat of Alluring Perfection, Jack of Wide Waters.

 

Try to stack as much accuracy as you can right at the start (Weapon Focus, Marksman, Stalker's Link...). Don't forget the pet - with Predator's Sense alsways on it hits like a truck. Brutal Takedown only has to overcome 1/4 or enemies DR, it's perfect to take out and kill casters and other high priority targets very quickly even if they have high DR. The wolf does the best single target damage, that's why I prefer him. He's also one of the faster attacking pets.

 

Flank an enemy with your tank + pet. Your ranger will get a damage bonus of +75% against "flanked by your pet" enemies (+30% from survival, +10% from boots, +15% from Apprentice's Sneak, +20% from Stalker's Torc). With Mob Justice and Effigy's Resentment Sagani + Stalker's Link you will get a bonus of +16 ACC in that situation, too - or +10 ACC and +30% crit damage with Merciless Hand - both is good. The pet will get a damage bonus of +95% (Vicious + Merciless Comp. + Predator's Sense). Against tough bosses or enemies with very high deflection Marked Prey is really good.

 

You don't need Penetrating Shots because of wounding.

[HyperionOrange]

 

How would you build that Ranger for persistence?

High MIG (important for wounding, the higher the better), DEX (it's impossible to reach 0 recovery without consumalbes with Persistence) and PER , low INT (low INT raises wounding's dps).

 

Wood Elf or Hearth Orlan, wolf companion

 

Talents/abilites:

1. Marked Prey

2. Weapon Focus Peasant

3. Predator's Sense

4. Marksman

5. Stalker's Link

6. Resilient Companion

7. Takedown

8. Brutal Takedown

9. Driving Flight

10. Vicious Companion

11. Stunning Shots

12. Merciless Companion

13. Twinned Arrows

14. Apprentice's Sneak Attack

15. Vengeful Grief

Story talents: Merciless Hand or Mob Justice, Dungeon Delver, Effigy's Resentment Devil of Caroc or Sagani, Gift of the Machine, Galawain's Boon, Song of the Heavens, Scale Breaker

 

Skills: Survival 14 (+2 from Jack of Wide Waters) for +30% damage against flanked targets

 

Items: Stalker's Torc, Cloak of the Frozen Hunt, Gauntlets of Swift Action, Glanfathan Stalking Boots, Ring of Thorns, Bartender's Ring, Ultimate Hat of Alluring Perfection, Jack of Wide Waters.

 

Try to stack as much accuracy as you can right at the start (Weapon Focus, Marksman, Stalker's Link...). Don't forget the pet - with Predator's Sense alsways on it hits like a truck. Brutal Takedown only has to overcome 1/4 or enemies DR, it's perfect to take out and kill casters and other high priority targets very quickly even if they have high DR. The wolf does the best single target damage, that's why I prefer him. He's also one of the faster attacking pets.

 

Flank an enemy with your tank + pet. Your ranger will get a damage bonus of +75% against "flanked by your pet" enemies (+30% from survival, +10% from boots, +15% from Apprentice's Sneak, +20% from Stalker's Torc). With Mob Justice and Effigy's Resentment Sagani + Stalker's Link you will get a bonus of +16 ACC in that situation, too - or +10 ACC and +30% crit damage with Merciless Hand - both is good. The pet will get a damage bonus of +95% (Vicious + Merciless Comp. + Predator's Sense). Against tough bosses or enemies with very high deflection Marked Prey is really good.

 

You don't need Penetrating Shots because of wounding.

 

Hey Boeroer, I've had Pillars for awhile now, and never quite managed to get far into it before getting distracted by another game, but I always had fun reading and trying out your builds. Now I'm thinking it's time I actually beat the darn thing, before the second one releases. I'd like to try this build out, but I had  a quick question about the INT. When you say low INT, how low do you recommend?

[Boeroer]

Hi,

 

I didn't try out which score you need in order to maintain the wounding status on a enemy exactly without overlap. Also later you want to stunlock enemies with stunning shots. So I usually went with 8 or so to be on the safe side. Or I used Sagani...

 

You'd have to find the sweet spot between recovery, DEX, armor penalty and INT. For example: if you have a Chanter with Sure Handed Ila you could have lower INT because you attack faster.

 

Since wounding and stunning have a base duration of 5 secs if I remember correctly I guess that even 3 INT is enough if your DEX is maxed and your armor is thin (padded max). If not you would either need to use an item with +INT or retrain for a bit more INT.

[vanyel54]

Two remarks :

- I always take Outlander's Frenzy for my ranged character. 25% speed boost free at each fight is too good to bypass.

- Concerning Stormcaller, the DPS is surely inferior to persistence but you have more CC (Returning Storm). It surely depends of your party composition.

[Boeroer]

Yes,

 

Stormcaller's dps is indeed inferior, but the reduced shock DR is very good if you have other party members with shocking attacks or shocking lashes (druid with Wildstrike Shock for example, monk with shocking lashes on weapons and/or Lightning Strikes and so on). Like you said: party composition matters as well.

 

The CC effect of Returning Storm is only affecting single targets and loses appeal once you have stunning shots, but it's a nice addition nonetheless - especially with Driving Flight and Twinned Arrows. Also the damage of Relentless Storm is not bad if you also took Heart of the Storm (which I would do because it also raises Stormcaller's damage by 20% - its shock AND pierce damage by the way) and because of the reduced shock DR.

 

Persistence on the other hand can be enchanted with an additional lash and with durgan steel. Combined with wounding it is clearly the better single target damage dealer (or dual target if one counts Driving Flight). Combined with the higher damage output of the pet (always +50%) you get a lot higher single target damage overall.

 

With Stormcaller you don't want to drop INT that much (because of the duration of Relentless Storm's stun and also because you need Wounding Shot to be active longer in order to trigger Predator's Sense - if you use it at all) - with Persistence you are encouraged to drop INT (and then Outlander's Frenzy is not very good).

 

So it totally depends what you want from your bow ranger. Both are excellent weapons.

 

If you want to take out single targets asap and like to boost your pet's damage I would use Persistence. If you want good single target damage and a bit of "random" CC and shock damage & support and want to neglect the pet (a bit) in favor of tha ranger then I would take Stormcaller.

 

Another advantage of Stormcaller: you don't need any resources to make it a great weapon. So you can spare durgan steel and dragon/kraken eyes for somebody else.

 

I like both a lot. 

 

By the way: Binding Roots is a great ability if you have high INT. So if you have high INT on a ranger anyways I would recommend Binding Roots. It stucks like forever and has high ACC bonuses. Thorny Roots is also not bad. It only has to overcome 1/4th of enemies' DR. That makes it attractive as well. The very high range of Binding Roots, combined with the damage, makes taking out enemy casters really easy.

 

Another thing: Prestidigitator's Missiles work with Driving Flight and Penetrating Shots and also have a very high range. It's quite good if you take it early. Together with Thorny Roots you can take out enemies from far, far away. It even works with Stalker's Link and also Vicious Aim (if one likes that - but only the ACC part, not the damage). So - sometimes I use it and a cloak of minor missiles on a ranger.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Boeroer

[vanyel54]

Another thing: Prestidigitator's Missiles work with Driving Flight and Penetrating Shots and also have a very high range. It's quite good if you take it early. Together with Thorny Roots you can take out enemies from far, far away. It even works with Stalker's Link and also Vicious Aim (if one likes that - but only the ACC part, not the damage). So - sometimes I use it and a cloak of minor missiles on a ranger.

 

Intriguing idea ! Never thought about using Driving flights with spells. Is this the only spell that works with it ?

 

No. Silver Flash procs Divine Mark with every second shot (~47% per shot: 10% chance with every one of the 6 pellets) and blinds in a cone shaped AoE (friendly fire). It is clearly better than Lead Spitter.

 

Silver Flash is indeed much better. Divine Mark + Blinded afflication is really strong. But you've got it soooo late

 

What about borresaine?

 

The draining effect is not really useful for a ranged character. But you have the stunning. And you could buy it as soon as you're in Defiance Bay.

I still prefer Persistence but it depends what you wanna do with your ranger (dps/cc).

[Beanstalk]

Kind of an old topic, hope you don't mind the bump, but I have a question about Lead Spitter vs. Persistence:

 

So I get that Persistence has the highest DPS... for normal attacks.

 

But what if you throw Wounding Shots into the mix? Wouldn't the "100% of damage done as a DOT" heavily favor slow, bursty weapons? And does Persistence's built-in DOT even "count" for Wounding Shot?

 

So, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Persistence has the highest sustained DPS?

 

Which begs the question: How long would a fight need to last in order for Persistence to overtake high burst weapons? In my experience, once you've used up your Wounding Shots on a slow weapon like Lead Spitter, most fights are in the cleanup phase anyway.

 

Now, the obvious choice here would be to just use both - start out with Lead Spitter, then switch after the second shot. Which is what I'm doing right now - but that leaves me without an option against enemies with really high DR.

 

Speaking of which - Boeroer mentioned that you don't need Penatrating Shot on Persistence; if you're still reading this, can you expand on this a little more? Surely there is a DR value where PS becomes a DPS gain - did you just mean there are better talent options available?

[Boeroer]

It's surely a lot better to use Wouding Shot on a weapon with higher damage per attack. You are right that for example switching to Lead Spitter for Wounding Shot is a smart thing to do instead to use ith with Persistence. Persistence is great for rangers, especially because it not only is the best ranged dps weapon for auto-attacks but also because it constantly triggers Predator's Sense for the animal companion - but it's not the best option for a Wounding Shot (UNLESS you have Twinned Shot which will almost double your damage per attack with Persistence - then it's totally fine to use the bow with Wounding Shot).

 

Yes, I meant that you can take better talents than Penetrating Shot with Persistence. Because Persistence's wounding damage is calculated PRE DR Penetrating SHot doesn't influence wounding at all. And with high MIG the wounding damage is not 25% but more - with 20 MIG for example you'll do ~33% raw, multiplicative damage. So Penetrating Shot has relatively low influence on your overall damage per hit compared to other bows (that don't feature wounding). In most cases it's better to attack more quickly than to do mere +5 dmg per shot (while you slow yourself down considerably).

Also note that DR bypass does NOT work for an elemental lash that you put on Persistance. All this makes Pen Shot a weak pick for Persistence. Rather take something else in my opinion - for example Gallant's Focus (if you don't have a paladin with Zealous Focus or a Priest with Blessing). 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Boeroer

[Beanstalk]

Well, I'm running Kana and a shifting-focused Boar-druid, so reliably proccing Predator's Sense is very easy. Good point about Twinned Arrow - though once you can pick it, it's time to think about switching to Stormcaller. 

 

Speaking of which, I'm guessing Penetrating Shot is also a weak pick for Stormcaller, since you want to crank out as many shots as you can to get those Returning Storm procs. What would be better options? Outlander's frenzy, obviously, but what else?

 

I'm using Sagani though - since she has decent MIG but crap DEX, maybe it's better to stick with Persistence after all?

[Boeroer]

An enchanted Persistence has way better single target dps than Stormcaller (because Stormcaller can't have a lash and also no Durgan Steel). Stormcaller reduces shock DR for you and party members and the one-time-strike from Returning Storm is cool (it doesn't proc a "real" Returning Storm like a Druid would - with reoccurring lightnings. Instead there will be only one lightning). And of course Stormcaller would spare you lots of money and resources that could go to somebody else then.

You are right: I wouldn't use Penetrating Shot on Stormcaller either, even though it means +10 damage per shot once you use Twinned Shot against targets with 11+ shock DR.

An must-have talent for Stormcaller is Heart of the Storm. +20% damage without any drawback is nice.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Boeroer

[dreamrider]

Boeroer,

Is it worth it to enchant Persistance to Exceptional, pending getting the 2 (what the...!?!) dragon's eyes needed for Superb?  She will lose he Damage 3 bonus if one does this.

 

She loses damage bonus, from +45% to +30%, but her accuracy bonus rises from +4 to +8.  With the Wounding Damage-over-Time effect, more shots that connect is a particularly good thing.  Also, the way the Hit calculation works, higher ACC will yield a relatively higher damage scaling out of the possible damage spread, sooo…

 

…how do you think the balance comes out?

 

 

Obviously, when the PC gets 2 Sky Dragon Eyes there is almost nothing that would be a better use than raising Persistance to Superb.  +12 ACC and +45% DAM.