Barb + Blood Thirst + Cannoneer Belt = Death

[Jojobobo]

So I've mentioned elsewhere I thought this would be a good combo, but let me just say this is ridiculously good.

 

Blood Thirst gives you zero recovery. The fully upgraded the belt gives you +3 Might, +3 Dex and +2 Int, as well as 3 per rest of Firebrand, 1 per rest of Torrent of Flame and 1 per encounter of Flame Shield when hit by a crit (which for a Barb is all the time).

 

I'm only in Act II on PoTD solo, but I'm playing a 21 Might Living Lands Aumaua, 24 Might with the belt (I've not even had time to get the Training Grounds yet). This gives me 37-56 damage with Firebrand, 57-86 damage with Torrent of Flame (at +15 accuracy I may add), and I think +10 accuracy with Flame Shield (which I believe is also effect by Might, but it's a fairly meaty effect anyway).

 

Currently Flame Shield procs instantly more or less (and I have Shod-in-Faith which procs at the same time), and then I start hitting things with Frenzy Firebrand. Enemies die either from Firebrand, or from Flame Shield, which nets me an instant free recovery hit - with either more Firebrand or Torrent of Flame any time I want. I also have Veteran's Recovery and Savage Defiance, so keeping healthy just isn't an issue.

 

This completely pulps enemies in seconds, and I haven't even hit HoF or anything like that yet. I know it's only Act II, but I've played PotD solo before and never seen anything like this. Not sure if it's nerf worthy, or maybe just triggering the appearance of the salesman much later (because to be honest the Flame Shield and stat boosts are insane anyway), but it sure is insanely powerful. A Barb Retal stacking build with this belt wouldn't have a hard time throughout the game IMO, as any Retaliation kill nets you a zero recovery Firebrand hit in the first place.

[Boeroer]

Firebrand with Doemenel is nice. Because it doesn't care that much that you can't speed-enchant it when you have Bloodlust + Blood Thirst.

 

Hm... but how is it different from using Forgemaster's Gloves and a Potion of Flame Shield (besides the stat points that won't make a whole lot of difference)? Don't think it needs a nerf because of that.

 

I played a retaliation barb exactly like that, but added Battle Forged and Blooded, One Stands Alone of course and so on. Flame Shield stacks with Battle Forged. It is strong. But I have to say the damage output is dwarfed by a Monksterlasher who uses the same approach - despite that he has no Blood Thirst.

 

I also had the impression that Hours of St. Rumbalt is a better pick after you get Durgan Steel and Sky Dragon Eyes. +8 accuracy, more speed, even higher crit modifier of *1.3, *0.45 dmg, crit conversion and two damage types - and prone on crit of course. This all makes is the better weapon although it's base damage is lower.

 

But yes - until that Firebrand is a beast. And you need zero enchantment resources to be great.

 

By the way: Colored Coat triggers Wicked Briars as spelldefense which also trigger Blood Thirst when they kill with a pulse. It's a nice addition.

 

The binding rope ensures you crit a lot more with Firebrand. Not in a solo game unfortunatly and not when using this special belt of course.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Boeroer

[mosspit]

Damn, I wanted to lay low till the sequel hit but this is really motivating to do 1 more playthrough. In particular, I ran my last playthrough with a retaliation barb that is positioned as an Anchor Tank and was already very pleased with the way that build plays out.

[Whipstitch]

Firebrand has been nasty for ages. Even when I don't build around it i still usually spend a fair amount of time with the Forgemaster's Gloves on a tanky character so that I can have a shield, a gun and a damage set without blowing any talents on it. The base damage is good enough that you can lay down the hurt quite nicely even without much talent or ability support.

[Boeroer]

Yes, but the high base damage also makes it an ideal weapon for any character with a lot of damage modifiers (like crit or even Merciless Hand, high MIG and so on). A rogue with Firebrand is absolutely murderous (until you can lay your hands on durgan steel). I'd also say it's the perfect backstab weapon - if only the summoning wouldn't break your stealth.

It's also great with Flames of Devotion + Intense Flames, Scion of Flame, Sworn Enemy and stuff.

[Jojobobo]

Hm... but how is it different from using Forgemaster's Gloves and a Potion of Flame Shield (besides the stat points that won't make a whole lot of difference)? Don't think it needs a nerf because of that.

 

I played a retaliation barb exactly like that, but added Battle Forged and Blooded, One Stands Alone of course and so on. Flame Shield stacks with Battle Forged. It is strong. But I have to say the damage output is dwarfed by a Monksterlasher who uses the same approach - despite that he has no Blood Thirst.

Well if you compare any build to the monstrous Monksterlasher, it's probably going to come across as a little weak! I'd say the upside for such a Barb build in comparison is that it can open with Dragon's Leap, HoF and Barbaric blows, so you might kill groups slightly quicker due to access to those highly damaging nukes. Retaliation then would become more a matter of cleanup, and provides fast weapon attacks due to Blood Thirst, so I think it pulls away slightly from being a dedicated Retal build - Retaliation just becomes a very nice extra.

 

In terms of Forgemaster's Gloves + the potion, it's not hugely different but it is slightly. Putting a pin in Fire Brand because it can be surpassed with things like Hours of St. Rumbalt, per encounter Flame Shield is quite significant as as it makes it truly spammable. While you can depend on potions for your Flame Shield, getting an extensive supply is a little time intensive and can encourage the player to think about conserving their supply - and plus their duration is unaffected by Intellect, whereas with 20 Intellect the Cannoneer Flame Shield works for over a minute. I think both the added duration, and eliminating worries about supply combined with the fact you don't need to go through the drinking potion animation all stack up to make it a worthy option.

 

The other key thing is that the belt provides Torrent of Flame, which is seamlessly added to the existing Barb repertoire of Dragon Leap -> HoF -> Barbaric Blows as an opener, and has a hefty accuracy bonus that plays well off the Reflex reduction conferred by Dragon Leap due to Dazed, plus it has a huge AoE. It does damage your party, so you need to be a little careful, but it's still well worth it IMO.

 

When you take its other attributes as a whole package (able to buy it in Act I, Firebrand being insane through most of the game, it's trivial to upgrade, the stat bonuses being exactly in a Barb's wheelhouse and potentially eliminating the need for other +stat items) it all becomes pretty powerful - particularly if you are running solo due to the Flame Shield alone. I wouldn't think physically nerfing its characteristics isn't necessary, but moving it outside of Act I might be a good idea. That said it's not all that tricky to get to Act III early, so moving it or changing the timing of when Bird-Scorned appears at Anslog's Compass might be a little arbitrary anyway.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's very good!

Edited November 24, 2017 by Jojobobo

[mosspit]

How is the casting of those abilities like? If they are insta-cast, it will be even more attractive.

 

Forgemasters has the casting animation where the user extends his/her arms to summon the weapon. Any difference in the case of the belt?

[Jojobobo]

Just testing it quickly, the animation appears to be the same as the Forgemaster's Gloves. Still, it's a fast animation from what I'm seeing, same goes for Torrent of Flame. As mentioned, the Flame Shield is insta-cast on a crit.

[mosspit]

Ahhh didn't notice it was trigger on crit effect. Thats just beautiful!

[Boeroer]

Yeah, that's pretty neat and of course way better tha n using a potion.

[Whipstitch]

Yes, but the high base damage also makes it an ideal weapon for any character with a lot of damage modifiers (like crit or even Merciless Hand, high MIG and so on). A rogue with Firebrand is absolutely murderous (until you can lay your hands on durgan steel). I'd also say it's the perfect backstab weapon - if only the summoning wouldn't break your stealth.

It's also great with Flames of Devotion + Intense Flames, Scion of Flame, Sworn Enemy and stuff.

My preferred recipient in the No Barbarians & Monks division is Pallegina, so no argument there. Big reason I don't use it on rogues very often is because I don't use rogues very often despite my "canon" PC from release day being a Natlan rogue from Deadfire. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Whipstitch

[Mocker22]

This looks like a lot of fun tbh. I never was into barbs when I played PoE originally, but they've had some nice improvements over time.

 

Was curious what ur starting stats were. I've always found it very hard to choose on a barb as they need like....everything lol. I was thinking of trying something like this...

 

M-21 - max dmg, but moreso for the healing bonus.

C-10

D-10 - Hopefully Blood Thirst helps make up for this somewhat

P-16 - need to on crit stuff to land as I plan to use Rumbalts late game, this I'm unsure of tho

I-18 - Gotta max out carnage and healing durations

R-3 - Rely on Shod in faith, veterans, savage defiance to stay alive and try to pump DR up pretty high.

 

Let me know whatcha think.

 

Thanks

[Boeroer]

Lowish DEX doesn't feel too bad once you have Bloodlust and Blood Thirst. In the early game it's a bit tedious with a two hander even though you'll have Frenzy. You could start with something like dual sabres or so without investing in it (just to benefit from the 50% faster recovery) and switch to two handers (Firebrand) once you got Blood Thirst.

 

Actually the best way to use Blood Thirst is to start with a dual weapon setup and wiggle down enemies as fast as possible and once the first is near death switch to a two hander. But that's not too cool with Firebrand because you would have to summon it in the midst of the fight.

 

I you have a disabler in the party (wizard fo example) then it's nice to use Firebrand with Barbaric Blow once the mobs are disabled and open for crits (especially if you also picked Doemenel's Merciless Hand). Because Firebrand has enormous base damage (average 25), is Annihilating (+50%) and Barbaric Blow adds another 50% to crit damage your first strike might already kill enemies which will start the Blood Thirst chain right at the start. I mean with Firebrand (in this situation) you would deal 106 burn damage on the average crit (including Scion of Flame, One Stands Alone and Two Handed Style). This kills a lot of enemies right away. With crits + Blood Thirst, Firebrand is hard to beat. Only other setup that is more fun is Redeemer + Blood Thirst + group of vessels (that are not above your level).

Edited November 28, 2017 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

Oh, this is a nice coincidence.

I continued my solo cipher from 2 months ago yesterday. (got interrupted by Divinity)

The first thing I did in Act 2 was rush Firebrand, since I didn't know what the message about Deadfire items in the menu meant.

The belt seems better than the gloves early game, since you can put on gauntlets of swift action (I already maxed Dex, Mi is only at 15 base, which is still 24 with Inn + whore + beefloaf (I'm Aumaua).

[Raven Darkholme]

So yeah, tested this on my old high level cipher and I don't think any weapon has higher dps and focus build than firebrand cast with the belt for Gauntlets of swift action.

 

Thing about firebrand over other 2handers is the higher base damage, it's 20-30, while for example Abydon's hammer only has 14-20.

The next thing is being able to get another 20% damage from Scion of Flame.

With 26 DEX, Alacrity/Parasite, Gauntlets and Durgan enchanted Helmsman's you have a little recovery but almost not noticeable, the attack animation is relatively slow, but hitting for 40-50 on a graze, 50-70 on a hit and 60-100 on a crit is absolutely ridiculous, you're only a couple of frames slower than dual wielding but the damage is easily 50% more and most enemies have slightly less flame DR than physical.

Main weaknesses are 3 per rest restriction and not being able to use the Looped Rope, but this belt is so much earlier available and it just ... excuse the pun .... burns.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Raven Darkholme

[Raven Darkholme]

This looks like a lot of fun tbh. I never was into barbs when I played PoE originally, but they've had some nice improvements over time.

 

Was curious what ur starting stats were. I've always found it very hard to choose on a barb as they need like....everything lol. I was thinking of trying something like this...

 

M-21 - max dmg, but moreso for the healing bonus.

C-10

D-10 - Hopefully Blood Thirst helps make up for this somewhat

P-16 - need to on crit stuff to land as I plan to use Rumbalts late game, this I'm unsure of tho

I-18 - Gotta max out carnage and healing durations

R-3 - Rely on Shod in faith, veterans, savage defiance to stay alive and try to pump DR up pretty high.

 

Let me know whatcha think.

 

Thanks

Sorry for tripleposting, saw this kinda late.

I've also played a barbarian not too long ago and maxing Dex actually gives you more dps than MI with Firebrand, also keep in mind you will always easily have +6 Mi from Inn + Salty mast whore + Beefloaf.