Your perfect world state for PoE2 (NEW QUESTIONS UPDATE!)

[Juodas Varnas]

I mean would he even know he was Thaos unless his soul was awakened? And even then you seem different when you are reborn.

Isn't the whole point of Thaos that his soul is basically perma-awakened and he always keeps his memories upon death?

At least that's how i understood it.

[Valmy]

 

I mean would he even know he was Thaos unless his soul was awakened? And even then you seem different when you are reborn.

Isn't the whole point of Thaos that his soul is basically perma-awakened and he always keeps his memories upon death?

At least that's how i understood it.

 

 

I figured that was going to end once he got sent back to the wheel.

 

But maybe I doomed the world. Well at least it means Eora won't get boring.

[Juodas Varnas]

 

 

I mean would he even know he was Thaos unless his soul was awakened? And even then you seem different when you are reborn.

Isn't the whole point of Thaos that his soul is basically perma-awakened and he always keeps his memories upon death?

At least that's how i understood it.

 

 

I figured that was going to end once he got sent back to the wheel.

 

But maybe I doomed the world. Well at least it means Eora won't get boring.

Eh, i sent him back to the wheel with his memories intact as well, it was sort of a theme of mine with the character (i refused to delete anyone's memories)

 

Besides, we kicked his ass once, we can do it again, if need be.

[Aramintai]

Besides, we kicked his ass once, we can do it again, if need be.

 

Except, he may be born again after quite a while and by that time you may be dead already. Will there be anyone to stop him then?

So, nope, for me there are no second chances for that guy.

[Silvestre]

 

I am a little (or very) late to this, but sent my answers. Is there a truly perfect world state though? I did not exactly play with perfect choices but what felt right for my character to choose at the time. It was fun to see what other choices people made/consider perfect though.

 

You haven't been paying attention.

Not "perfect" as "flawless".

"Your perferct" choices you want the most, that you want to transfer to the sequel.

 

 

I see. I'm only transfering to continue playing the same character, it's still hardly the choices I'd really want to transfer or wish upon the people in Dyrwood :D

 

Besides, we kicked his ass once, we can do it again, if need be.

 

Except, he may be born again after quite a while and by that time you may be dead already. Will there be anyone to stop him then?

So, nope, for me there are no second chances for that guy.

 

 

That's what made me want to destroy his soul. Better not give him any chance to return since he seemed to always return as an awakened soul. If I remember the things we hear about him right.

[Yria]

 

I figured that was going to end once he got sent back to the wheel.

 

He is always sent to the Wheel upon death. It's just that he Awakens in his teens each time (thanks to his goddess) and gets back to whatever he was doing in his previous life. At least that's what Lady Webb says.

 

Which brings the question, who's to stop Woedica from simply Awakening him again even if you erase his memories? Or do we somehow perma-erase them, so there is nothing to remember at all?

I never condired this possiblity, but now I think I'm going to destroy his soul from now on just to be on the safe side.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Yria

[Juodas Varnas]

 

 

I figured that was going to end once he got sent back to the wheel.

 

He is always sent to the Wheel upon death. It's just that he Awakens in his teens each time (thanks to his goddess) and gets back to whatever he was doing in his previous life. At least that's what Lady Webb says.

 

Which brings the question, who's to stop Woedica from simply Awakening him again even if you erase his memories? Or do we somehow perma-erase them, so there is nothing to remember at all?

I never condired this possiblity, but now I think I'm going to destroy his soul from now on just to be on the safe side.

Who's to stop Woedica from just putting Thaos's soul back together after you destroy it, i mean, it doesn't seem like it's something out of the realm of possibility for a deity. (I mean if Eothas can put HIMSELF back together after being blasted by the Godhammer, what'd be so difficult about putting back together a mortal soul)

 

If Obsidian decides to bring him back, i don't think it even matters what you did with him.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Juodas Varnas

[morhilane]

Support Woedica, replace Thaos!

 

It would be funny if that is what would happen in the ending if you did.

 

Now that I think of it, I totally need to do a playthrough that support Woedica...

[Valmy]

 

 

I figured that was going to end once he got sent back to the wheel.

 

He is always sent to the Wheel upon death. It's just that he Awakens in his teens each time (thanks to his goddess) and gets back to whatever he was doing in his previous life. At least that's what Lady Webb says.

 

Which brings the question, who's to stop Woedica from simply Awakening him again even if you erase his memories? Or do we somehow perma-erase them, so there is nothing to remember at all?

I never condired this possiblity, but now I think I'm going to destroy his soul from now on just to be on the safe side.

 

 

Ah. I guess I forgot that part once I reached the Endgame. Whoops.

[Messier-31]

Which brings the question, who's to stop Woedica from simply Awakening him again even if you erase his memories? Or do we somehow perma-erase them, so there is nothing to remember at all?

I never condired this possiblity, but now I think I'm going to destroy his soul from now on just to be on the safe side.

 

That's why I put him in the same prison as Iovara, so he can have an eternity to ponder.

[Juodas Varnas]

 

Which brings the question, who's to stop Woedica from simply Awakening him again even if you erase his memories? Or do we somehow perma-erase them, so there is nothing to remember at all?

I never condired this possiblity, but now I think I'm going to destroy his soul from now on just to be on the safe side.

 

That's why I put him in the same prison as Iovara, so he can have an eternity to ponder.

And what's to stop Woedica (or anyone else) from returning Thaos to the wheel?

 

Since you know, you, as a measly mortal, can do that to Iovara (though it's considered to be a 'cruel' decision, for some reason? Which is kinda dumb in my opinion)

[Messier-31]

And what's to stop Woedica (or anyone else) from returning Thaos to the wheel?

 

Check the post by FlintlockJazz:

 

I locked Thaos in the well.  I know many seem to think there's nothing to stop the gods from releasing the souls in there, since its mentioned that those who ask and are given forgiveness are freed, but I think that's a misinterpretation: they are not freed from Breith Eaman, they are just able to wander the surface above it and are not bound to the rock.  Even the gods can't seem to fully free the people there, and their souls don't return to the cycle of reincarnation.  It is the forgiven ones who enable you to survive the fall into the well once you gain the support of one or more gods, if they were freed then what are they still doing there?  As the wiki states regarding Breith Eaman:

 

To achieve release, they had to beg the forgiveness of a god, pledge their soul to them, and then they would be lifted from this place to the world above. In truth, they received leniency but not true mercy. The spite of Woedica is eternal and so the souls would linger above, at the site of the old Court, not permitted to leave the island, forever severed from the cycle.

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Breith_Eaman

 

So they would be released from the adra prison but not from Breith Eaman is my reading, and while it mentions the spite of Woedica I don't think it is actually her power that locks them there and that it is beyond the power of the gods to truly release people from there, even Woedica.

[Juodas Varnas]

 

And what's to stop Woedica (or anyone else) from returning Thaos to the wheel?

 

Check the post by FlintlockJazz:

 

I locked Thaos in the well.  I know many seem to think there's nothing to stop the gods from releasing the souls in there, since its mentioned that those who ask and are given forgiveness are freed, but I think that's a misinterpretation: they are not freed from Breith Eaman, they are just able to wander the surface above it and are not bound to the rock.  Even the gods can't seem to fully free the people there, and their souls don't return to the cycle of reincarnation.  It is the forgiven ones who enable you to survive the fall into the well once you gain the support of one or more gods, if they were freed then what are they still doing there?  As the wiki states regarding Breith Eaman:

 

To achieve release, they had to beg the forgiveness of a god, pledge their soul to them, and then they would be lifted from this place to the world above. In truth, they received leniency but not true mercy. The spite of Woedica is eternal and so the souls would linger above, at the site of the old Court, not permitted to leave the island, forever severed from the cycle.

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Breith_Eaman

 

So they would be released from the adra prison but not from Breith Eaman is my reading, and while it mentions the spite of Woedica I don't think it is actually her power that locks them there and that it is beyond the power of the gods to truly release people from there, even Woedica.

 

But i mean, you're literally able to drag Iovara (kicking and screaming) back into the wheel, even if the whole prison was designed that way (and let's assume that gods can't actually release him), what's there to prevent a Leaden Key Watcher (it's not like Watchers are one in a million, i mean you run into Maerwald) from doing the same to Thaos?

 

All i'm saying is that no matter what you choose to do with him, in the end, i don't think it even matters.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Juodas Varnas

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

And what's to stop Woedica (or anyone else) from returning Thaos to the wheel?

 

Check the post by FlintlockJazz:

 

I locked Thaos in the well.  I know many seem to think there's nothing to stop the gods from releasing the souls in there, since its mentioned that those who ask and are given forgiveness are freed, but I think that's a misinterpretation: they are not freed from Breith Eaman, they are just able to wander the surface above it and are not bound to the rock.  Even the gods can't seem to fully free the people there, and their souls don't return to the cycle of reincarnation.  It is the forgiven ones who enable you to survive the fall into the well once you gain the support of one or more gods, if they were freed then what are they still doing there?  As the wiki states regarding Breith Eaman:

 

To achieve release, they had to beg the forgiveness of a god, pledge their soul to them, and then they would be lifted from this place to the world above. In truth, they received leniency but not true mercy. The spite of Woedica is eternal and so the souls would linger above, at the site of the old Court, not permitted to leave the island, forever severed from the cycle.

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Breith_Eaman

 

So they would be released from the adra prison but not from Breith Eaman is my reading, and while it mentions the spite of Woedica I don't think it is actually her power that locks them there and that it is beyond the power of the gods to truly release people from there, even Woedica.

 

But i mean, you're literally able to drag Iovara (kicking and screaming) back into the wheel, even if the whole prison was designed that way (and let's assume that gods can't actually release him), what's there to prevent a Leaden Key Watcher (it's not like Watchers are one in a million, i mean you run into Maerwald) from doing the same to Thaos?

 

All i'm saying is that no matter what you choose to do with him, in the end, i don't think it even matters.

 

My impression is that Watchers are meant to be exceptionally rare, that a real one IS a one in a million kind of deal. You actively hunt down Maerwald and his presence was included for story purposes (to show you what will happen and as a story hook). I also don't see the Leaden Key having Watchers in their ranks, in fact they actively hunt down and kill Watchers as potential threats, and to release Thaos they have to know he's there (only you actually know what happened to his soul, even your party members won't know unless your character has told them since all they would see is Thaos dying and perhaps your character standing looking vacant in their usual Watcher-way) AND to be able to get down there, which wasn't easy and required the support of the gods, and once they get down there they run the risk of finding out the truth that the Leaden Key had been keeping secret from itself.

 

And it probably won't matter. I just like the idea of forcing Thaos and Iovara to spend eternity together, plus most of my characters like the idea that they can potentially access Thaos at a later date if needed.

[Aramintai]

But i mean, you're literally able to drag Iovara (kicking and screaming) back into the wheel, even if the whole prison was designed that way (and let's assume that gods can't actually release him), what's there to prevent a Leaden Key Watcher (it's not like Watchers are one in a million, i mean you run into Maerwald) from doing the same to Thaos?

 

 

All i'm saying is that no matter what you choose to do with him, in the end, i don't think it even matters.

I recently replayed the ending section of POE - there was no option to return Iovara to the wheel, just destroy her soul, thus releasing her from the wheel entirely.

 

As for Thaos, I doubt Woedica or any other god can undo whatever it is you decide to do.

 

First, there is no evidence in the game that they can restore a completely destroyed soul, gone from the wheel, or restore memories of a soul wiped clean to it's primal essence, which is unprecedented as it is. 

 

Second, retconing POE1 major endgame decision by some dev whimsy will cheapen the whole game's plot and devalue time spent playing it. Also, returning dead villains always looks like somebody ran out of ideas, it's always more interesting to create a new villain.

[Yria]

 

But i mean, you're literally able to drag Iovara (kicking and screaming) back into the wheel, even if the whole prison was designed that way (and let's assume that gods can't actually release him), what's there to prevent a Leaden Key Watcher (it's not like Watchers are one in a million, i mean you run into Maerwald) from doing the same to Thaos?

 

 

All i'm saying is that no matter what you choose to do with him, in the end, i don't think it even matters.

I recently replayed the ending section of POE - there was no option to return Iovara to the wheel, just destroy her soul, thus releasing her from the wheel entirely.

There is such an option, I think I even used it in one of my playtroughs. But to access it you first need to choose something like "So it's all your fault that I'm going crazy now". Then a dialogue option will appear to "punish" her by sending her to the Wheel against her will. I guess it's considered a [Cruel] option because she really, really doesn't want to go there since it would make her forget the truth about the gods.

[Juodas Varnas]

 

But i mean, you're literally able to drag Iovara (kicking and screaming) back into the wheel, even if the whole prison was designed that way (and let's assume that gods can't actually release him), what's there to prevent a Leaden Key Watcher (it's not like Watchers are one in a million, i mean you run into Maerwald) from doing the same to Thaos?

 

 

All i'm saying is that no matter what you choose to do with him, in the end, i don't think it even matters.

I recently replayed the ending section of POE - there was no option to return Iovara to the wheel, just destroy her soul, thus releasing her from the wheel entirely.

 

As for Thaos, I doubt Woedica or any other god can undo whatever it is you decide to do.

 

First, there is no evidence in the game that they can restore a completely destroyed soul, gone from the wheel, or restore memories of a soul wiped clean to it's primal essence, which is unprecedented as it is. 

 

Second, retconing POE1 major endgame decision by some dev whimsy will cheapen the whole game's plot and devalue time spent playing it. Also, returning dead villains always looks like somebody ran out of ideas, it's always more interesting to create a new villain.

Sure you can return her to the wheel.

Here you go

 

 

I'm only saddened by the fact that this is supposed to be the 'cruel' and 'evil' option.

[Aramintai]

 

 

But i mean, you're literally able to drag Iovara (kicking and screaming) back into the wheel, even if the whole prison was designed that way (and let's assume that gods can't actually release him), what's there to prevent a Leaden Key Watcher (it's not like Watchers are one in a million, i mean you run into Maerwald) from doing the same to Thaos?

 

 

All i'm saying is that no matter what you choose to do with him, in the end, i don't think it even matters.

I recently replayed the ending section of POE - there was no option to return Iovara to the wheel, just destroy her soul, thus releasing her from the wheel entirely.

 

As for Thaos, I doubt Woedica or any other god can undo whatever it is you decide to do.

 

First, there is no evidence in the game that they can restore a completely destroyed soul, gone from the wheel, or restore memories of a soul wiped clean to it's primal essence, which is unprecedented as it is. 

 

Second, retconing POE1 major endgame decision by some dev whimsy will cheapen the whole game's plot and devalue time spent playing it. Also, returning dead villains always looks like somebody ran out of ideas, it's always more interesting to create a new villain.

Sure you can return her to the wheel.

Here you go

 

 

I'm only saddened by the fact that this is supposed to be the 'cruel' and 'evil' option.

 

Ah, I see. Interesting, never played cruel options, so I didn't see this. Weird that it's cruel, though. I thought destroying her soul was cruel.

 

Still, that doesn't negate what I wrote about Thaos.

[Messier-31]

I'm only saddened by the fact that this is supposed to be the 'cruel' and 'evil' option.

 

 

Ah, I see. Interesting, never played cruel options, so I didn't see this. Weird that it's cruel, though. I thought destroying her soul was cruel.

 

Destroying her soul isn't cruel, because Iovara accepts willingly such a fate (if you convince her in doing so).

 

Throwing her back into the Wheel is cruel, because you do it against her will, it is something she doesn't want.

[Juodas Varnas]

 

I'm only saddened by the fact that this is supposed to be the 'cruel' and 'evil' option.

 

 

Ah, I see. Interesting, never played cruel options, so I didn't see this. Weird that it's cruel, though. I thought destroying her soul was cruel.

 

Destroying her soul isn't cruel, because Iovara accepts willingly such a fate (if you convince her in doing so).

 

Throwing her back into the Wheel is cruel, because you do it against her will, it is something she doesn't want.

 

Does she accept destruction willingly? I remember pretty high stat checks to persuade her to let you do that to her.

 

Honestly, i felt like i should've been able to at least attempt to convince her to return to the wheel through the magic of my 30ish Resolve stat (heck, you could just have her say "nope" to that)

But eh, i might be misremembering things, maybe she does say something along those lines and i just don't remember it.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Juodas Varnas

[Aramintai]

Does she accept destruction willingly? I remember pretty high stat checks to persuade her to let you do that to her.

 

Yea, she's ok with it if you convince her with your logic. She likes that - the last rebellious act to stop being a cog in the wheel system and free from the gods. Kinda stupid though - nobody will know about her truth if you destroy her soul, nobody will know about her truth if you send her to the wheel (unless of course she Awakens later). So in the end it's only you, your party and Thaos who knows.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Aramintai

[Juodas Varnas]

 

Does she accept destruction willingly? I remember pretty high stat checks to persuade her to let you do that to her.

 

Yea, she's ok with it if you convince her with your logic. She likes that - the last rebellious act to stop being a cog in the wheel system and free from the gods. Kinda stupid though - nobody will know about her truth if you destroy her soul, nobody will know about her truth if you send her to the wheel (unless of course she Awakens later). So in the end it's only you, your party and Thaos who knows.

Nobody will know her truth if she stays in the prison either, seriously, sending her back to the wheel, with the chance that she might awaken one day, is probably the best way out for her!

 

Heck, as a watcher you can awaken people (like you do in White March with the dwarves) and you could easily just tell her that you'll send her back to the wheel, find her afterwards and just awaken her.

And BAM, she can continue her pointless crusade once again, just without the inquisition breathing down her neck, instead of just sitting idly in some soul prison for whole of eternity.

[Aramintai]

Nobody will know her truth if she stays in the prison either, seriously, sending her back to the wheel, with the chance that she might awaken one day, is probably the best way out for her!

 

Heck, as a watcher you can awaken people (like you do in White March with the dwarves) and you could easily just tell her that you'll send her back to the wheel, find her afterwards and just awaken her.

And BAM, she can continue her pointless crusade once again, just without the inquisition breathing down her neck, instead of just sitting idly in some soul prison for whole of eternity.

 

Yea, exactly, that's why it's weird that this option is considered evil. I think I'd have preferred to do this, if that wasn't so and she wasn't so against it.

 

Personally, I think it would have been way cooler if the Watcher had Iovara's soul instead of some random inquisitor. Could have been a more personal and impactful story that way, especially in the encounters with Thaos.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Aramintai

[Yria]

Tbh I never really understood why destroying her soul is considered some kind of rebellion agaisnt the tyrannical gods. It's a rebellion against the natural order of things, if anything. She says it herself that the Wheel existed well before the gods, it's not their creation, so not being a cog in the Wheel system =/= giving the gods middle finger. It's not even their system. Her soul being erased from existence is way more convinient for them (at least for those of them who are worried about the kith finding out their secret). 

[Aramintai]

Tbh I never really understood why destroying her soul is considered some kind of rebellion agaisnt the tyrannical gods. It's a rebellion against the natural order of things, if anything. She says it herself that the Wheel existed well before the gods, it's not their creation, so not being a cog in the Wheel system =/= giving the gods middle finger. It's not even their system. Her soul being erased from existence is way more convinient for them (at least for those of them who are worried about the kith finding out their secret). 

Yea. Btw, doesn't her imprisonment in Breith Eaman indirectly prove that the gods can't destroy or wipe a soul? It could have been so much easier to do just that to her and there would be zero chance anybody would ever know their secret? Instead, now they got a leak in the system - a bunch of people know and it is yet to be seen in POE2 whether the gods will take action against them. From what we've seen in the trailers you and your companions are still alive (unless you killed them in POE1) and relatively well (you being stomped by marching Eothas looks like an accident - wrong place, wrong time).

 

And from what I've gathered from the game, the gods are reluctant/unable to mess with the wheel system in direct order, entrusting what manipulation is available to mortal hands and Engwithan machines. The only thing that definitely changed in the wheel system with the creation of the gods are the godlike, but they could be some sort of involuntary byproduct (a glitch?) of gods insertion into the system.