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I hated the Rogue, but one thing I liked about him was his insane crit rate in combination with a disabling weapon (e.g. Borresaine). In fact, my crit rate was consistently around 85 percent from the early going onward, so with Borresaine I was stunning virtually everything I hit. But otherwise, I really dislike the Rogue in this game. Stealth is weaker in this game (and accessible to all classes anyways), and the Rogue has extremely low avoidance relative to its implementation in other games. So all I have left is single target damage and disables - which is not enough for me.

 

So the question is: What other classes can achieve such high crit rates? Needless to say, nobody in my group came close to the 85 percent crit rate, and the next best was the DPS Fighter at 40 percent - so less than half.

 

But is there a close approximation? I am willing to play any class but the Ranger. In particular, if I replace the Rogue, I'd want a ranged class capable of using the Borresaine.

 

Also, in general, what are the paths I can take to increase crit rates on any class?

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Well the two best ranged crit classes that would make use of a Bow are Rogue & Ranger, so hmmm.

 

I guess I would go for a high Perception Cipher.  Focus on Crowd Control spells like Mental Binding that will lower your target's defenses and thereby increase crit rate.

 

My Rain of Godagh Cipher had a pretty high crit rate.  

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Boost accuracy. That's it. The more accuracy the more crits.

 

But besides rogues and rangers there are no classes with high starting accuracy that are good with a war bow. Fighters with Disciplined Barrage can have good hit/crit ratios, as can monks - but both are pretty meh with a bow compared to their melee prowess. Monks have The Long Pain though which is ranged and crazy awesome: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/87160-class-build-the-witch-doctor-mid-ranged-dps-monk-disabler/

 

You can build a fighter with Disciplined Barrage, Confident Aim, Weapon Spec and Mastery, Into the Fray (used as ranged attack, is independent from weapon), Armored Grace and Clear Out (also works with ranged weapons like Into the Fray) - but he will also only do single target damage like the rogue. A bit less even, but he will be sturdier of course. Nothing great though.   

 

A wizard with war bow works ok if he uses Eldritch Aim and Merciless Gaze a lot and later aims for Cadebald's Blackbow (very powerful summoned bow) - but he will be nowhere near a rogue in terms of crits. And honestly wizards are just better with implements (or blunderbuss).

 

A chanter will be able to fire very fast, but he will have nothing to boost his accuracy (which isn't too good to begin with).

 

Cipher with war bow is nice, but the stuff that lets you crit a lot (Tactical Meld, Borrowed Instincts) will come quite late and you will be using your powers a lot for CC, not the bow. 

 

So, nothing obvious. For Borresaine the best options are rogue and ranger. 

 

Don't really get why you loathe the ranger so much - he's less micro than any caster.

Edited by Boeroer
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Well the two best ranged crit classes that would make use of a Bow are Rogue & Ranger, so hmmm.

 

I guess I would go for a high Perception Cipher.  Focus on Crowd Control spells like Mental Binding that will lower your target's defenses and thereby increase crit rate.

 

My Rain of Godagh Cipher had a pretty high crit rate.  

 

More on the build? ;) And what kind of crit rate are we talking about?

 

 

Boost accuracy. That's it. The more accuracy the more crits.

 

But besides rogues and rangers there are no classes with high starting accuracy that are good with a war bow. Fighters with Disciplined Barrage can have good hit/crit ratios, as can monks - but both are pretty meh with a bow compared to their melee prowess. Monks have The Long Pain though which is ranged and crazy awesome: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/87160-class-build-the-witch-doctor-mid-ranged-dps-monk-disabler/

 

You can build a fighter with Disciplined Barrage, Confident Aim, Weapon Spec and Mastery, Into the Fray (used as ranged attack, is independent from weapon), Armored Grace and Clear Out (also works with ranged weapons like Into the Fray) - but he will also only do single target damage like the rogue. A bit less even, but he will be sturdier of course. Nothing great though.   

 

A wizard with war bow works ok if he uses Eldritch Aim and Merciless Gaze a lot and later aims for Cadebald's Blackbow (very powerful summoned bow) - but he will be nowhere near a rogue in terms of crits. And honestly wizards are just better with implements (or blunderbuss).

 

A chanter will be able to fire very fast, but he will have nothing to boost his accuracy (which isn't too good to begin with).

 

Cipher with war bow is nice, but the stuff that lets you crit a lot (Tactical Meld, Borrowed Instincts) will come quite late and you will be using your powers a lot for CC, not the bow. 

 

So, nothing obvious. For Borresaine the best options are rogue and ranger. 

 

Don't really get why you loathe the ranger so much - he's less micro than any caster.

 

I actually wouldn't mind a ranged Fighter, if the damage difference is only marginal. I am frankly sick and tired of baby-sitting the Rogue - even at range. He is so fragile that - unlike the other classes - I sometimes do not have the time to heal him.

 

I dislike the Ranger, because the pet seems like an extra character I need to control. The pet is also immersion-breaking for my role-play setting. I agree he requires less micro than casters, but I feel casters are kind of necessary, whereas Rangers are not. We human beings bear with unbearables that are unavoidable! ;)

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@OP

 

This is a link to the post made by MaxQuest that shows the possible qualifiers for aggro. MaxQuest along with Loren Tyr and Dr <3 are the veterans (whom I know) who would often view the game source codes to explain game mechanics.

Look at your own risk as understanding the mechanics might make the game less fun as you would begin to "game" the system.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86852-im-a-tank-why-would-i-want-resolve/?p=1810130

 

The enum parameters shows the possible preference for enemies and he used shade as an example, ie the enemy ai uses different qualifiers for different attacks.

 

How is this relevant? In my playthroughs, I notice that kith enemies, most noticeable are enemy barbarians and fighters, would make a beeline to my ranged character. Some playthroughs it was my backline support caster, others was my ranger. Which makes me suspect their aggro qualifier is set to LowestDefense or BehindAttacker. They will even eat engagements in order to attack thier targets. Bootomline is you will always have someone in your party that gets single out due the way the ai is coded.

 

 

As for your crit question, a rogue is hands-down the class that will have the best crit potential. Not only the reasons that Boeroer mentioned, rogues also have access to dirty/vicious fighting. Which gives 20% hit-to-crit conversion. You can further push this by having the hearth orlan race (10%) and equipping weapons with hit-to-crit conversion (eg tall grass). Thats on top of a class that already has high accuracy. It is the only class I can say that at end game will have twice as many crits than hits without trying too hard.

Edited by mosspit
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If a bow fighter floats your boat... ;)

 

The difference in damage compared to a rogue who shoots at targets with afflictions will be visible. Fighter can stack +40% damage with 2 talents and 1 ability plus the multiplicative boost from Confident Aim - let's say +50% with 2 talents and 2 abilites then - while the rogue does this with one affliction and 0 talent/ability points. And later the rogue can take Deathblows and will do +150% - the fighter will not get near this and all his great abilites will not work ranged (Charge for example).

 

Maybe it would be best if you give your rogue more CON and Veteran's Recovery - and give him a bit thicker armor. That should be enough to keep him alive.  

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Heh? Which 50%?

 

The rogue has mere +20% compared to other classes as far as I know.

Dirty fighting, one handed style and Merciless gaze. ;)

I didn't mean in comparison but all over.

Edited by Raven Darkholme
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I did a hearth orlan rogue with 90% (Minor Threat 10% + Dirty & Vicious Fighting 20% + One handed Aatuuk +25% + Durgan Steel +20% + Merciless Gaze 15%) - which basically means near 100% crit because ACC is also very high (one handed and dagger bonus = +17 ACC) - but it wasn't very spectacular to be honest. ;)

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I did a hearth orlan rogue with 90% (Minor Threat 10% + Dirty & Vicious Fighting 20% + One handed Aatuuk +25% + Durgan Steel +20% + Merciless Gaze 15%) - which basically means near 100% crit because ACC is also very high (one handed and dagger bonus = +17 ACC) - but it wasn't very spectacular to be honest. ;)

Crit without stun weapons :p

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High crit rate is really something you should be aiming for in general. Unless you're trying to solo then the thing is that there are classes with great accuracy/crit buffs and debuffs (ciphers, chanters, clerics) and there are classes with great raw damage skills (rangers, barbarians, rogues). You'll want a combination of both.

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@OP

 

This is a link to the post made by MaxQuest that shows the possible qualifiers for aggro. MaxQuest along with Loren Tyr and Dr <3 are the veterans (whom I know) who would often view the game source codes to explain game mechanics.

Look at your own risk as understanding the mechanics might make the game less fun as you would begin to "game" the system.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86852-im-a-tank-why-would-i-want-resolve/?p=1810130

 

The enum parameters shows the possible preference for enemies and he used shade as an example, ie the enemy ai uses different qualifiers for different attacks.

 

How is this relevant? In my playthroughs, I notice that kith enemies, most noticeable are enemy barbarians and fighters, would make a beeline to my ranged character. Some playthroughs it was my backline support caster, others was my ranger. Which makes me suspect their aggro qualifier is set to LowestDefense or BehindAttacker. They will even eat engagements in order to attack thier targets. Bootomline is you will always have someone in your party that gets single out due the way the ai is coded.

 

 

As for your crit question, a rogue is hands-down the class that will have the best crit potential. Not only the reasons that Boeroer mentioned, rogues also have access to dirty/vicious fighting. Which gives 20% hit-to-crit conversion. You can further push this by having the hearth orlan race (10%) and equipping weapons with hit-to-crit conversion (eg tall grass). Thats on top of a class that already has high accuracy. It is the only class I can say that at end game will have twice as many crits than hits without trying too hard.

 

Thanks for the useful link - as well as your elaboration.

 

I am still struggling to decide on my party, as there are so many viable options; and Rogues are still under consideration. (I had to re-start, because I downloaded the IE mod, did not keep more than 1 save, and that 1 save got bugged.)

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