Dragons

[Heijoushin]

It's difficult to create a single boss that can stand up to a whole team of people with varied abilities. Not without hideously bloating its health and making it flat-out immune to disabling effects. Which would be out of place in Pillars.

 

Yeah, I get the design reason, but unless there's a storyline reason why the dragon has an army hanging out with him (like Xaurips worshiping him), it still feels excessive. If it's impossible to come up with more creative boss encounters, then how about an option for the player to do something (stealth or quest) to get the dragon alone? People who beat up the dragon and his minions together can get a shiny Steam medal or something, whereas us crafty dragon-slayers can do the logical thing and corner him alone.  

[Ignatz the Insane]

Well, I disagree. They'd still be worthy encounters without this "cheapness" factor of throwing mobs at you.

 

I like the opportunity to use scrolls and potions while actually thinking about positioning, specific spell usage, and tactics.  With the exception of the first five levels or so,  you can steamroll most encounters on the hardest difficulties, especially on a second play through.   

[Blades of Vanatar]

Why can't a Dragon have minions? The Adra Dragon was a slick one for sure, plus he was stuck there, so of course he would want minions to go do his bidding and find a way to free him. He even tries to get you to do it for him.

[Pallegina's Panties]

Why can't a Dragon have minions? The Adra Dragon was a slick one for sure, plus he was stuck there, so of course he would want minions to go do his bidding and find a way to free him. He even tries to get you to do it for him.

 

Of course they can. Lord Firkraag has all kind of minions guarding/populating his lair that you have to slog through to get to him. Within the setting of game it makes perfect sense for less powerful, but equally wicked creatures being drawn to him like that.

 

That's quite different from the Alpine Dragon all of the sudden, for no reason other than pad out the encounter, literally conjures an army out of thin air as soon as he goes hostile.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Pallegina's Panties

[Blades of Vanatar]

But he summons otherworldly beings, which would be summons, not necessarily minions. And since he is a WM add on for higher level characters I don't see an issue with his encounter. But I will concede that he is purely a challenge encounter for experienced players. But since we already had other Dragons in game that fit a better in game role for the story line I don't see a issue with that personally.

[MortyTheGobbo]

Well, I disagree. They'd still be worthy encounters without this "cheapness" factor of throwing mobs at you.

 

You're free to disagree, but without an actual counter-argument, it's pretty empty. I have laid out why dragons need minions in order to be threatening. Can you do the same for your case?

 

 

It's difficult to create a single boss that can stand up to a whole team of people with varied abilities. Not without hideously bloating its health and making it flat-out immune to disabling effects. Which would be out of place in Pillars.

 

Yeah, I get the design reason, but unless there's a storyline reason why the dragon has an army hanging out with him (like Xaurips worshiping him), it still feels excessive. If it's impossible to come up with more creative boss encounters, then how about an option for the player to do something (stealth or quest) to get the dragon alone? People who beat up the dragon and his minions together can get a shiny Steam medal or something, whereas us crafty dragon-slayers can do the logical thing and corner him alone.  

 

 

Define "more creative". How would you make dragons more threatening without minions? If you gave players the option to remove the minions without fighting, most of them would do that, unless they're the kind who love a challenge. All the dragon fights are optional to begin with.

 

Besides, we've got four dragons in this game. Two have xaurips. Who are kobold knock-offs and worship them. One has smaller dragons. One just has smaller drakes, I think - the Sky Dragon. The only one where it's remotely an issue is the Alpine Dragon. And really... what's so odd about an ice dragon summoning ice spirits and ghosts?

Edited July 30, 2017 by MortyTheGobbo

[scythesong]

Most of PoE learning will happen from your dialogue/combat window - PoE is predominantly a numbers game, and your dialogue/combat window will tell you more about what's happening than what you actually see your characters doing.

 

Check your rolls, for example: (note that you can click the numbers for details about how the game came up with these results)

 

-Why are your guys not doing enough damage? Is your attack not high enough? Are you being debuffed? Are you not casting enough buffs? Is the dragon's deflection too high? Are you using buffs/debuffs that don't actually stack? Is the target immune to your attacks? Are you attacking the wrong kind of defenses?

 

-Why are you taking too much damage? Are your people getting critted? Are you being sneak attacked/deathblowed? Is the dragon's attack too high? Was everyone hit by the same attack? What type of defenses does the dragon's attacks target?

 

You are then supposed to tweak your gameplay to account for your party/enemy strengths/weaknesses.

 

Also, those minions are actually there to help you. You're supposed to use the battlefield to your advantage, unless you're some kind of die-hard fighters-only player. The game gave you a TON off CC to use against your numerically superior foes - use them. You're not supposed to be able to just go toe-to-toe against these guys and win - in PoE you are not some sort of godspawn.

Edited July 31, 2017 by scythesong

[Heijoushin]

Define "more creative". How would you make dragons more threatening without minions? If you gave players the option to remove the minions without fighting, most of them would do that, unless they're the kind who love a challenge. All the dragon fights are optional to begin with.

 

*shrugs* Not sure why this idea puts you off. If most players remove the minions and a few try a bigger challenge, doesn't that mean everybody wins?

 

I suppose I just see dragons as "loners". Proud, majestic beasts that don't associate that much with other creatures. If you want to have a "throne room" where the baddie is surrounded by his subordinates, then there are lots of much better options. But yeah, I suppose its fine if an ice dragon summons ice spirits. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Heijoushin