Politics Episode 8: WWF Edition

[BruceVC]

As long as we live in the world where the news talks about 'Russia hacking the election' that ain't happening.

volo dont be afraid of the truth, Russia did interfere in the US election with an intention to undermine Clinton and assure that Trump won

 

I can explain anything about this you may not be clear on?

[Volourn]

"volo dont be afraid of the truth, Russia did interfere in the US election with an intention to undermine Clinton and assure that Trump won

 

I can explain anything about this you may not be clear on?"

 

They didn't hack the election. CAPICHE?

[Gorgon]

 

Isn't freezing assets already a thing? Nothing should be seized without conviction.

 

The definition of Civil Asset Forfeiture from Wikipedia:

 

Civil forfeiture in the United States, also called civil asset forfeiture or civil judicial forfeiture[1] or occasionally civil seizure, is a controversial legal process in which law enforcement officers take assets from persons suspected of involvement with crime or illegal activity without necessarily charging the owners with wrongdoing. While civil procedure, as opposed to criminal procedure, generally involves a dispute between two private citizens, civil forfeiture involves a dispute between law enforcement and property such as a pile of cash or a house or a boat, such that the thing is suspected of being involved in a crime. To get back the seized property, owners must prove it was not involved in criminal activity.

 

​​In all other aspects of our jurisprudence the citizen is innocent until proven guilty. Until  it comes to that one thing the goddamned government loves above all other things: money. So they just made themselves this little exception to the 4th Amendment and told us to go f--k ourselves if we don't like it. Both the Democrats AND the Republicans love this. In fact only one political party in all the land of the free has fought against this legalized theft: http://www.lp.org

 

An example. Driving down the road with 100.000 in cash, being stopped by the police who seize your money on suspicion that you acquired it illegally. You now have the burden of proof that you are not a drug dealer. How exactly would you do that. The truth might not be good enough. 

[BruceVC]

You know we have a problem when the US  president starts looking into " if he  can pardon himself "    

 

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-defends-pardoning-everyone-did-nothing-wrong-640678

Edited July 22, 2017 by BruceVC

[redneckdevil]

 

As long as we live in the world where the news talks about 'Russia hacking the election' that ain't happening.

volo dont be afraid of the truth, Russia did interfere in the US election with an intention to undermine Clinton and assure that Trump won

 

I can explain anything about this you may not be clear on?

If ur outraged over hackers leaking DNC documents to undermine Hillary to the voters, then u should be equally appalled at the DNC for undermining Sanders for Hillary....

[HoonDing]

He's not a crook.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

As long as we live in the world where the news talks about 'Russia hacking the election' that ain't happening.

volo dont be afraid of the truth, Russia did interfere in the US election with an intention to undermine Clinton and assure that Trump won

 

I can explain anything about this you may not be clear on?

If ur outraged over hackers leaking DNC documents to undermine Hillary to the voters, then u should be equally appalled at the DNC for undermining Sanders for Hillary....

 

 

I am sure if Clinton won, it might be the bigger story. But she isn't the President.

 

(Not that I think much of the whole Russian controversy myself)

[Guard Dog]

If Clinton won, with the exception of who is on the Supreme Court, nothing would be different. There would still be scandal and dysfunction and talk of impeachment. The ACA would still be the law of the land, The people in Syria and elsewhere would still be killing each other by the hundreds. North Korea would still be doing it's thing and Russia and China theirs and we would still be doing ours.

 

It really is astonishing that so many people emotionally invested so much in the outcome of one election that families and friendships broke over it. And yet the choice really was of such little consequence after all is said and done.

[smjjames]

If Clinton won, with the exception of who is on the Supreme Court, nothing would be different. There would still be scandal and dysfunction and talk of impeachment. The ACA would still be the law of the land, The people in Syria and elsewhere would still be killing each other by the hundreds. North Korea would still be doing it's thing and Russia and China theirs and we would still be doing ours.

 

It really is astonishing that so many people emotionally invested so much in the outcome of one election that families and friendships broke over it. And yet the choice really was of such little consequence after all is said and done.

 

Well, our allies wouldn't be alienated and we'd still be in the Paris climate accords, so, not really nothing.

 

I'm gonna disagree with you on the scandals bit. Sure, the Republicans will still hammer her over emails and Benghazi, and there most likely would still be a Russia investigation. But I don't think there would be any new scandals (at least not right away) or Clinton getting caught up in the Russia web.

 

As for dysfunction, if you mean general dysfunction with Congress, then yeah, you can bet that the Republicans will blockade her just about everywhere. They aren't exactly wholly functional now either.

[Rosbjerg]

If Clinton won, with the exception of who is on the Supreme Court, nothing would be different. There would still be scandal and dysfunction and talk of impeachment. The ACA would still be the law of the land, The people in Syria and elsewhere would still be killing each other by the hundreds*. North Korea would still be doing it's thing and Russia and China theirs and we would still be doing ours.

 

It really is astonishing that so many people emotionally invested so much in the outcome of one election that families and friendships broke over it. And yet the choice really was of such little consequence after all is said and done.

 

*sponsored killing brought to you by the biggest arms dealers in the world.

 

I guess the biggest difference is how openly the corruption, self interest and wanton disregard for civil rights is being conducted - but then Trump just a ordinary businessman - he doesn't have the network to do it more covertly like the Clintons or Bushs.

[injurai]

 

If Clinton won, with the exception of who is on the Supreme Court, nothing would be different. There would still be scandal and dysfunction and talk of impeachment. The ACA would still be the law of the land, The people in Syria and elsewhere would still be killing each other by the hundreds*. North Korea would still be doing it's thing and Russia and China theirs and we would still be doing ours.

 

It really is astonishing that so many people emotionally invested so much in the outcome of one election that families and friendships broke over it. And yet the choice really was of such little consequence after all is said and done.

 

*sponsored killing brought to you by the biggest arms dealers in the world.

 

I guess the biggest difference is how openly the corruption, self interest and wanton disregard for civil rights is being conducted - but then Trump just a ordinary businessman - he doesn't have the network to do it more covertly like the Clintons or Bushs.

 

 

Sometimes it seems that the only real loss was the liberals push to change social language, but given how zero-tolerance they were about progress it's not surprising that backfired.

 

Either way, we are in for a hell of a term.

[smjjames]

 

 

If Clinton won, with the exception of who is on the Supreme Court, nothing would be different. There would still be scandal and dysfunction and talk of impeachment. The ACA would still be the law of the land, The people in Syria and elsewhere would still be killing each other by the hundreds*. North Korea would still be doing it's thing and Russia and China theirs and we would still be doing ours.

 

It really is astonishing that so many people emotionally invested so much in the outcome of one election that families and friendships broke over it. And yet the choice really was of such little consequence after all is said and done.

 

*sponsored killing brought to you by the biggest arms dealers in the world.

 

I guess the biggest difference is how openly the corruption, self interest and wanton disregard for civil rights is being conducted - but then Trump just a ordinary businessman - he doesn't have the network to do it more covertly like the Clintons or Bushs.

 

 

Sometimes it seems that the only real loss was the liberals push to change social language, but given how zero-tolerance they were about progress it's not surprising that backfired.

 

Either way, we are in for a hell of a term.

 

 

That was a small, if very vocal, minority of liberals.

 

Of course though, if Clinton got elected, all of the problems that the Dems have now, such as lack of messaging which got exposed with Trump getting elected and the falling way below of what they expected, would fester for another four years and might end up worse off than they are now. This poll shows pretty clearly the messaging hole that they are in.

[smjjames]

For the new motto/slogan/message that the Democrats are rolling out on Monday, they seem to have settled on "a Better Deal" and an economic message for their new messaging. In full, it's actually “A Better Deal: Better Jobs, Better Wages, Better Future”. Kind of has a bit of a ring of the New Deal thing to it. It did get mocked for being unoriginal, but Make America Great Again isn't Trump's invention either.

The Daily Beast article

WaPo article

So, what do you guys think? Remains to be seen whether it catches on.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Democrats' motto should be "We hate America and we're doing everything we can to destroy it!".

[smjjames]

That's the Republicans, not Democrats

[Volourn]

Nah. It is both of them and 99% of Ameirkans and 99% of the entire world.

 

Amerika was  supposed to be a symbol of freedom but the vast majority of people have NEVER believed in freedom. WW2 was NOt about fighting for 'freedom'. It was about beating up the 'bad guys'.

 

You want proof of  the fact that people don't believe in true freedom? Look at people's reactions - no matter the issue -  at people they disagree with them> It is all ban this ban that, censor this censor that, throw them in prison, and do whatever.

 

EVIL. EVIL TO THE CORE.

[injurai]

 

 

 

If Clinton won, with the exception of who is on the Supreme Court, nothing would be different. There would still be scandal and dysfunction and talk of impeachment. The ACA would still be the law of the land, The people in Syria and elsewhere would still be killing each other by the hundreds*. North Korea would still be doing it's thing and Russia and China theirs and we would still be doing ours.

 

It really is astonishing that so many people emotionally invested so much in the outcome of one election that families and friendships broke over it. And yet the choice really was of such little consequence after all is said and done.

 

*sponsored killing brought to you by the biggest arms dealers in the world.

 

I guess the biggest difference is how openly the corruption, self interest and wanton disregard for civil rights is being conducted - but then Trump just a ordinary businessman - he doesn't have the network to do it more covertly like the Clintons or Bushs.

 

 

Sometimes it seems that the only real loss was the liberals push to change social language, but given how zero-tolerance they were about progress it's not surprising that backfired.

 

Either way, we are in for a hell of a term.

 

 

That was a small, if very vocal, minority of liberals.

 

Of course though, if Clinton got elected, all of the problems that the Dems have now, such as lack of messaging which got exposed with Trump getting elected and the falling way below of what they expected, would fester for another four years and might end up worse off than they are now. This poll shows pretty clearly the messaging hole that they are in.

 

 

Yeah, to some extent. But that vocal minority has a lions share of media sway.

 

What's that theory called, accelerationism? Where by which you want to fail fast to recover fast. I'm not sure I've ever seen that work out to be true outside of scenarios where recovery is 100% guaranteed and effective. It's a theory that only really holds ground in the engineering world. Otherwise failing fast is a bad method. Regardless the Dems have a lot of lessons to be gleaned by their loss and I fear they will learn none. Because they largely cling to the belief that they lost a slim margins game due to racists. Which may not be entirely false, but them dwelling on that and sticking candles in their ears at the rest of liberalism's criticisms is only going to make their woes fester.

 

Blue Mid Term? HAH! I have my doubts. Last mid term I was the only person I knew who voted out of my ENTIRE extended social group.

Edited July 23, 2017 by injurai

[BruceVC]

Nah. It is both of them and 99% of Ameirkans and 99% of the entire world.

 

Amerika was  supposed to be a symbol of freedom but the vast majority of people have NEVER believed in freedom. WW2 was NOt about fighting for 'freedom'. It was about beating up the 'bad guys'.

 

You want proof of  the fact that people don't believe in true freedom? Look at people's reactions - no matter the issue -  at people they disagree with them> It is all ban this ban that, censor this censor that, throw them in prison, and do whatever.

 

EVIL. EVIL TO THE CORE.

volo the USA is a free society. It  has free speech, free media and freedom to vote for who you want amongst other things common in almost all Western societies

 

 

You still haven't defined what "true freedom " is  so its impossible to really continue this type of debate with you 

[Volourn]

"volo the USA is a free society. It  has free speech, free media and freedom to vote for who you want amongst other things common in almost all Western societies"

 

L0L It is 'freer'. Not free. Any society that steals your money simply b/c you do something other dislike when you aren't hurting anyone else is not truly free. Being freer than another country doesn't change that. that goes for all western countries.

[BruceVC]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions-idUSKBN1A70L0

 

Now this is an interesting story, Democrat and Republican lawmakers working together to ensure Trump cant limit sanctions against Russia 

Edited July 23, 2017 by BruceVC

[Rosbjerg]

Closed due to length. New thread here.