Party for upscaled PotD

[MaxQuest]

Why no Yell or Threatening Presense?

No Threatening Presense - because many enemies are immune to frightening which makes it quite situational, plus, as Boeroer mentioned, there are other members and items that allow you to frighten without losing an ability slot.

 

Similar stuff with Threatening Presense. Also, weakening from Painful Interdiction will suppress it.

[r2d23]

Thanks, guys. Will give this a go, maybe even post some feedback later on if I get far enough with this run.

[r2d23]

Is there any point in Greater Frenzy? Also, should I pick Barbaric Blow early on? Judging on some initial combat, the char would benefit more from Stalwart Defiance or Veteran's Recovery. The barbarian only has accurate carnage right now at level 2.

 

Also, what's the point in Envenomed Strike? It carries over with Carnage and/or Heart of Fury?

Edited May 8, 2017 by r2d23

[Boeroer]

Envenomed Strike: nope, only single target.

 

Barbaric Blow is only good with dual wielding (or with special bashing shields). And it's good if you already have decent accuracy and crit more often. I like it with annihilating weapons like Resolution, Purgatory or Shatterstar and with the Merciless Hand talent (Doemenel).

So I would take it later. Savage Defiance will be very good in the early game. It's a strong heal over time at that point, it doesn't need much time to activate and also has no recovery (instant).

[r2d23]

What weapons are good for a rogue? Sabres as well? Or maybe it would be better to leave sabres to the rogue and equip barbarian with things that deal CC effects on hit (spears, hammers, etc.)?

[Boeroer]

For HoF you want dual weapons which do as much damage per hit as possible. So light weapons are out. Sabres are good, axes are good because of annihilating, warhammers are also good because they have two damage types, spears are good because of stunning Cladhaliath and so on...

For barb's auto-attacks two handers are also nice. Hours of St. Rumbalt or Tall Grass + Blood Thirst can be a lot of fun. Both are soldier weapons, so you could equip dual hammers just for HoF and switch to Rumbalt or Tall Grass for the rest. Tall Grass has the advantage that you can place the center of carnage more precisely so that you hit as many foes as possible. This also works for HoF. You won't do two HoF-strikes but you will reach more enemies with it most of the time.

 

If your rogue will use a lot of those "strike" abilities (Full Attacks) then go dual wielding or use a bashing shield (when doing Full Attacks, the shield strikes first, delivering the affliction, then comes the main weapon). If you like auto attacks more then I would use a two hander. Tidefall's damage with a high MIG/low INT rogue is very impressive. You can dump your INT to 3 and then wear the Ultimate Hat of Alluring Perfection (Yurdan, Stalwart) in order to reduce INT to 1. Also get Runner's Wounding Shot. You would have to cause afflictions with your other guys though. It's fun.

Dual wielding rogue with sabres is also nice of course.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Boeroer

[r2d23]

I like the idea of WF: Soldier on Barbarian. It's very fitting thematically, has lots of good item options (hammers, swords, pikes) and coincides with the original idea of the barbarian being crowd controller. The rogue definitely needs high damaging weapons, I plan to use lots of single target attacks with him.

 

What's the difference between Blood thirst and Bloodlust, exactly? Why the need for two similar abilities?

[Boeroer]

Bloodlust triggers once you killed 2 enemies. At the moment it seems to carry the "kill counter" over to other fights: sometimes I kill only one enemy and it already triggers. However, it speeds you up by 20% for a few seconds, but more importantly: it stacks with everyting, including Frenzy. Since you will nealry always kill at least 2 enemies with HoF, this will triggeer right after HoF and speed you up for those enemies who are left.

 

Blood Thirst will give you 0 recovery after a kill. This means that no matter how slow you are, your next attack will follow immediately. You can use this to concentrate on damage per hit rather than damage per second - for example with an estoc and makex DR bypass with Vulnerable Attack and so on - and then speed things up with kills, circumventing your sluggishness. You can see how St. Ydwen's Redeemer + Blood Thirst on a barb makes most fights against vessels a joke. With every strike you will most likely trigger the destruction of a vessel, you next strike will come immediately because of Blood Thirst... and so on. Blood Thirst also gets triggerd by retaliation, spells and scrolls and so on. 

It is obvious that Blood Thirst looses its appeal if you are already very fast and near 0 recovery. As long as this is not the case, it's cool and also works well with Bloodlust.

This also means that after HoF you can immediately follow up with the next attack (I like Barbaric Blow for this).

 

Good items that substitute this on-kill-approach are the Executioner's Hood or the Tempered Helm. Mourning Gloves' on-kill-speed enchantment doesn't stack with Frenzy, but with Bloodlust.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

Is there any point in Greater Frenzy? Also, should I pick Barbaric Blow early on? Judging on some initial combat, the char would benefit more from Stalwart Defiance or Veteran's Recovery. The barbarian only has accurate carnage right now at level 2.

 

Also, what's the point in Envenomed Strike? It carries over with Carnage and/or Heart of Fury?

Greater Frenzy - I would say it's optional. Sure +2MIG/CON is not bad, but there is opportunity cost. Thus I would consider taking it only after picking all the "must-have" & "good" stuff.

 

Barbaric Blow - very early on, you have other priorities. For example Savage Defiance will greatly help with your survivability. But already on lvl 7+ Barbaric Blow (with dual-sabres) was usually killing barb's main target plus bringing all enemies in carnage range to half endurance, quite speeding-up trash fights.

 

Envenomed Strike - it scales with both MIG and INT, and barb has both of them at high values. It's a great source of damage vs single-targets with high endurance. Although you only need 1, maximum 2 team-members with it, because it doesn't stack. In your case that could be: barb, wizard or priest.

 

What weapons are good for a rogue? Sabres as well?

You have the rogue+ciphers combo. This means:

- ciphers will protect rogue via hard-cc'ing those who try to attack him

- ciphers will help stun/paralyze rogue's target, which lowers targets deflection, and thus rogue will crit a lot

- rogue will often sneak-attack/deathblow

- rogue has many full-attack abilities, which favores dual-wielding

 

Thus the following options come to mind:

- Rimecutter + WeToki. Prone will help with deathblows. While speed on main hand is good for full-attacks, because recovery of off-hand is wavered. Plus both have +0.5 dmg coef on crit, and you will crit very, very often.

- Rimecutter + Barricade. Barricade has a great proc, whose damage is increased by deathblows.

- The usual dual-sabres (Purgatories or Bittercuts)

- Also you can try dual Drawn-in-Spring. But this will require you to amp your MIG, because of the way wounding works.

[r2d23]

Thanks for the explanation, Boeroer. Does it make sense to take both abilities or just one depending on the build?

 

 

 

Envenomed Strike - it scales with both MIG and INT, and barb has both of them at high values. It's a great source of damage vs single-targets with high endurance. Although you only need 1, maximum 2 team-members with it, because it doesn't stack. In your case that could be: barb, wizard or priest.

 

Why wizard or priest if the ability affect only one target? I thought the rogue would be a better candidate since he only deals single target damage.

 

 

 

- Rimecutter + Barricade. Barricade has a great proc, whose damage is increased by deathblows.

That's a shield, right?

 

So far, the sabres seem more attractive to me. Should I consider taking another weapon focus for an alternative weapon set when sabres aren't applicable? I drafted a level progression table for the character and it seems I might have a free talent for another weapon focus.

[Boeroer]

It depends. As long as you don't hit 0 recovery with your weapon attacks you can take both and will be happy. After White Forge and all you might want to retrain and remove Blood Thirst. If you want to use Two Handers I would stick to it till the end.

 

A rogue with high deflection (via shield, and Weapon & shield Style as well as Escape and so on) and Badgradr's Barricade is actually very nice. You don#t have to babysit him because he's sturdy enough and once you get Deathblows the Barricade's proc will be deadly as hell. It's also the only setup I would recommend Riposte for. If you add Fast Runner, Graceful Retreat and a Cape of Withdrawal or Nightrunner Armor or Echoing Misery boots (+32 defense against disengagement attacks) you can run around freely and provoke attacks that most likely will graze or miss, resulting in some Full Attack Ripostes. It's a good build and not as boring* as the usual dual sabre rogue. It trades offense for defense but is still very potent - especially if you use a lot of those strike abilities (= Full Attacks). You can also add a retaliation item and use Deep Wounds (works through retaliation).

 

*not boring in itself, just because every rogue seems to use dual sabres.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Boeroer

[r2d23]

Thanks for the ideas, Boeroer. I'll probably go with the more classic approach this time. I am not that experienced with the rogue class to explore such extravagant builds. Plus, I really enjoy the micromanagement, it's part of my personal play style

Edited May 8, 2017 by r2d23

[MaxQuest]

Why wizard or priest if the ability affect only one target? I thought the rogue would be a better candidate since he only deals single target damage.

It doesn't matter) because iirc Deahtblows do not increase damage dealt by Envenomed Strike, so it all comes to MIG, INT plus effective accuracy. And rogue is quite unlikely to bump both of the first two. Edited May 10, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Check out a priest with Minor Avatar + Aggrandizing Radiance, using Envenomed Strike on a boss!

[MaxQuest]

That's around 150 raw damage over 18s. And one can also cast Cleansing Flames to double the tick rate.

 

P.S. Another great source of raw damage is Disintegration: 240 raw over 15s (base values), or if cast by cipher with 22 MIG & 29 INT:

636 raw dmg over 29.2s, on hit

954 raw dmg over 43.5s, on crit

And it also can be boosted by Cleansing Flames.

Edited May 10, 2017 by MaxQuest

[r2d23]

Understood about the rogue, I guess I'll spend that talent point elsewhere.

 

So, Cleansing Flames sounds to be kind of broken. I'm reading it's description right now. Could you clarify what does "-5 Duration of active beneficial effects for 5.0 sec" and "+100 Damage Over Time tick rate for 5.0 sec" mean, exactly? It's kind of convoluted.

 

How does it translate into doubling the tick rate? What does tick rate mean here, anyway? 150 raw damage over 18s becomes 150 raw damage over 9s? Or it becomes 300 raw damage over 18s?

Edited May 10, 2017 by r2d23

[MaxQuest]

So, Cleansing Flames sounds to be kind of broken. I'm reading it's description right now. Could you clarify what does "-5 Duration of active beneficial effects for 5.0 sec" and "+100 Damage Over Time tick rate for 5.0 sec" mean, exactly? It's kind of convoluted.

There is more 'broken' stuff in the game

 

What the spell does is:

- affects the enemy with a single-target DoT, that deals 80 burning damage over 5s (base values)

- reduces the duration of beneficial buffs on the target by 5s. For example enemy uses Disciplined Barrage. It's duration will be 10s instead of 15s. Or if the enemy is affected by Herald aura (which iirc has 5s duration and ticks every 3s, right?) - he won't get any benefit from it at all.

- doubles the tick rate of all DoTs on the target, for it's duration.

 

How does it translate into doubling the tick rate? What does tick rate mean here, anyway? 150 raw damage over 18s becomes 150 raw damage over 9s? Or it becomes 300 raw damage over 18s?

Closer to the latter. When a DoT ticks on a target affected by Cleansing Flames, there will be two ticks instead of one.

Take note through that CF has base duration of 5s. So at 10 MIG / 10 INT:

- No CF + 150 raw damage over 15s DoT; results in 7 ticks of 21.42 dmg

- CF + 150 raw damage over 15s DoT; results in 9 ticks of 21.42 dmg, i.e. 192.8 dmg over 15s; unless you recast CF on that target, or it jumps back.

 

The true beauty of CF is through: casting 4 Shining Beacons (which all stack), and then follow with CF, which basically means that target suffers from 8 instances of Shinning Beacon at the same time. And a buffed priest deals ~250 fire damage via single Beacon alone. You can see how Alpine Dragon goes from barely injured to dead in 10s: link.

Edited May 11, 2017 by MaxQuest

[r2d23]

Thanks. I think I've got it all except for this one:

 

 

 

- CF + 150 raw damage over 15s DoT; results in 9 ticks of 21.42 dmg, i.e. 192.8 dmg over 15s; unless you recast CF on that target, or it jumps back.

Why does 7 ticks translate into 9 ticks? What's the math here?

[Boeroer]

Cleansing Flame's duration is too short to double all the ticks.

[MaxQuest]

Why does 7 ticks translate into 9 ticks? What's the math here?

As Boeroer said, it's because CF duration is lower than that of the DoT you have mentioned. 

 

Interval between two consecutive ticks is 3s.

Interval between a tick and the one after next one is 6s.

This means that 5s-long CF will always double at least one tick, and in 66% of cases it will double one more. Hence 7 => 9. 

Not a lot, but the good thing is that a priest usually has high INT, plus Minor Avatar, which can easily result in 10s long CF on hit, or 15s on crit.

Edited May 11, 2017 by MaxQuest

[r2d23]

Indeed, I forgot that CF itself has a duration, now it all makes sense, thank you.

[r2d23]

I'm going to resurrect this old thread of mine.

 

I'm looking to do a TC play-through on upscaled PotD. Party members will be all standard NPCs. Most probably I'll have Eder (DW DPS), Pallegina (alpha strike + Sacred Immolation later on), Aloth, Durance, Hiravias or Kana (tanking + AoE DPS).

 

I'm looking at paladin for the role of the main character. Ideally I want him to have a good mixture of party buffs and offense. Is this too much to expect from? The extreme routes are obvious:

 

1) Darcozzi high con/might/int tank with focus on supportive paladin abilities and, perhaps, later on sacred immolation. Maybe even without it because Pallegina will be specced for fire-based stuff.

2) Bleak Walker alpha strike version built full-out for FoD damage (lashes, offensive abilities, talents that increase elemental damage, etc.)

 

Is it possible to have a paladin who can buff the party, be reasonably sturdy (i.e. high CON), pack some punch with FoD and do steady auto-attack damage? Or at least three of these four?

 

I've tried to read up on the subject yesterday, and oh dear there's so much stuff written on the forums, it's like studying for a dissertation. Two hours suddenly passed by and I am more confused than clear.

[Boeroer]

This one has good support, great single target CC via mind control items (can crit-charm dragons) and deals decent damage with FoD arquebus alpha strikes and then does ACC marking (+20 stackable ACC for a single ally) + Outworn Bucker passive support while tanking a bit. 

 

He's a Shieldbearer, but you can also play him equally well as Darcozzi (and push the single ACC buff even further to stackable +30 for a single ally via Inspirating Liberation) or Kind Wayfarer (heals via FoD and kills).

 

Bleak Walker and Goldpact don't fit that well with this.

 

He good quite good feedback so far. I guess because he's kind of a Jack of all Trades without sucking at everything but does everything he's supposed to do quite effectively.
I think he's a good addition to a TC run because the mind control with very high ACC helps a lot in difficult fights. If you want him to be more sturdy then just shift some points from INT/MIG/RES towards CON. 

 

He doesn't pack a punch with auto-attacks though. But I consider the Outworn Buckler to be a lot more useful than that. Its defensive buff stacks with everything, even with the same aura that Little Savior also has. If you duplicate that one you can have three of those herald-shields and get permanent +15 to all defenses for the whole party - fully stackable.

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Boeroer

[r2d23]

Yes, I've read this build, it looks quite nice. I am a bit worried about his low CON though. Could be tough dealing with upscaled content without having high fortitude.

 

Does it make sense to have two paladins with accuracy buffs (coordinated attacks, marking weapons, flanking)? If I have two paladins working along with a teammate on a single enemy each would both teammates get accuracy bonuses? E.g., the protagonist supporting Eder and Pallegina improving accuracy of Durance or Aloth for spellcasting or melee attacks (in latter case).

[JerekKruger]

Well as a main character Paladin with Deep Faith he's not going to have bad Fortitude. I think he'll have 98 unbuffed and without gear at level 16.