One-Handed vs Two-Handed vs Two Weapon Styles

[JiggleFloyd]

One-Handed converts 15% of hits to crits.

Two-Handed adds 15% of damage.

Two-Weapon style increases attack speed by 20%.

 

One-Handed Scenario: Basic weapon and example

 

Before Talent 

10% Miss = 0 damage

20% Graze = 20 damage

50% Hit = 40 damage

20% Crit = 80 damage

Average damage per attack = 40 [(.1*0)+(.2*20)+(.5*40)+(.2*80)]

 

After Talent

10% Miss = 0 damage

20% Graze = 20 damage

35% Hit = 40 damage

35% Crit = 80 damage

Average damage per attack = 46 [(.1*0)+(.2*20)+(.35*40)+(.35*80)]

 

In this example the one-handed style talent amounts to an average increase of 6 damage, which is 15% of 40. If you are less accurate this may go up to 17% or so, and if you are more accurate, it will down to 13% or so. 

 

So it seems that this recent change is definitely makes one-handed competitive with the two-handed and two weapon styles, especially if you use a weapon that has a stronger crit modifier. 

 

So does anyone have any ideas on what weapons and situations will make the one-handed build shine? Does anyone know if this 15% one-handed style hit to crit stacks with other sources such as:

• Hearth Orlan 10%
• Durgan Steel 20%
• Potion of Merciless Gaze 15%

If so, one could get 60% hit to crit fairly easy later in the game, making a battle axe do crazy damage. A battle axe w/ Durgan Steel would have a +80% crit damage multiplier. I just wonder though if this would be better than dual-wielding or a two-handed weapon.

Edited October 25, 2016 by JiggleFloyd

[Boeroer]

Did you take into account that using only one hand automatically gives you +12 ACC without any talent? This shifts dps, too.

And that dual wielding automatically gives you a 50% attack speed bonus without any talent? Also a huge advantage when we talk about dps.

 

When talking about crits with weapons like battle axes I wouldn't say "crazy" damage. In PoE a crit only adds 50% of the weapon base damage. For example: a sword has an average base damage of 13.5 - so a crit would only add 6.75 damage to an attack. A battle axe automatically has annihilating and adds +100% base damage, wich is 13.5 on crit then.

 

Your example is right if you have 10 might and no other dmg mods and use a plain unenchanted weapon. The more dmg mods you add the less impact a crit has (percentage wise). That is in terms of damage. So, I don't think it's too powerful when we only talk about weapons' base damage. I therefore don't think annihilating on battle axes is especially powerful. However, crits become really interesting when durations or spell strikings are involved. A crit with Knockdown for example leads to a 1.5*duration - with decent INT that is a lot. Spell Strkings like Jolting Touch or Thrust of Tattered Veils are also very interesting because their base damage is much higher than normal weapon's base damage. A crit with Jolting Touch or another spell striking can be devastating. 

 

Same thing with certain abilites: some of them don't use the weapon's damage but have their own base damage - for example Charge (fighter) or the cone of Torment's Reach. This seems bad at first but it's really good, because the base damage of those is much higher than any weapon's base damage. Meaning crits with those add a lot more damage then with autoattacks (in flat numbers).

Another example are chanter's phrases. Some of them profit from one handeld wielding - don't ask me why.

 

If those abilites profit from one handed wielding & -style then things get interesting I'd say. 

 

Another thing are weapon cc enchantments like stunning and overbearing (prone on crit). Here One Handed Style is totally worth it. You can easily chain-prone any dragon if you pile up enough ACC and hit-to-crit conversion.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Boeroer

[JiggleFloyd]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I was unaware of the +12 accuracy and 50% attack speed stand alone bonuses. Soooo I assume that dual-wield and two weapon style attack speed bonuses help when you're casting spells, right? I assume that wielding a one-handed weapon and getting the one-handed style help with the accuracy of your spells, right? If so, I've been a sap for using the standard rods, scepters, quarterstaffs, wands, etc, on my casters.

 

So you're saying hit to crit properties stack so long as they are from different sources (weapon style, potion, weapon, Orlan, item)?

 

There is an axe that has the devastating property on it. I was thinking of using that. I will also keep my eye out for single handed weapons with crit effects that are not limited. I see a lot but they are limited to one or two per encounter, which doesn't help too much.

[Ben No.3]

a weapon bonus is calculated for a weapon attack. Spells have their own inherent boni, most spells it's a +10 acc. Stat boni and "general" boni also count for everything. Look out for on hit/crit, those are usually not per encounter

Edited October 25, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Boeroer]

One handed wielding's ACC bonus and dual wielding speed bonus don't apply to spells. But shields' ACC malus does.

 

But there are some abilities where one handed wielding's bonuses do apply. Like The Dragon Thrashed phrase, Charge and so on.

 

I don't know if there's any rule which abilities do profit and which don't. You'd have to try them out with one handed wielding in order to find out I'm afraid.

[AndreaColombo]

I think (but don't quote me on this) that the bonus from One Handed Style also applies when you're going weapon + shield, which makes it a good choice for tanks with non-pumped PER and/or in a priest-less party.

Edited October 25, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[Boeroer]

Nope, they changed that with the latest patch. Sorry Andrea!

[Raven Darkholme]

I think (but don't quote me on this) that the bonus from One Handed Style also applies when you're going weapon + shield, which makes it a good choice for tanks with non-pumped PER and/or in a priest-less party.

Didn't that get fixed?

[AndreaColombo]

Nope, they changed that with the latest patch. Sorry Andrea!

 

Pity. It's not very interesting without that caveat.

[JerekKruger]

Yeah that was a shame. I mean, technically you are only wielding a single one-handed weapon so it doesn't seem unreasonable to allow it to stack with weapon and shield style, and if anyone complains that it's more powerful than dual wielding style or two-handed style I'd point out that it also costs twice as many talent points. Still, I guess Obsidian wanted it to be strictly one single handed weapon and nothing else so fair enough.

[JiggleFloyd]

Yeah that was a shame. I mean, technically you are only wielding a single one-handed weapon so it doesn't seem unreasonable to allow it to stack with weapon and shield style, and if anyone complains that it's more powerful than dual wielding style or two-handed style I'd point out that it also costs twice as many talent points. Still, I guess Obsidian wanted it to be strictly one single handed weapon and nothing else so fair enough.

Realistically speaking most shields do hinder your offensive ability with your weapon main weapon. The shield could be used as a weapon to a degree though. I like how they implemented the system and gave reduced accuracy for larger shields. I also like the bash ability on some shields. The one-handed style also carries over from the Baldur's gate series. In those games it allowed a crit on a 19 or 20, so basically a 5% increase in crit chance.

 

I think I'm going to try a one-handed style with a rogue. Seems to make sense with that class.

[JiggleFloyd]

One handed wielding's ACC bonus and dual wielding speed bonus don't apply to spells. But shields' ACC malus does.

 

But there are some abilities where one handed wielding's bonuses do apply. Like The Dragon Thrashed phrase, Charge and so on.

 

I don't know if there's any rule which abilities do profit and which don't. You'd have to try them out with one handed wielding in order to find out I'm afraid.

 

OK thanks for explaining. I don't feel like a sap now

 

I really like that soul weapon scepter that gives +21 accuracy on my offensive caster. It seems that still makes good sense to do.

[Boeroer]

Yes - but that thing is two handed. Besides that it's a great piece of equipment.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Boeroer

[JerekKruger]

Realistically speaking most shields do hinder your offensive ability with your weapon main weapon.

 

I disagree. Your ability to attack effectively is heavily influenced by your ability to defend. In this video (stuff on shields starts around 4:30 but the whole video is well worth a watch) Roland Warzecha explains his theory on how shields were used in Viking era hand-to-hand combat (specifically more skirmish/duel fighting than formation fighting, which fits something like PoE better) and how important they are. If you know how to use a shield of that sort of size (PoE medium shield) properly, then your offensive ability isn't going to be hindered. If anything, I'd say realistically your offensive ability will be improved when using a small or medium shield.

 

I also like the bash ability on some shields.

 

 

It's a shame that, apart from Dragon's Maw and Badgradr's Barricade, using a bashing shield will generally reduce rather than improve a characters damage output when compared to using a non-bashing shield.

[JiggleFloyd]

 

Realistically speaking most shields do hinder your offensive ability with your weapon main weapon.

 

I disagree. Your ability to attack effectively is heavily influenced by your ability to defend. In this video (stuff on shields starts around 4:30 but the whole video is well worth a watch) Roland Warzecha explains his theory on how shields were used in Viking era hand-to-hand combat (specifically more skirmish/duel fighting than formation fighting, which fits something like PoE better) and how important they are. If you know how to use a shield of that sort of size (PoE medium shield) properly, then your offensive ability isn't going to be hindered. If anything, I'd say realistically your offensive ability will be improved when using a small or medium shield.

 

I also like the bash ability on some shields.

 

 

It's a shame that, apart from Dragon's Maw and Badgradr's Barricade, using a bashing shield will generally reduce rather than improve a characters damage output when compared to using a non-bashing shield.

 

Why is that? Does the bash take the place of a regular attack from your weapon? Does it not increase the attack speed at all?

[Boeroer]

That's right. Bash doesn't give you +50% speed bonus like a second weapon in the offhand would give you. So your hits will alternate between weapon - bash - weapon - bash with the normal attack speed. Although bash has a short recovery phase, it still means that it takes away dps from your autoattacking because bash's damage is very low. 

[JerekKruger]

It's a shame, it would be nice if even a Bash 1 shield increased a character's DPS a little. It's also something of a new player trap. I certainly equipped the Larder Door on Eder in my first play through thinking that it would increase his damage output.

Edited October 29, 2016 by JerekKruger

[Boeroer]

Or if bash would cause daze on crit or something like that, maybe even prone... everybody would use it.
 

[MrMoe]

do weapon styles  (which?)  influence ranged weapons, especially arquebus, pistol and blunderbuss?

[MrMoe]

do weapon styles  (which?)  influence ranged weapons, especially arquebus, pistol and blunderbuss?

 

I searched a bit with google and it seems they do count and compared with PoE1, range weapons should have a tag for 1 handed or 2 handed now, though I don't see it in the weapon description 

 

 

[draego]

 

do weapon styles  (which?)  influence ranged weapons, especially arquebus, pistol and blunderbuss?

 

I searched a bit with google and it seems they do count and compared with PoE1, range weapons should have a tag for 1 handed or 2 handed now, though I don't see it in the weapon description 

 

Wrong Forum this is the POE 1 forum