Melee Wizard: stats and talents

[Sciarra Colonna]

Ok, as Boeroer suggest me i replay my post here. Thanks Dude.

 

How normal, before all, sorry for my english, isn't my native language.

 

I'm playing as a melee wizard with a Tidefall greatsword. Before it i use great Parasitic Staff but now i use only Tidefall.

 

My problem is about stats because for me all are necessary and i can't understand what i have to increse. I don't like decrease stats to min so, normally, i keep them to 10. 

For now i'm playing hard, with a lv 8 party, and an human, living lands, mage:

 

Mig 17

Con 10 

Dex 10

Per 16

Int 16

Res 10

 

Talents are:

arcane veil

savage attack

2h style

excellent deflession

 

I don't know if is right or not, this is only last reroll, i'm becoming a serial reroller...  Dex how is necessary for a 2h mage? And resolve? Intellect is so necessary or i can decrease it to 14-15???

 

Pls help me to understand how optimize my stats

 

 

[AeonsLegend]

I'm not entirely sure if a melee wizard is a good idea. They have some self buffs that allow them to withstand some damage, but their stats are so low that they will get popped on the front line very quickly. Plus the spells are limited use so resting is probably a frequent occurrence. Wizards also don't get their own special melee attacks or passive damage buffs. Also I don't see how 10 resolve is useful. You're probably want to lower that to put it elsewhere. If you want to increase durability you'd want to pick Constitution anyway because your deflection will be low anyway. Their base is 10 and max level (16) will be 58. Having 58 or 54 at the end of the game will make no difference. Superior deflection talent is probably wasted as well.

[Raven Darkholme]

Is there a particular reason you want to change your stats? They look fine to me if you absolutely don't want to go below 10.

 

I'm not entirely sure if a melee wizard is a good idea. They have some self buffs that allow them to withstand some damage, but their stats are so low that they will get popped on the front line very quickly. Plus the spells are limited use so resting is probably a frequent occurrence. Wizards also don't get their own special melee attacks or passive damage buffs. Also I don't see how 10 resolve is useful. You're probably want to lower that to put it elsewhere. If you want to increase durability you'd want to pick Constitution anyway because your deflection will be low anyway. Their base is 10 and max level (16) will be 58. Having 58 or 54 at the end of the game will make no difference. Superior deflection talent is probably wasted as well.

Melee wizards are very good they have buffs other classes dream off.

[Boeroer]

Your stats are good. Your defenses through stats are perfectly balanced.

Wounding damage like Tidefall's gets better with high might. So - items with bonuses to might + Alacrity + Martial Power is a good combo. Because of Alacrity 10 DEX is enough, too. You can wear plate, too - especially in the early game. It helps a bit with the lower endurance. Combine it with Spirit Shield and Iron Skin.

 

And of course melee wizards - even tanks - are awesome. Wizard's self buffs are very powerful and all the summoned weapons are really good. Superior Deflection is never wasted if you plan to go into melee fights. With high MIG and INT Veteran's Recovery is also a good pick. The lower starting values of the wizard class don't matter after some levels, and you'll have plenty of spells after a few level-ups.

 

Arcane Veil is nice, even Hardened Veil. If you combine Arc. Veil and Wizard's Double (+115 deflection) it's like a "don't hit me" mode. Later on there will also be spells like Rymrgand's and stuff which will use the wizard as centre - those are perfect for melee wizards.

I also want to point you to the nice effect of Combusting Wounds + retaliation. You can stack some kinds of retaliation with a wizard, like normal retaliation from an item, Flame Shield and Minoletta's Piercing Sigil. When you use Combusting Wounds on enemies around you, each time you get hit they get hit three times, triggering combusting wounds three times.

Another great spell for melee wizards is Concelhaut's Siphon.

 

RES 10 is enough. You have Spirit Shield which boosts concentration and enough buffs for deflection. MIG, INT and PER are the most important stats for you, and you have raised those - stop retraining now!

 

P.s.: Try Citzal's Spirit lance!

Edited October 19, 2016 by Boeroer

[AeonsLegend]

I've never played a melee wizard, but it seems the spells are a necessity. Isn't their limited use kind of annoying and doesn't it take time to set up (casting spells at start of battle)?

 

I guess because of their lack of class specific talents means that you can take superior deflection as well. But honestly with all the buffs and base stats at higher level those 5 extra points won't mean much.

 

As for resolve, it feels like they are better spent on intelligence so your buffs last longer. But that's just me. I'm nitpicking though, the setup looks fine and I've used similar builds.

[Boeroer]

Yes, the buffing needs time. It can be annoying in trash mob fights - if you normally don't use a lot of buffs like with priests of so, it can be a bit tedious. Good thing is that most of the wizard's buffs are fast casts or even instant casts like Arcane Veil. Even faster if you cast Alacrity first.

 

The spells are a necessity until you outlevel enemies. After you get some spell mastery uses it all gets easier of course. Less resting and so on.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Boeroer

[Sciarra Colonna]

Well, thanks all for answering me! I m using tidefall because summon weapons can't be enchanted with elemental damage. I've enchanted tidefall with corrosion and i'll take corrosion talent in future to increase my spell and weapons damage. For trash mons i don't use any buff just run and mass charge just "per fight abilities". I have 60 deflection without buff and 17 of dr. Over lv 6 wizard have enough spell to play well avoiding rest every fight, more i have that ring that increase +2 first level / +1 third level spell. But, however, i m at end of second act and i have just bought expansion so i m really at early game i have to see hard fights to know well if my build is Good. In every case thanks all for kind help

[Boeroer]

Trust me: Citzal's Spirit Lance needs no enchantment.

 

If you take Spirit of Decay I would stronlgy recommed using Bittercut + corrosive lash instead of Tidefall. Bittercut is a sabre in WM I (early find) and causes corrode damage. This corrosive weapon damage also gets boosted by Spirit of Decay, not only the corrosive lash. You can even dual wield it once you get the Helwax Mold via Strongold adventure - which lets you clone any item except soulbounds. With Alacrity and Two Weapon Style a wizard can reach 0 recovery in plate armor pretty easily. Or you just take a shield and become even more sturdy.

 

Another really nice weapon for a melee wizard is Spelltogue (WM I, a bit later than Bittercut). Its hits steal 15% attack speed as well as durations from enemies' buffs and put them onto your own buffs - prolonging them. 

Edited October 20, 2016 by Boeroer

[AeonsLegend]

Quick calculation. 60 deflection. Wizard base 10 + 5 Superior Deflection + 9 Ring of Deflection = 24 - 60 = 36 /3 = 12. This means you're level 12?

[Boeroer]

That's likely - he said he just finished Act II. The first time he posted he was lvl 8.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Boeroer

[Sciarra Colonna]

21 for level, 1 for resolve, 5 for talent, 5 for cloak, 9 for ring, 5 for Palegina paladin shield = 56 deflection

 

Thanks Boeroer i'll try to find that sabre!

[AeonsLegend]

21 for level, 1 for resolve, 5 for talent, 5 for cloak, 9 for ring, 5 for Palegina paladin shield = 56 deflection

 

Thanks Boeroer i'll try to find that sabre!

 

Hm, cloak and ring don't stack though.

 

My favorite early game sabre is Resolution. Dropped by Greater Black Ooze, Endless Paths of Od Nua Level 4. Very doable if you rush it early and ignore most of the enemies in those levels. Later Purgatory found in Blood Sands because it heals you. Both have +50% damage on crits which is massive.

[Boeroer]

Depends what cloak. If it has +5 to all defenses like Cloak of Comfort (stronghold adventure) it stacks with the ring of deflection. If it's a cloak of minor deflection with +5 to deflection it doesn't stack.

 

Annihilation gives you +50% weapon base damage (= the damage a generic sabre has without any modifier) when you do a critical hit. A crit with annihilation adds 100% of base weapon damage instead of 50% - like deathblows would. A weapon with 10 base damage would get +10 damage on a crit in that case instead of 5.  I wouldn't say that it's massive, but it surely is a good enchantment - especially on sabres with their high base damage (will get nerfed in 3.04 into a mere +20% dmg bonus) and also for characters who can expect to crit a lot. A melee wizard with Eldritch Aim + Merciless Gaze + Martial Power can be such a character. Those sabres are nice unique weapons and the fact that you can get Resolution that early is another plus, I agree. They would work very well on a melee wizard. But I think TIdefall is equally good because of wounding. Wounding is the best dps enchantment in the game because of the way it gets calculated. It not only profits from MIG but also does raw damage. And it gets calculated based on the whole damage you do when you hit - not only weapon base dmage. It's basically like a raw DoT lash. You get way more damage per hit and buy that with slower attacks compared to dual wielding. By the way the best one handed dps weapon is still Drawn in Spring because of Wounding - if you have enough MIG. So - if you want, you can stick to Tidefall. Besides its great enchantments it has two damage types, which is great, too. It's one of the best weapons in he game.

 

Bittercut is better than Resolution and also Purgatory in my opinion. It gets +20% damage with Spirit of Decay (which is kind of nice and somewhat balances out the Annihilation of Resolution & Purgatory, although you need to pick a talent for that) - but the real advantage is: it's the only sabre which has two damage types (corrode and slash). Many enemies in the game are resistent to slash, so you lose a lot of dps when attacking them with a "normal" sabre that only does slash damage. The only enemy you can't hurt with Bittercut are earth blights. For any other enemy you'll never need to change the weapon again when you use Bittercut. Another plus: it has some nice spell bindings. Maggots (get fixed in 3.04 - doesn't do anything atm) and  Vile Thorns. Vile Thorns is 3/rest - and in this case it is an instant cast without recovery - not like the original druid spell. Don't ask me why - I think it's a bug because the description says something else - but it's like that. Wth two Bittercuts you can spam 6 * Vile Thorns in a few seconds if you want to, killing most foes in an arc in front of you. It can make tough encounters really easy. A drawback is the -10 defense to poison attacks! If you duplicate Bittercut you will have -20, which is hefty. So watch out if you meet vessels with poisonous spells and such things! IN this case - you could switch to Resolution & Purgatory.

 

A thing about spell bindings: they work even when you use Martial Power. Normal spalls are deactivated, but spell bindings/chances and spell holdings (and also scrolls) are not!

Edited October 20, 2016 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

Didn't know about that cloak.

Dual bittercut is jsut awesome, my cipher is rocking it and it hurts real bad and the focus gain is massive.

[Boeroer]

Yeah, with a corrosive lash and Spirit of Decay it's one of the best one handed weapons in the game. The dual effect of Spirit of Decay (raising weapon damage itself and also the lash damege which is based on the weapon damage before DR) makes it way better than it first looks on paper. 

[Sciarra Colonna]

Yeah guys you're right: my cloak is Cloak of Comfort so it stacks with my ring.

 

I've found sabre and is really powerful but i don't like dual wielding. But is just aesthetic not for damage or numbers is just for my feel.

 

So i think i'll return back with a 2 handed weapon but i don't know if i'll use Tidefall or Parasitic Staff, i have my first mastery spell

 

You have to know that i'm not only interested on "best or powerful" weapon but i have to be satisfied also for my rpg feel  

Conjured weapons are really fantastic because are powerful weapons and are really fantasy! Spirit lance is terrible, is killing 3 enemies with a shot!

[JerekKruger]

Trust me: Citzal's Spirit Lance needs no enchantment.

 

The only disappointing thing about Citzal's Spirit Lance is the higher level summoned weapons not being even better. That and the fact you can never get it per rest I guess.

 

EDIT: dual Bittercuts is really nice on Devil of Caroc as well, since the -20 poison resist is, you know, somewhat offset by her poison immunity.

Edited October 20, 2016 by JerekKruger

[grausch]

A melee wizard with Eldritch Aim + Merciless Gaze + Martial Power can be such a character.

Just note that Eldritch Aim and Citzal's Martial do not stack. If you wish to engage in melee for a specific encounter casts Martial Power - it gives +20 ACC and has a decent duration. Eldritch aim gives +15 ACC, but probably has half the duration of Martial Power.

 

I was almost finished with the game before I checked my buffed stats and discovered that I did not need to cast Eldritch Aim all the time.

[grausch]

Ok, as Boeroer suggest me i replay my post here. Thanks Dude.

 

How normal, before all, sorry for my english, isn't my native language.

 

I'm playing as a melee wizard with a Tidefall greatsword. Before it i use great Parasitic Staff but now i use only Tidefall.

 

...

Have a look at my melee wizard (The Frozen Lance) for ideas of how to allocate stats, how to optimise buffs and ideas on how to approach engagements. You'll notice my stats are pretty evenly distributed with INT getting the biggest boost. When buffed, you really want those durations to last as long as possible. The only possible exception would be when you wish to start casting, but Martial Power is still active.

 

If you are not dumping stats, then they are not that important. There are a lot of items to boost them and your buffs help to boost them into the stratosphere. I chose DEX and PER, because I wanted Citzal's Spirit Lance to hit and crit more often and I want my spells to crit more often. However, you could decide to focus on MIG to do more single hit damage. I never ran the math, but I don't think a slight modification to stats would make a significant difference. It does not take that long to get the following buffs up: Ironskin, Llengrath's Displaced Image, Flame Shield, Merciless Gaze, Citzal's Spirit Lance, Deleterious Alacrity of Motion and then Citzal's Martial Power. Once these are up, your stats will be pretty damn good and most opponents can be taken on easily.

 

You can read through my build as I give more details there. However, you should note that the order I cast these spells was chosen to maximise their combined durations. DoAM has a shorter duration than Citzal's Martial Power and if you cast that first in your sequence, then you may have 2 or 3 extra seconds where you are not hasted while Martial Power is still in effect. Since I used a shield, once Displaced Image was cast, my deflection was pretty high and I hardly ever got hit and I could go through the entire buffing sequence without issue.

Edited October 20, 2016 by grausch

[Sciarra Colonna]

Hi Graush! Thanks for your comment, i also know your build and i'm thinking to change my 2h weapon to a weapon and shield build. I have seen many Good spells that cast around the wizard like fire ring or venom ring so i have to stay inside the fight! But in which way perception increase my crit chance?

[Raven Darkholme]

Perception = accuraccy.

[grausch]

Hi Graush! Thanks for your comment, i also know your build and i'm thinking to change my 2h weapon to a weapon and shield build. I have seen many Good spells that cast around the wizard like fire ring or venom ring so i have to stay inside the fight! But in which way perception increase my crit chance?

You're welcome. I like the love melee wizard are getting lately   

 

I found I needed both weapon and shield while playing solo. Since you have a party, you have some "shields" that can take damage while you buff. Remember, shield was mostly used just so that I could get my buffs up, then I would cast Spirit Lance (lose the shield here), then DoAM, then Martial Power and engage. Effectively I had two fast cast spells to get through before I was on the offensive and one I engaged, I suffered very little damage.

 

As you suggested, you could cast other spells as well and then still be in the fight - I just found Citzal's so overpowering that nothing else was needed. At level 8, you may need to refer to the buffs I suggested in the Midgame tactics section of my build post. However, you will need to rest more frequently and may decide to omit some spells. Try out different ideas and see what works for you. While my wizard was extremely powerful in melee, my tactics also played a large role - the best buffed wizard can still be taken out if he is arrogant. Just enjoy your wizard, see what works for you and then take it from there. I probably spent over 100k respeccing my wizard, before finally settling on my build.

 

Raven Darkholme is correct regarding PER. Crit damage is +50% (although I believe it just applies to the base roll) and dropping MIG a little did not seem like such a big deal if I could get more crits. I may be mistaken, but I believe the MIG damage bonus is applied as a final multiplier so the two are not directly comparable, but I was quite happy scoring much more damage on spells like Kalakoth's Freezing Rake and paralysing opponents for longer with Ninagauth's Shadowflame. PER also gives you better interrupts which is great when you are attacking as fast as I was. Not sure if my blast from the Spirit Lance interrupted as well, but quite a few enemies never got a chance to attack as they were permanently interrupted.

 

P.S. Would be great if someone can confirm whether my understanding of the crit damage bonus vs MIG damage bonus is correct.

[Dr <3]

You are wrong. Str dmg and crit dmg works both as multiplicator of your base dmg.

Es: with 20 might + a crit you do +30%+50%= +80% dmg. Not +30% x +50% . Works for normal weapons and spells. So very High might is " close " ( 30%-40% vs 50%) to a crit every hit, just for saying.

[Boeroer]

Right. The percentage based mods of the base damage only add up. Crit damage is no difference.

 

But crits also prolong durations.

[grausch]

Dr >3, Boeroer,

 

Thank you for pointing out the correct mechanics of crit damage. I chose PER in order to hit and crit more and MIG was the only attribute I was comfortable dropping. Guess choosing one over the leads to a very small difference in total damage.