Shields and riposte

[Ben No.3]

So what shield would accompany a riposte-rouge best? Options:

-small shield, because there is no accuracy loss... Otherwise no synergy... Don't know if it's worth it

-medium shield, to be more precise scath gwannek. It gives bashing, thus we are dual wielding and loose no attack speed du to shield. The accuracy loss is also quite small, and gwannek also has a winter wind spellbind. I'm very tempted. I would take it, but!...

-large shield: old gerun's wall... -8 acc is big, but the huge deflection bonus and the 10% hit to graze conversion might make it worth it for riposte

 

So... Thoughts? This is part of yet another theocraft... Dammit, I want my PC back

[Boeroer]

I hate to say it, but your assumptions concerning bash are a bit wrong.
Using a shield with bash doesn't count as dual wielding. Your speed stays the same as with a normal shield. And because bash's damage is inferior to main weapon's damage it leads to an overall dps loss with auto attacks. In other words: bash itself is crap. OBS messed that one up. If you only consider (riposte's) full attacks though bash is a bit better than a normal shield.  

 

The best shield for a riposte rogue - if we only look at riposte itself - would be Badgradr's Barricade. It has not only bash, but also triggers Thrust of Tattered Veils (ToTV) on crit unlimited times per encounter. Rogues can do a lot of crits, so that fits. ToTV also works with Deathblows, that's another plus. You can use a rogues special Full Attack with a disabling weapon - let's say Blinding Strike with Godhanstunyr - and your bash will then most likely crit, troggertin ToTV with Deathblows. ToTV has faily high base damage so a deathblow bonus is quite nice with it. You can even skip the disabling weapon if you have team mates who disable for you and take Bittercut or any other sabre for max (riposte) damage.

 

Another great pick would be Dragon's Maw... if it only was bindable to rogues.

 

Old Gerun's Wall will generate more ripostes of course, but it also lowers your ACC and will only result in a single riposte attack.

 

Another nice option for a high deflection riposte rogue can be Alia Braccia. It doesn't do anything special for riposte itself, but in combination with Adept Evasion, Riposte and it's ranged reflection you make your rogue nearly untouchable against any reflex and deflection based attacks. Melee attacks will likely result in graze or miss and will be countered with riposte - AoE spells like Fireball or dragon wing slams and stuff will most likely miss because of Adept Evasion - targeted ranged attacks like Necrotic Lance, Lagufaeths' blowguns, Cleansing Flames and so on will be turned into misses and get reflected if they graze.

 

With Escape (+25 deflection) and a priest with Circle of Defense (and maybe a shieldbearer paladin with Outworn Buckler - his deflecion buffs via Outworn Buckler, Lay on Hands and FoD stack with everything) you can reach crazy high amounts of deflection with this rogue. 

 

Another tactic to generate lots of ripostes is to stack deflection bonus against disengagement attacks and then provoke them. With Fast Runner, Cape of Withdrawal or Night Runner armor and Graceful Retreat you can stack +32 defense against diseng. attacks. With a chanter even +42. Add all those deflection buffs from priests and paladins etc on top. Then run around the enemy. You will generate tons of ripostes while the mobs will miss most of the time. It's effective but a micromanagement-hassle... 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Boeroer

[Ben No.3]

Alright, thanks a lot... Bash doesn't result in dual wielding? Then why am I using it?!?!? I see why it is useful for abilities, but the fact that is doesn't count as dual wielding... calls for a post on the 3.04 forum

Edited September 21, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Jojobobo]

Bash is actually extremely useful for the Rogue's Strike abilities, as they get two opportunities at the strike effect - with the less accurate bash hitting first. So for example with Blinding Strike, if you hit with a graze on the bash initially then reflex is dramatically debuffed from the second attempt resulting from the weapon - resulting in crits a lot of the time.

 

So yeah, don't rely on it for dual wielding on a Rogue but bash shields are far from useless. Boeroer has rather expertly listed the various shield alternatives, my picks would be Badgradr's Barricade using the Rogue's +hit to crit abilities and talents or Alia Braccia with Adept Evasion. The Yellow Flash build gives a nice summation of most of the effects going.

 

The trouble I've had with these Rogues is I find them way too lacking in initial defence and their offence requiring buffing that their talent and ability slots are highly contested. Playing a Riposte/Retaliation Deep Wounds Rogue - though it works - is way more challenging as a result than playing a Chanter who is doing a dramatically better job of DoT effects with the Dragon Thrashed.

 

Something to think about, and don't let it put you off a tank Rogue, just be aware of their shortcomings which at base 15 deflection are significant.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

Fun fact: with my recent barbarian tank, my bash has a much higher ACC than my main weapon.

[Ben No.3]

Fun fact: with my recent barbarian tank, my bash has a much higher ACC than my main weapon.

Because.... The barbarian is using the not fully upgraded unlaboured blade?

Edited September 22, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Jojobobo]

Hmmm maybe accuracy on bash shields isn't calculated as I thought then, it's been a while since I tested.

[Boeroer]

I'm using a fine Bittercut atm with a fine Badgradr's Barricade (yeah, looks horrible, I'm aiming for Dragon's Maw). I have no weapon focus though. Bittercut's ACC is below 60 at lvl 10 and Barricade's is above 60. I guess with Weapon Focus they could be on par. Also funny: when I hover over the ACC numbers and add up the things that are listed for the Barricade's ACC, I don't end up at above 60 but less than the main weapon's ACC. So there seems to be a hidden ACC bonus with bash somewhere.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Boeroer

[Loren Tyr]

Keep in mind that Bash is an ability, so it gets +1 ACC per level. I'm fairly certain that's your hidden bonus, I don't think it's shown in the inventory ACC value components.

[Boeroer]

Right! That explains it.

 

Should be listed in the in the inventory ACC value components though. Something like "bash: +10 (+1 per lvl)". 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Boeroer