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[CLASS BUILD] The Yellow Flash (Riposte Offtank Rogue)


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#1
mosspit

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I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. 
If you are looking out for the highest dpser in my party I can tell you I don't min max. 
But what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long playthrough.
Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.
If you attack someone else now that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you (my party member will do that).
But if you don't, I will stand my ground, I will face tank you.
And I will kill you.

[CLASS BUILD] The Yellow Flash (Riposte Offtank Rogue)

Build Environment
 
Version 3.03 with White March Part I & II
 
 
Core Concept
 
The Yellow Flash comes from the yellow trails that appear when Riposte happens. The Yellow Flash is also quick with her feet, boasting high reflex that is further boosted by Adept Evasion.
3.03 Riposte has received a well needed buff and so begins the journey of giving the skill a chance in my latest (completed) playthrough. Riposte now gives a 30% chance to trigger a Full Attack on a graze on Deflection check and a 20% chance on miss. Riposte attacks will carry the same benefits as the auto-attack version, which means they are can be sneak attacks/deathblows, and can trigger on-hit/on-crit effects. But it means that they can also miss. Also Escape now gives +25 Deflection and Reflex (10s). Afaik there is another rogue build using Riposte as a key ability but The Yellow Flash is built very differently.
 
Attached File  screen.jpg   31.81KB   16 downloads


Personal Playthrough Experience

I have used Rogues in the traditional sense (dual wield sabres) and they are excellent single target dpser. But they are in no way durable and I use skills like escape and shadowing beyond to drop aggro if needed. So I wanted to try something different and after some light research I started a playthrough with a MC Riposte Rogue. It is both a validation of how Riposte performs and if an inherently defensively weak class like Rogue can at least take up an offtank position. The playthrough I used this Rogue in is a 6man party (The Yellow Flash, Tank Fighter, 2H Offtank Chanter, DW Barbarian, Support Priest, Utility Shapeshifter Druid). This is a melee party (no ranged weapons). Playthrough is also done on Trial of Iron with no split pulling of enemies. All signature fights are attempted and done successfully.

Recommended Stats Allocation
MIG: 11
CON: 14
DEX: 11
PER: 15
INT: 10
RES: 17

Stats for Personal Playthrough
Spoiler


Rationale
Good RES investment to push Deflection to decent levels or rather to overcome the low starting Deflection of the Rogue Class. High PER for good offence in terms of accuracy / crit-rate. For the recommended stats, I propose to give higher CON. Reason is during my playthrough I find that while the Rogue fares well in melee, spell dmg will have the most impact in bringing down The Yellow Flash. So having a higher End/Health pool to sustain through the damage is helpful, and to booster Fort which tends to be the weakest save for The Yellow Flash. As mentioned, Escape add Deflection and Reflexes for a short period of time. Early on you can use to escape engagements. Later on, you can use Escape as an opening skill to engage enemies with higher defences. Shadowing Beyond is mostly to drop aggro when things go south but generally it see more use in early game. You don't really need High Mig as Sneak Attack/Deathblows + equipment will give good damage values. Not to mention The Yellow Flash has a good crit rate.


Recommended Talents
(a=auto, r=recommended, !=important)

Weapon Focus: Noble
Weapon And Shield Style (!)
Cautious Attack ®
Shadowing Beyond ®
Vicious Fighting (!)
Superior Deflection ®
Bear's Fortitude ®
Body Control/Unstoppable
 

Recommended Abilities
 
Elemental Endurance (a)
Sneak Attack (a)
Blinding Strikes ® (if there are reliable sources of Blind from the party, choose Crippling Strike)
Escape (!)
Dirty Fighting (!)
Riposte (!)
Adept Evasion (!)
Deathblows (Ignore if you can't place stack status debuffs)
Sap / Smoke Cloud
Deep Wounds ®
 
Quest Talents (For MC)
Blooded Hunter
Song of the Heavens
Dungeon Delver
Gift of the Machine
Scale-Breaker
Flick of the Wrist
Dozen's Luck
The Merciless Hand
Galawain's Boon
 
Rationale:
Riposte is of course needed, but you might not be able to get Badgradr's Barricade early. So even though Riposte can be chosen at lvl5, you can opt to take it at lvl7 instead. Dirty/Vicious is for dps purposes. When I played a tradition dual sabre hearth orlan rogue, my critical count is about twice that of normal hits. The Yellow Flash ended the playthrough with about 30% more criticals than hits which isn't too shabby. Weapon and Shield Talent will add your shield's deflection values to your reflex and Adept Evasion further makes reflex attacks much harder to land on the Yellow Flash. Things like Dragons Breaths are very manageable. Crippling Strike is for opening skills and helps to trigger Sneak Attacks/Deathblows. Sap is mainly to interrupt mages' spellcasting but you can replaace with Smoke Cloud if preferred.
 

Race and Culture
 
Cultural Background
Old Valia - Labourer

Skills: Stealth 2, Athletics 5, Lore 2, Mechanics 12, Survival 8


Recommeded Races
 
Pale Elf
Spells will be the biggest source of "big" damage to The Yellow Flash. So +10DR to cold and fire will help.
Coastal Aumaua
Because Prone and Stun is annoying. They will decrease your defences and it is likely that your Deflection will be out of range for triggering Riposte
 

Recommended Items
 
Head: Maegfolc Skull (!) (Before: Garodh's Chorus Preservation Version)
Body: He Carry Many Scars / Coat of Ill Payment (Before: Plate Armour)
Neck: Mantle of the Excavator (Before: Lilith's Shawl)
Gloves: Siegebreaker Gauntlets (Before: Gauntlets of Accuracy / Mourning Gloves)
Belt: Gridle of Eoten Constitution
Legs: Viettro's Formal Footwear (Before: Boots of Stability)
Rings: Ring of Protection / Ring of Deflection / Ring of Thorns
Weapons:
LH: Drawn in Spring / Unlaboured Blade
RH: Badgradr's Barricade (!)

Rationale:
Wear the heaviest armour as Armour Penalty is not that big of an issue due to Riposte. Maegfolc Skull is prefered as it help both the Rogue both defensively and offensively. Unbending is good as The Yellow Flash does not have many ways to regain Endurance aside for consumable uses. He Carries Many Scars for a defensive approach with the slight regen and increase in DR when the Yellow Flash is taking significant dmg. Coat of Ill Payment for a offensive approach to propagate Deep Wounds to attackers via Retaliation.

Badgradr's Barricade is the best shield for this build as due bash and on-crit effect of Thrust of the Tattered Veils. The added deflection will help to create more openings for Riposte and the Weapon and Shield Style will add Reflex which in turn synergize with Adept Evasion. If you are lucky, you might be able to purchase Scath Gwannek from Azzuro. While not as good Badgradr's Barricade, it is still decent to tide you over till you can get the Badgradr's Barricade. You can get a bash shield called Larder Door very early in Act 1, but I feel the accuracy penalty is too steep, especially at the early stage of the game.
 
For weapon selection, it is actually quite flexible. The crit rate of this build is not bad so you can choose single handed weapons with nice crit effects or high damage.I like WF: Noble as you can wield Drawn in Spring and it stacks with Flick of the Wrist. Unlaboured Blade is nice because of it benefits from all WF and Flick of the Wrist, has 20% speed to make up for loss of dual wield speed and high dmg/acc when fully upgraded. The spell proc is not that impressive though so be warned. Generally, avoid weapons that do hard CC like We Toki or Godansthunyr as they will prevent enemies from attacking you.
 

Role Analysis
 
Pros: This build can still maintain a decent offense with very good survivablility. On-crit effects from weapons (especially Badgradr's Barricade) do trigger pretty often. It is a relatively low micro management build once you established positioning. Once the items are in place, Riposte triggers at a decent rate against most mobs. It is a fun build in the sense that it goes off the beaten path of the dps melee and ranged versions, and it is still viable on PotD.

Cons: It is quite item dependent. Until Badgradr's Barricade is gotten, the Rogue is in a place where it can either be a less effective dual wield dps rogue or a meat shield that doesn't really do much damage. So it will be advisable to make a beeline for the shield in Durgan's Battery meaning going through Ogres and the Constructs in Galvino's place. Against signature fights, the Rogue is generally not strong enough to tank the bosses alone. This is because besides Adept Evasion, there isn't much going for the Rogue that aids it's survivability. Compared to classes like Fighters, Monks and Paladins with class specific tanking abilities.

Afterthoughts
 
The Yellow Flash was quite decent to play in my opinion. And it is off the beaten path so building The Yellow Flash was fun for me. But it also depends on your playstyle. If your party is one that focus on hard cc to render enemies unable to attack, it might be better to skip Riposte as it will not be triggered frequently. 

I still feel that Riposte is slightly underpowered but at least now there is notable mileage from picking the ability versus before 3.03.
 
 
Good Luck

Edited by mosspit, 30 July 2016 - 05:52 PM.

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#2
Boeroer

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Taken? :)
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#3
Jojobobo

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I played a solo PotD build similar to this on 3.02, obviously without Riposte or Adept Evasion then because they sucked. In light of that build, which got pretty far into the game, I would strongly recommend taking Coat of Ill Payment over He Carries Many Scars for the Retaliation effect (even though you don't benefit from +2 Resolve if you're taking Siegebreaker Gauntlets). Retaliation gives all enemies fighting you Deep Wounds, which on tankier builds is a massive benefit.

 

Seeing as I wanted to incorporate Riposte and Adept Evasion into my 3.03 build, the main reason I didn't play it was I've had trouble reconciling those abilities with the build I liked in 3.02. As a party build, where other people can inflict status, this is really nice.


Edited by Jojobobo, 30 July 2016 - 12:26 PM.

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#4
mosspit

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Taken? :)

 
Sorry about that :p
When it comes to these kind of snippets, I am not exactly the most creative person ever. Took me quite long to come up with a revenge themed one too lol

I played a solo PotD build similar to this on 3.02, obviously without Riposte or Adept Evasion then because they sucked. In light of that build, which got pretty far into the game, I would strongly recommend taking Coat of Ill Payment over He Carries Many Scars for the Retaliation effect (even though you don't benefit from +2 Resolve if you're taking Siegebreaker Gauntlets). Retaliation gives all enemies fighting you Deep Wounds, which on tankier builds is a massive benefit.
 
Seeing as I wanted to incorporate Riposte and Adept Evasion into my 3.03 build, the main reason I didn't play it was I've had trouble reconciling those abilities with the build I liked in 3.02. As a party build, where other people can inflict status, this is really nice.


Coat of Ill Payment is definitely a strong contender for optimal armour. But the reason I chose He Carries Many Scars is due to the Trial of Iron mode where I highly value survivability. Even though my entire party is built with some degree of tankiness to handle some engagement, I try not to allow her or the anchor tank fall. When that happens, things usually go south really fast and I needed to redo the game from the start.

But I think Coat of Ill Payment fits the theme of revenge better and am including it in the build :)

#5
Boeroer

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No, it's cool. I only wanted to know if I recognized the origin of that snippet correctly. :)

#6
Jojobobo

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Fair enough, I'm sure the extra trickle of health would be more useful going Trail by Iron. It might be a good idea to put it's both PotD and Trail by Iron in the build environment as I missed it initially, it's quite a feat.



#7
mosspit

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No, it's cool. I only wanted to know if I recognized the origin of that snippet correctly. :)


You are correct good sir!
 

Fair enough, I'm sure the extra trickle of health would be more useful going Trail by Iron. It might be a good idea to put it's both PotD and Trail by Iron in the build environment as I missed it initially, it's quite a feat.


Actually I prefer your view. Because this build is meant to be for general PotD, although a tad more conservative. I play Trial of Iron since my 4th playthrough as I find that for some reason, I will completely lose interest in a playthrough once I wipe the first time. Before that, the tension makes the playthrough very inviting. So Trial of Iron is a natural progression, albeit it's a personal one. Solo is a tougher feat to pull off, you and Boeroer will know better :p

Edited by mosspit, 31 July 2016 - 12:50 AM.


#8
Dr <3

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In my experience the problem with solo rogue is that you have to go for max stealth/pacifist strategy ( and skip most encounter) or kite/Split pull like there is no tomorrow or the mass scroll abuse like boeroer illustrate in his sorceror apprentice build.
But go in "normal" melee was always a failure for me, simply he lacks the means to kill fast 4+ mobs ( like barbarian or monk) or to tank them while killing them slowly ( like pala or fighter). I always ending killing one or two people and die fast afterward, unless you run like a chiken and restart the fight recovering your abilities.

#9
Jojobobo

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In my experience the problem with solo rogue is that you have to go for max stealth/pacifist strategy ( and skip most encounter) or kite/Split pull like there is no tomorrow or the mass scroll abuse like boeroer illustrate in his sorceror apprentice build.
But go in "normal" melee was always a failure for me, simply he lacks the means to kill fast 4+ mobs ( like barbarian or monk) or to tank them while killing them slowly ( like pala or fighter). I always ending killing one or two people and die fast afterward, unless you run like a chiken and restart the fight recovering your abilities.

As I mentioned I managed it in 3.02 solo PotD, getting most of the way through Act 3 (I'd been told to go to Burial Isle, after completing a god quest) and well into White March part I. You just need good healing (Moon Godlike plus Veteran's Recovery if you take survival healing bonuses and a Belt of Bountiful Healing, is enough) and Retaliate and a decent bash shield to grind down mobs with Deep Wounds. It can be tough to get a Retaliate item early, but if you chain rest in Caed Nua in Act 2 you can usually get one from Azurro before completing Defiance Bay - after that you're on easy street.



#10
Dr <3

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For some reason now i wonder how will it work with a fire godlike. Somebondy knows if dirty fighting works with retaliation effects and with battleforged specifically?

#11
Jojobobo

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All the Rogues' effects (Deathblows, Dirty Fighting, etc.) work with Retaliation for sure - I don't know about Battle Forged but I'd imagine they would. As the damage coming off Battle Forged is strong late game, this might make for a pretty decent tanky Retaliation build.



#12
Boeroer

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I tested Battle Forged with a rogue a bit, Deathblows work, Sneak Attack works, like all the other melee stuff like Vuln. Attacks and Savage Attack - so I assume Dirty and Vicious Fighting also work - even Reckless Assault should work (if you don't take Savage Attack - they can't be stacked). So a rogue with fat armor who gets grazed a lot and has some heals can be a good thing with Battle Forged. It also stacks with normal retaliation - which also works with all of this and even deals Deep Wounds. YOu can even stack this wit a potion of Flame Shield - which also works with all those things.

 

I recently imagined a dual sabre riposte rogue with Escape (+25 deflection), max bonus against disengagement attacks (+32), high move speed (+4 from Boots of Speed + Fast Runner), Cautious Attack, and so on to boost delfection even further and combine this with Fire Godlike and Garod's Chorus for retaliation and a potion of Flame Shield. The deflection while running in circles and provoking diseng. attacks should be high enough to get lots of grazes so riposte triggers all the time and  also trigger retaliation. When things go bad and I hit 50% endurance Battle Forged with Sneak and Deathblows should kill most attackers quickly. 

If deflection is too low with sabres maybe hatchets work. The one that deals fatigue on hit (-10 ACC) could also be great for this rogue. If this is also not enough deflection I'd have to try out shields... 


Edited by Boeroer, 31 July 2016 - 08:10 AM.

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#13
mosspit

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Any idea what bonus acc is applied on Disengagement Attacks?

 

I tried just to use Hatchets and Cautious Attack normally and Riposte is quite rare. Like 1 or 2 times an encounter. A look at the combat log and most sustained hits were "hits".

 

Maybe add Potion of Llengrath's Displaced Image in addition to those Disengagement bonuses. And also, some of the fighters in the new content has overbearing guard.



#14
Boeroer

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Yeah, that's why I wanted to add Cape of Withdrawal, Fast Runner and Graceful Retreat for +32 deflection while disengaging. Did you try that as well?

 

Hahaha - I just realized that Escape lets you move without any engangement while you also have the +25 deflection bonus - thus obliterating my plan to provoke disengagement attacks, dammit..

 

So potions or scrolls have to buff your deflection - or a party member like a paladin with Reinforcing Exhortation or something.Hm, when you use Spelltonge and Riposte gets triggered a lot then maybe that rogue could prolong the deflection buffs throughout the whole encouter... ?

 

@Loren Tyr, have a look into the code and tell us what ACC bonus and how much bonus damage disengagement attacks have please. :bow:   ;)


Edited by Boeroer, 31 July 2016 - 09:29 AM.


#15
Jojobobo

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I'm interesting in hearing how the high def disengagement Deep Wounds runner works out. I've got a feeling it's one of those builds that looks good on paper (Dangerous Implements Monk) but in practically doesn't work so well, but I'd love to hear I was wrong.


Edited by Jojobobo, 31 July 2016 - 10:17 AM.


#16
Boeroer

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That may be. But what does work is running around the mob with high speed and lots of deflection. Even without riposte this can be very effective. Most of the time the enemies try to follow you and totally forget to attack your party and don't use spells or things like that. It's a bit like abusing the KI. Did it once with a speedy paladin and it worked. And when you can squeeze in some ripostes and Deep Wounds for damage... why not? :)
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#17
Dr <3

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Since you nominated Deep wounds... After all the discussion about Dots, they actually benefit from High int or are in the "fixed dmg" cathegory so should be better have low int for do the dmg faster?

Edited by Dr <3, 31 July 2016 - 12:52 PM.


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This time I'm 100 % sure because Deep Wounds were the base of the Mad Hornet build and I used it a lot:

Deep Wounds are better with high INT (and high MIG of course). Other than with wounding where the fixed damage is spread over the time, you get a certain damage per tick (damage gets influenced by MIG) and more ticks with more INT. It doesn't stack as wounding does though. So you could say that high INT isn't better if you hit a target more often (because Deep Wounds gets refreshed anyways) - and that's right. High INT only pays off if you hit once, let the Deep Wounds "bleed" and in the meanwhile turn/run towards another target. 



#19
Dr <3

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Ah ok now i remember there was something that prevented Deep wounds to do massive dmg... They don't stack. Thks.

#20
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Right - only exception: when you combine Deep Wounds with AoE pierce/crush/slash damage the can do massive damage. For example take a spell binding of Overbearing Wave or a scroll of Twin Stones or Concussive Missiles: they will apply Deep Wounds to all enemies who get hit by the spell. That can mean up to 20 extra raw damage per spell with high MIG and INT. 






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