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About Magran: Sure she's not Ares? As Mars in Roman culture he is even portrayed with red skin (didn't do digging though... Just comes to my mind)

Everybody knows the deal is rotten

Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton

For your ribbons and bows

And everybody knows

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Joan of Arc never fought in a single battle and was (rightly) proud of never having killed anyone, seems an unlikely candidate except perhaps for the fiery martyrdom.

 

Magran reminds me personally of the Loa Ogun, though feminised of course.

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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I'd like to disagree... Athene was the goddess of Victory and Wisdom, not necessarily war. That was Ares...

 

So was Belonna. Look her up.

 

What is Eothas supposed to be? Eoran Lathander?

 

Helios? or Egyptian Ra?

 

I see many connection of Eoran pantheon with gods from Dark Eye setting (german D&D). Look:

 

Praios - god of light, sun and justice, king of gods = Eothas + Woedica

Rondra - goddes of fight, honor and courage = Magran

Efferd - god of water, seas and rain = Ondra

Travia - goddes of marital love and family = Hylea

Boron - god of death, silence and oblivion = Berath + Rymrgrand + Ondra

Hesinde - goddes of knowledge, magic and art = Hylea + Galawain (knowlegde aspect)

Firun - god of winter and hunt = Rymrgrand + Galawain

Tsa - goddes of children, birth and rebirth =  Hylea + Eothas

Phex - god of smartness, cleverness and trade = Skaen (he is deceptive) + Abydon (trade)

Peraine - goddes of healing and agriculture = Gaun (Eothas' aspect)

Ingerimm - god of fire and smithing = Magran + Abydon

Rahja - goddes of  sexual love and beauty =  Ondra (she is a patron of love)

Edited by White Phoenix
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I'd like to disagree... Athene was the goddess of Victory and Wisdom, not necessarily war. That was Ares...

 

So was Belonna. Look her up.

 

What is Eothas supposed to be? Eoran Lathander?

 

Helios? or Egyptian Ra?

 

I see many connection of Eoran pantheon with gods from Dark Eye setting (german D&D). Look:

 

Praios - god of light, sun and justice, king of gods = Eothas + Woedica

Rondra - goddes of fight, honor and courage = Magran

Efferd - god of water, seas and rain = Ondra

Travia - goddes of marital love and family = Hylea

Boron - god of death, silence and oblivion = Berath + Rymrgrand + Ondra

Hesinde - goddes of knowledge, magic and art = Hylea + Galawain (knowlegde aspect)

Firun - god of winter and hunt = Rymrgrand + Galawain

Tsa - goddes of children, birth and rebirth =  Hylea + Eothas

Phex - god of smartness, cleverness and trade = Skaen (he is deceptive) + Abydon (trade)

Peraine - goddes of healing and agriculture = Gaun (Eothas' aspect)

Ingerimm - god of fire and smithing = Magran + Abydon

Rahja - goddes of  sexual love and beauty =  Ondra (she is a patron of love)

 

 

Yeah, I've gotta try those The Dark Eye PC games. I've got Daedalic games, I only need to get Drakensang and...??? something more?

 

It certainly reeks of promise and potential.

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Well, the thing about gods is all about their aspects. Things that they oversee. You rather don't have clear cut equivalents of the Pillars gods in the real world mythologies and every time you design a god, you must assign a field a god if responsible for. I think that Obsidian combined those aspects very nicely. For example, you can easily associate the sea with things lost and forgotten, like some wreck hidden below the waves.

Edited by Pus-in-Boots
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I agree that Abydon and Ondra were extremely well-written and rather inventive, but others seemed... a bit generic. I mean Berath is basically D&D Kelemvor and I didn't read Skaen lore books, but from his dialogue in Sun in Shadow I assumed he is Cyric 2.0.

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I agree that Abydon and Ondra were extremely well-written and rather inventive, but others seemed... a bit generic. I mean Berath is basically D&D Kelemvor and I didn't read Skaen lore books, but from his dialogue in Sun in Shadow I assumed he is Cyric 2.0.

Nah. Cyric is just crazy and destructive. Skaen is more calculating, silently malevolent, which makes him more interesting. Also, as the game seems very Nietzschean, he is the slave morality personified. 

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I agree that Abydon and Ondra were extremely well-written and rather inventive, but others seemed... a bit generic. I mean Berath is basically D&D Kelemvor and I didn't read Skaen lore books, but from his dialogue in Sun in Shadow I assumed he is Cyric 2.0.

Nah. Cyric is just crazy and destructive. Skaen is more calculating, silently malevolent, which makes him more interesting. Also, as the game seems very Nietzschean, he is the slave morality personified. 

 

 

What is Rymrgand then? My thoughts when compared to DnD are:

 

Berath: Kelemvor(missed opportunity, meh)

Eothas: Lathander(can't see anyone else)

Rymrgand: ??? (Jergal? Myrkul?)

Skaen: Talos

Wael: Mystra

Hylea: Oghma / Correlion Larethian

Magran: Kossuth(this theme especially fits Durance) / Kord from Greyhawk

Ondra: Ulmo / Osse lol(don't care sorry)

Abydon: Gond

Woedica: Hoar

Gaun = Eothas, so...

Galawain: ??? (I haven't been able to find anything...wild enough for Gal)

 

note: it's funny how Helm is missing :D

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I agree that Abydon and Ondra were extremely well-written and rather inventive, but others seemed... a bit generic. I mean Berath is basically D&D Kelemvor and I didn't read Skaen lore books, but from his dialogue in Sun in Shadow I assumed he is Cyric 2.0.

Nah. Cyric is just crazy and destructive. Skaen is more calculating, silently malevolent, which makes him more interesting. Also, as the game seems very Nietzschean, he is the slave morality personified. 

 

 

What is Rymrgand then? My thoughts when compared to DnD are:

 

Berath: Kelemvor(missed opportunity, meh)

Eothas: Lathander(can't see anyone else)

Rymrgand: ??? (Jergal? Myrkul?)

Skaen: Talos

Wael: Mystra

Hylea: Oghma / Correlion Larethian

Magran: Kossuth(this theme especially fits Durance) / Kord from Greyhawk

Ondra: Ulmo / Osse lol(don't care sorry)

Abydon: Gond

Woedica: Hoar

Gaun = Eothas, so...

Galawain: ??? (I haven't been able to find anything...wild enough for Gal)

 

note: it's funny how Helm is missing :D

 

 

Well, if you insist on comparing the PoE gods to the D&D gods... Rymrgand would be some combination of Jergal and Auril. Galawain is the most similar to Malar, I think.

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I think none of PoE gods is basic.

 

Eotas is the god of hope, but when he turned to Waidwen, he became an over-zealous warmonger. Remember the lines when Eder didn't beliebe his god could have done what Waiden did ?

 

Skaen is the god of treason. But during the Skaen priest speech, he seems to be acting for some kind of subversive morality. It is not the purest way to act, but it is still about morality.

 

Woedica turned from god of Justice and Oaths to god of tyranny and absence of changes.

 

Rymgard is about everything coming to an end... eventually. But he seems to despise forced destruction.

 

Galawain seems to be about wild strength, but his motto emphasizes will over brute and savage force.

 

They all seem to have a kind of twist :- . Consequently, it's hard to find them equivalent in more traditional settings.

Edited by Elric Galad
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About skaen... The way I always understood him was as a not necessarily evil character, but more of a rebell of sorts... Helping slaves out of slavery (though through murder), fighting those who abuse their power (though through murder and treason). A God of the overlooked

Edited by Ben No.3

Everybody knows the deal is rotten

Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton

For your ribbons and bows

And everybody knows

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About skaen... The way I always understood him was as a not necessarily evil character, but more of a rebell of sorts... Helping slaves out of slavery (though through murder), fighting those who abuse their power (though through murder and treason). A God of the overlooked

And it is an interesting thing about Skaen (at least for me) - the natural instinct for most people is to sympathise with people who got exploited, e.g. slaves. So you should like a god who is their champion of sorts, right? But then you realize that Skaen is also the god of hatred, resentment and betrayal. This is the kind of ambiguity I appreciate. The quest involving skaenites in Dyrfort accentuates it very well. In essense, the priest there wants to fight against priviliges that nobles are entitled to in a feudal society. But what did he do? He sacrificed hundreds of human beings in an extremely bloody ritual in order to mind-rape an already unjustly harmed woman. The cause is a noble one and I would gladly watch a man like Harond die, but the means the priest resorted to are just so over the top crazy... But this is Skaen in a nutshell - theoretically noble goals, practically insane methods.

Edited by Pus-in-Boots
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I'd like to disagree... Athene was the goddess of Victory and Wisdom, not necessarily war. That was Ares...

 

She was also the goddess of cunning war strategies, while Ares was just mindless bloodlust.

 

(It helps that most of what we know of Greek Mythology was written down by Athens cholars, and Athena was their patron goddess, so they wrote her in a flattering light while her rival god, and the god of one of their rival cities, Sparta, got written very unflatteringly.)

 

I'd say Magram sounds like she has the personality of Ares but also has some traits of other female war gods and warriors, like Athena and Jean d'Arque.

Edited by Faerunner

"Not I, though. Not I," said the hanging dwarf.

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I'd like to disagree... Athene was the goddess of Victory and Wisdom, not necessarily war. That was Ares...

 

She was also the goddess of cunning war strategies, while Ares was just mindless bloodlust.

 

(It helps that most of what we know of Greek Mythology was written down by Athens cholars, and Athena was their patron goddess, so they wrote her in a flattering light while her rival god, and the god of one of their rival cities, Sparta, got written very unflatteringly.)

 

I'd say Magram sounds like she has the personality of Ares but also has some traits of other female war gods and warriors, like Athena and Jean d'Arque.

 

 

And I've always wondered how it is that Athene is the goddess of wisdom and she still quite foolishly involved herself with that "beauty contest" preceeding the Troyan War (according to myths). And it probably wasn't the only unwise action of the goddess of wisdom.

 

And Magran... She isn't the most interesting of the PoE gods. You can easily associate war and fire, nothing original there. But! Magran is also the goddess of change, transformation and progress. It's a facet of war that is often overlooked! It is said that firearms were her gift to kith. This is why she's allied with Abydon. Also, as Durance preaches, she likes her trials. It's debatable if it is always "become stronger or die and be branded by flame" but nevertheless it seems somewhat Nietzschean (Chris Avellone loves to write this kind of characters). And that trait she shares with Galawain.

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About skaen... The way I always understood him was as a not necessarily evil character, but more of a rebell of sorts... Helping slaves out of slavery (though through murder), fighting those who abuse their power (though through murder and treason). A God of the overlooked

And it is an interesting thing about Skaen (at least for me) - the natural instinct for most people is to sympathise with people who got exploited, e.g. slaves. So you should like a god who is their champion of sorts, right? But then you realize that Skaen is also the god of hatred, resentment and betrayal. This is the kind of ambiguity I appreciate. The quest involving skaenites in Dyrfort accentuates it very well. In essense, the priest there wants to fight against priviliges that nobles are entitled to in a feudal society. But what did he do? He sacrificed hundreds of human beings in an extremely bloody ritual in order to mind-rape an already unjustly harmed woman. The cause is a noble one and I would gladly watch a man like Harond die, but the means the priest resorted to are just so over the top crazy... But this is Skaen in a nutshell - theoretically noble goals, practically insane methods.
Even if skaen's motives are essentially good, even when just specifying they seem to be quite radical. Does a rapist necessarily deserve nothing but death, without a trial? If we strive to be a fair society, we must treat everyone the same way, may he be a rapist or a fighter for freedom. This should especially apply in the Dyrwood, a somewhat more democratic country (although its politics are flawed-but then again, "democracy is the worst system but the others" (Churchill) ;) ).

But while this viewpoint might be objectively right (in my opinion... Discussions welcome), I'm the eyes of the surpressed the surpressor deserves death without a trial. And the interesting part about skaen is, skaen himself seems to think that way... He also seems to be somewhat more polarising than the other gods... Do you remember the journal from one of skaen's followers? I don't think any other God could bring his followers to that point.

Everybody knows the deal is rotten

Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton

For your ribbons and bows

And everybody knows

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About skaen... The way I always understood him was as a not necessarily evil character, but more of a rebell of sorts... Helping slaves out of slavery (though through murder), fighting those who abuse their power (though through murder and treason). A God of the overlooked

And it is an interesting thing about Skaen (at least for me) - the natural instinct for most people is to sympathise with people who got exploited, e.g. slaves. So you should like a god who is their champion of sorts, right? But then you realize that Skaen is also the god of hatred, resentment and betrayal. This is the kind of ambiguity I appreciate. The quest involving skaenites in Dyrfort accentuates it very well. In essense, the priest there wants to fight against priviliges that nobles are entitled to in a feudal society. But what did he do? He sacrificed hundreds of human beings in an extremely bloody ritual in order to mind-rape an already unjustly harmed woman. The cause is a noble one and I would gladly watch a man like Harond die, but the means the priest resorted to are just so over the top crazy... But this is Skaen in a nutshell - theoretically noble goals, practically insane methods.
Even if skaen's motives are essentially good, even when just specifying they seem to be quite radical. Does a rapist necessarily deserve nothing but death, without a trial? If we strive to be a fair society, we must treat everyone the same way, may he be a rapist or a fighter for freedom. This should especially apply in the Dyrwood, a somewhat more democratic country (although its politics are flawed-but then again, "democracy is the worst system but the others" (Churchill) ;) ).

But while this viewpoint might be objectively right (in my opinion... Discussions welcome), I'm the eyes of the surpressed the surpressor deserves death without a trial. And the interesting part about skaen is, skaen himself seems to think that way... He also seems to be somewhat more polarising than the other gods... Do you remember the journal from one of skaen's followers? I don't think any other God could bring his followers to that point.

 

 

Skaen is basically Loki, especially Marvel version. He is not to be trusted and the only thing you can expect from him is violence and treachery. Causes don't matter. It's good to ignorant vs some things.

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Anyone thinks that the only god actually interested in helping kiths is wael ( and abbydon of course)? In the end is the only one that helps you with visions and doesn't ask anything to be pleased

 

Megran is a traitorous bich, ethoas was gone in war frenzy and dead, ondra is the secret god police, skaen is the god of slaves but betrayed all other gods to serve woedica ( this will never make sense to me), galwain is more or less neutral, berath the same, rymgrand the same

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Anyone thinks that the only god actually interested in helping kiths is wael ( and abbydon of course)? In the end is the only one that helps you with visions and doesn't ask anything to be pleased

 

Megran is a traitorous bich, ethoas was gone in war frenzy and dead, ondra is the secret god police, skaen is the god of slaves but betrayed all other gods to serve woedica ( this will never make sense to me), galwain is more or less neutral, berath the same, rymgrand the same

 

Berath is a secretly a member of United Federation of Planets under a Prime Directive. Hence being unable to interfere.

Rymrgand is actually quite an interesting god. Glad they didn't make Nurgle or Cyric or something like that out of him.

 

You forgot Hylea. She actually wanted to help. But I always saw her part at the end as a proxy for Eothas. Just answer this and you'll understand why Eothas:

 

"Would Lathander do what Hylea eventually did?"(if you followed through with your pact)

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Anyone thinks that the only god actually interested in helping kiths is wael ( and abbydon of course)? In the end is the only one that helps you with visions and doesn't ask anything to be pleased

 

Megran is a traitorous bich, ethoas was gone in war frenzy and dead, ondra is the secret god police, skaen is the god of slaves but betrayed all other gods to serve woedica ( this will never make sense to me), galwain is more or less neutral, berath the same, rymgrand the same

I always thought Wael was helping in his final interaction. Wael is the god of secrets and revelations. By hiding the souls, those who go looking for them will discover the truth about the Engwithans.

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