Obscure Ranged Combatants

[Blades of Vanatar]

Anyone try out Monk, Fighter or Barbarian Ranged builds?

[Clerith]

Long Pain Monk is legit. Check the sticky, it should have a build for it.

[Blades of Vanatar]

I'm talking skirmisher builds with bow/Xbox/gun.

[Kazuma]

You didn't look very hard when it comes to fighter - http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83612-class-build-the-engineer-shocking-dps-fighter-artillery-tank/

 

As for the others I dunno. I mean the main mechanic of the monk is to receive wounds. There's no reason why you can't stand in melee range with a ranged weapon but Long Pain sounds like the thing to use if you want longer range on a monk - http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/87160-class-build-the-witch-doctor-mid-ranged-dps-monk-disabler/

 

Know even less about barb mechanics. Haven't tried one yet.

 

Nothing says you can't put a ranged weapon in any classes hands. Will it be optimal or even viable? /shrug.

[Boeroer]

With monks you can have the idea that a build that uses Dangerous Implements in order to get wouds. I tried a monk with The Golden Gaze once, but it's pretty underwhelming. Some things work ranged, like Swift + Lightning Strikes. If you want to stack wounds it's also of little use, because Turning Wheel only works in melee. I didn't test if Blood Testament gloves work, but I doubt it. In order to effectively spend wounds you'd have to go melee or use them for the two duplicates which come late. Sadly, most of the monks special attacks (even those which don't require wounds) don't work with ranged weapons (The Long Pain aside).

 

Fighters can reach ok damage per hit with ranged weapons. They are one of the few classes that can pile up a few damage modifiers even on ranged weapons, like Confident Aim, Weapon Specialisation and Weapon Mastery. I tried an arquebus fighter once but was disappointed by the damage. Also here, most of the fighter's abilitites are focused on melee or defenses. So at every odd level you have to search really hard for an ability that is not completely useless. I didn't try out bows, but I guess it's the same problem.

 

I also tried a ranged barb (who would have guessed) because of Frenzy + Bloodlust + Bloodthirst. This can result in great attack speed when you fight weak mobs or focus on delivering the killing blow in a party. You can combine that with items that do things on kill, like Tempered Helm or Morning Gloves. And scrolls & spells work with Blood Lust, too. So if you deliver some fireballs and kill somebody, you can spam additional spells like crazy with 0 recovery. At first Frenzy will help to be fast, after the first kill you will have no recovery for the next spell, after the second kill Bloodlust also kicks in and helps when you didn't kill anybody, it stacks with frenzy by the way - then comes another kill and so on - you get the point I guess. Honestly the spell thing is more appealing than the pure ranged weapon thing because it can be. But you can combine it. I wiped out Darzir's whole pack with my solo barb (who has Bloodlust and Bloodthirst) with 10 scrolls of Fan of Flames because after the first two or three scrolls the wolfs were dying, then the spamming started and didn't stop until everyone was dead. It's scroll intense of course, but you can do tough encounters with this approach alone. I wonder if Death Godlike + Bloody Slaughter would be a good combination for this kill stealing barb. Barbaric Blow works with a ranged weapon by the way (without carnage hits), giving you a 1.5 crit damage multiplier together with Bloody Slaughter.

It's not too powerful, but it feels better than a ranged monk or fighter. Sadly, the damage-boosting abilities of a barb (One Stands Alone, Blooded) only work reliably when you are in melee range or get beaten, but they also work for spells and ranged weapons.
Frenzy, the three yells/shouts, Wild Sprint, Brute Force, Eye of the Storm (very useful for such a build), Dragon Leap (for escaping) and Bloodlust and Blood Thirst work pretty well. I guess to get the most out of the "skip recovery altogether" mechanic of Blood Thirst it's best to use a slow, hard hitting weapon with no reloading - so a war bow.

The best ability or barbs, carnbage, is of course wasted with this approach. But I guess you can make a fun to play build around war bow and spell binding items (and scrolls).

Edited July 22, 2016 by Boeroer

[Blades of Vanatar]

I was thinking a solo Skirmisher Monk. They have excellent starting Accuracy and Deflection. Shoot on the Run, Apprentice Sneak Attack, Marksman, Ranged DR bypass, Quick Switch. Possibly with Borresaine for stun effects or Lenas Er. With any disengaging boosting options. Missile/Melee/Missle. Guessing an Aumaua to add an extra weapon set.

[DreamWayfarer]

I'm talking skirmisher builds with bow/Xbox/gun.

I'm talking skirmisher builds with

Xbox

Wrong game, pal. But I suppose a Monk could let one of the older Xbox360 models overheat and use the fire damage wounds to Force of Anguish it into an enemy mob before it exploded.

 

Ah Ah Aj

[Boeroer]

Yeah, that can work well. You have to use ranged weapons when soloing anyway at some points, regardless of the class. But honestly the Long Pain is the much better alternative from lvl 7 on because it doesn't matter if you have those on or your normal fists - only that they are also ranged and have even better ACC. They are better than any other ranged weapon because they do single target damage of an arquebus with the speed of fists, plus dual wielding applies AND two weapon style, too. And most importantly they work with TOrment'S Reach from a distance. I think it is one of the best abilitities for soloing. You don't need to build a glasscannon like the Witch Doctor to make it great. You can go the tanky way and still retreat without losing dps. Or you go the ranged way and go in for melee to get wounds from time to time. They work with nearly all special attacks of the monk (but not Turning Wheel).

I think no built with ranged weapons can compare to that. Just imagine running away with Long Stride and Shot on the Run while putting out Torment's Reach onto the enemy who is following you in a nice cone shaped formation...

[Blades of Vanatar]

 

I'm talking skirmisher builds with bow/Xbox/gun.

I'm talking skirmisher builds with

Xbox

Wrong game, pal. But I suppose a Monk could let one of the older Xbox360 models overheat and use the fire damage wounds to Force of Anguish it into an enemy mob before it exploded.

 

Ah Ah Aj

Do u think it will work?!

[Blades of Vanatar]

Yeah, that can work well. You have to use ranged weapons when soloing anyway at some points, regardless of the class. But honestly the Long Pain is the much better alternative from lvl 7 on because it doesn't matter if you have those on or your normal fists - only that they are also ranged and have even better ACC. They are better than any other ranged weapon because they do single target damage of an arquebus with the speed of fists, plus dual wielding applies AND two weapon style, too. And most importantly they work with TOrment'S Reach from a distance. I think it is one of the best abilitities for soloing. You don't need to build a glasscannon like the Witch Doctor to make it great. You can go the tanky way and still retreat without losing dps. Or you go the ranged way and go in for melee to get wounds from time to time. They work with nearly all special attacks of the monk (but not Turning Wheel).

I think no built with ranged weapons can compare to that. Just imagine running away with Long Stride and Shot on the Run while putting out Torment's Reach onto the enemy who is following you in a nice cone shaped formation...

No doubt Long Pain is more viable. I am just fishing for ideas/advice on a non Long Pain Monk. You already gave us that awesome build. This build doesn't have to be POTD proof. If I can stay speedy as possible I would like to run and shoot. I will name him Chris and track his story as the 'Aedyrian Sniper'.

[Boeroer]

Hehe - well, Long Stride is definetely good for that. It even stacks with Boots of Speed (and also  Fast Runner, which gives an additional bonus when disengaging). The enemies will turn away as soon as you start running. The AI turns around more quickly the faster you are. Covering a great distance in very little time is also good in encounters where the enemies won't stop chaising you (like Cail the Silent for example or the Torn Bannermen). It's also great when you get weakened, hobbled or blinded and you're still way faster than the enemy.  With Persistence, Heart of the Storm, a shocking lash and Lightning Strikes the single target damage and the attack speed should be pretty good. And with Weapon Focus Peasant you can still use your fists when you need to. And Force of Anguish and Stunning Blows can be a life saver when you get stopped by engagement or get interrupted. Rooting Pain may also be nice to shrug off enemies who came too close. You can also reach pretty good numbers when disengaging with Fast Runner, the cape (or an armor with the same enchantment like Night Runner) and Graceful Retreat. And maybe it's also wise to "retreat" to a single enemy when you get surrounded - via Flagellant's Path? The duplicates can be nice - but can you call them when you have figurine based summons on the game board?

 

Edit: Hey, how about flanking with the two duplicates and (figurine summons like shades and wood beetles, even the Rhymer's Skeletons will work - but they will die very soon) and piling up damage bonuses against flanked targets? +20% from survival is achieved realtively easy. Then +10% from an item and  Apprentice's Sneak Attack +15%. That's +45% bonus damage. You could even add the "Good Friend" crossbow for +4 ACC and +25% damage when attacking enemies which also get attacked by your summons- That would be +70% with +14 ACC (10 flanking, 4 from Good Friend). Not so bad. Only that stupid reloading. Persistence is still better I think... 

Edited July 22, 2016 by Boeroer

[Jojobobo]

A build I really wanted to play was a tank based around Silverflash. Blinding enemies dramatically drops their accuracy making you more defensive, and I believe if you spec-ed just right you could get hits in to keep that effect going permanent. However, of course the gun is super late game pretty much - and there's no decent stop-gap build to fill that gap in the meantime.

 

I too tested a Dangerous Implements Monk, but found I couldn't really maintain very many wounds, so I wouldn't recommend it.

 

In terms of a class that might actually be able to get something out of a gun build, Chanter's have the reload speed chant so I think if you paired that with high movement speed Dragon Thrashed and kiting you might be able to get something workable out. My main concern is you can't make the reload speed chant linger over the entirety of Dragon Thrashed - so the reload speed would drop just before I was about to reload, which would make me sad.

 

What annoys me about guns is that they are only useful pretty much as alpha strike weapons, apart from on a Ranger, and Ranger's do more damage with Twinned Arrows and Stormcaller. While I'm all for running a build because it looks cool and it's what you like, when you get that feeling it's so un-optimised compared to what you could be running it's a bit of a drag. DAoM Wizards may also be good, but again what's the point when you could be running an implement with blast. I guess a Cipher could do it (i.e. run three arquebus alpha strikes then a pistol on backup) but you really may as well have a different ranged weapon in that last slot in terms of DPS.

 

And I get that historically these weapons wouldn't be fired a great deal of times so it's realistic, but currently we're in a situation where using a pistol is completely pointless - which is lame. I don't know, if I even think of a good gunner concept I'll definitely make a build up for it, but currently I can't see anything that good.

[Boeroer]

Swift Aim + Gunner + max DEX leads to relatively short reload phases and such a ranger with an arquebus is great against those annoying enemies with very high DR like Drakes, Adra Animats and such. Also not bad if you can switch between Vicious Aim and Swift Aim against high defenses like dragons' or armored, defensive bounty fighters and so on. But against normal enemies they are inferior. They could be on par if Powder Burns worked with Swift or Vicious Aim - and if it didn't blind (stupid design decision).

[Blades of Vanatar]

Hehe - well, Long Stride is definetely good for that. It even stacks with Boots of Speed (and also Fast Runner, which gives an additional bonus when disengaging). The enemies will turn away as soon as you start running. The AI turns around more quickly the faster you are. Covering a great distance in very little time is also good in encounters where the enemies won't stop chaising you (like Cail the Silent for example or the Torn Bannermen). It's also great when you get weakened, hobbled or blinded and you're still way faster than the enemy. With Persistence, Heart of the Storm, a shocking lash and Lightning Strikes the single target damage and the attack speed should be pretty good. And with Weapon Focus Peasant you can still use your fists when you need to. And Force of Anguish and Stunning Blows can be a life saver when you get stopped by engagement or get interrupted. Rooting Pain may also be nice to shrug off enemies who came too close. You can also reach pretty good numbers when disengaging with Fast Runner, the cape (or an armor with the same enchantment like Night Runner) and Graceful Retreat. And maybe it's also wise to "retreat" to a single enemy when you get surrounded - via Flagellant's Path? The duplicates can be nice - but can you call them when you have figurine based summons on the game board?

 

Edit: Hey, how about flanking with the two duplicates and (figurine summons like shades and wood beetles, even the Rhymer's Skeletons will work - but they will die very soon) and piling up damage bonuses against flanked targets? +20% from survival is achieved realtively easy. Then +10% from an item and Apprentice's Sneak Attack +15%. That's +45% bonus damage. You could even add the "Good Friend" crossbow for +4 ACC and +25% damage when attacking enemies which also get attacked by your summons- That would be +70% with +14 ACC (10 flanking, 4 from Good Friend). Not so bad. Only that stupid reloading. Persistence is still better I think...

Why Persistance?

[Boeroer]

Because:

best dps of all bows when fully enchanted (the 25% wounding get modified by INT and work like a raw lash - and it stacks). Fast to shoot and reload: good when running around all the time - more shooting and less running per recovery phase necessary. And you can get it very early. Weapon Focus Peasant - like fist and hatchet and quarterstaff, fits a monk. While you run (and can't shoot) enemies still can die from wounding (for Nelson's "Haha!" effect).  For a monk with Heart of the Storm also Stormcaller would ne very nice - but it can't be bound to a monk. I mean it's still a good bow even when not bound, but can't compete without soul binding after Durgan Steel gets available.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Boeroer

[Blades of Vanatar]

Ok. I just dug up a post about bow comparison. Persistance is best DPS, hands down. I was thinking of Borresaine for the stun effect which makes it hard to compare against DPS. One can shoot more when standing still as you don't need to run when your enemy is stunned. Of course that theory only works when all enemies are immobile. Both are easily obtained early on. Maybe I'll use both and see which gives me a playstyle I prefer. Thanks guys.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Blades of Vanatar

[Boeroer]

Get 4 Lore and use Binding Web scrolls.