# Looking for clarification/help

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So, i've been scouring through the various attack speed threads, and I seriously suck at math. I used to be a hardcore numbers guy in my WoW days, sapping every stat point I could, but that got old really fast and apparently my brain dumped all that math long ago.

In essence, i'm trying to figure out, purely in an attack speed/recovery sense, which is more feasible. I'm looking at a 2h character with Tidefall, Durgan enchanted. I was pondering Ranger or Fighter, but for the life of me I can't figure out if Swift Aim or Armored Grace are actually more functional for reducing overall recovery with a 2her.

Given equal gear otherwise, and equal stats, I know the Fighter would be capable of wearing heavier armor, but would that bonus "equal out" with the Ranger's flat 20% attack speed bonus?

If the Ranger was in, let's say Durgan enchanted Hide, and the Fighter was in Durgan enchanted Breastplate, both using a Durgan enchanted Tidefall with the armor penalty reduction gloves, which would offer the best recovery speed/DPS?

Edited by Wrenn
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So, i've been scouring through the various attack speed threads, and I seriously suck at math. I used to be a hardcore numbers guy in my WoW days, sapping every stat point I could, but that got old really fast and apparently my brain dumped all that math long ago.

Ah, calculating and optimizing the stats for raiding and especially dueling was fun)

I was pondering Ranger or Fighter, but for the life of me I can't figure out if Swift Aim or Armored Grace are actually more functional for reducing overall recovery with a 2her.

Swift Aim multiplies AttackSpeedMult by 1.2

Armored Grace adds 0.2 to ArmorSpeedFactor.

- If you have no other attack speed modifying items, buffs or passives, they provide an equal benefit. Provided you wear an armor with >= 20% recovery penalty. (because armored grace cannot reduce it further than zero)

- If you do have attack speed increasing items or passives, Swift Aim will come on top, due to the way it stacks (multiplicatively).

- If you do have attack speed increasing buffs, Armored Graces will come on top, because Swift Aim bonus doesn't stack with such stuff. (namely it gets suppressed by Swift Strikes, DAoM potion, Frenzy and Time Parasite).

Given equal gear otherwise, and equal stats, I know the Fighter would be capable of wearing heavier armor, but would that bonus "equal out" with the Ranger's flat 20% attack speed bonus?

If the Ranger was in, let's say Durgan enchanted Hide, and the Fighter was in Durgan enchanted Breastplate, both using a Durgan enchanted Tidefall with the armor penalty reduction gloves, which would offer the best recovery speed/DPS?

Regarding the "speed" part:

Ranger:

spd_coef = AttackSpeedMultiplier (with Swift Aim) + ArmorSpeedFactor (0.75 for hide)

spd_coef = (1 * 1.15 * 1.2 - 1) + (0.75 + 0.15 - 1) = 0.38 - 0.1 = 0.28  (or 1.28 old style)

rec_coef = max(0, 1 - 0.28) = 0.72 (the lower - the better)

Fighter:

spd_coef = AttackSpeedMultiplier + ArmorSpeedFactor (0.6 for breastplate)

spd_coef = (1 * 1.15 - 1) + (0.6 + 0.15 + 0.2 - 1) = 0.15 - 0.05 = 0.1 (or 1.1 old style)

rec_coef = max(0, 1 - 0.1) = 0.9

So ranger's recovery will have shorter duration, by ~ 25%: 36 frames vs 45 respectively.

The reason why Pilferer's Grip gloves didn't make it into equation is because they are getting suppressed by durgan enchants from armor. Gauntlets of Swift Action are highly advised instead. With them it going to be:

Ranger:

spd_coef = AttackSpeedMultiplier (with Swift Aim) + ArmorSpeedFactor (0.75 for hide)

spd_coef = (1 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.2 - 1) + (0.75 + 0.15 - 1) = 0.587 - 0.1 = 0.487

rec_coef = max(0, 1 - 0.487) = 0.513

Fighter:

spd_coef = AttackSpeedMultiplier + ArmorSpeedFactor (0.6 for breastplate)

spd_coef = (1 * 1.15 * 1.15 - 1) + (0.6 + 0.15 + 0.2 - 1) = 0.322 - 0.05 = 0.272

rec_coef = max(0, 1 - 0.272) = 0.728

So ranger's recovery will have shorter duration, by ~ 42%: 25.6 frames vs 36.4 respectively.

P.S. As for dps part, it's way more complex, as have to fit in your buffs, stats, enemies DR and of course what abilities (and how often) you are going to use.

Edited by MaxQuest
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Wow, that's a tremendous amount of info but I think I get it. So essentially, unless I have a speed buff to apply that would equal or exceed the Ranger's Swift Aim, the Ranger will come out on top given relatively equal (after Armored Grace) recovery penalties, which makes complete sense. But if I do have a speed buff, let's say Deleterious Accuracy, the Fighter should come out on top. Do I have that right?

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Wow, that's a tremendous amount of info but I think I get it. So essentially, unless I have a speed buff to apply that would equal or exceed the Ranger's Swift Aim, the Ranger will come out on top given relatively equal (after Armored Grace) recovery penalties, which makes complete sense.

Well, what did you expect?)

But if I do have a speed buff, let's say Deleterious Accuracy, the Fighter should come out on top. Do I have that right?

Yes. Because DAoM suppresses Swift Aim (the non-reloading part), but not Armored Grace. Edited by MaxQuest
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Awesome. Thanks for all the info man, really appreciate it.

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A nice combination for a fighter is the Sanguine Plate (gives you Frenzy = 33% Attack Speed buff, more than Swift Aim) AND Armored Grace and some speed enchanted weapon(s) like the Blade of the Endless Paths. With Durgan Steel you armor will only have a 15% penalty. You will gain 33% from Frenzy, can add Durgan Steel to your speedy weapon for another 20% and 15%, then 15% from Gauntlets of Swift Action and you are not far away from zero recovery with a two handed weapon with the thickest armor type there is.

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I'd love for you to update your Attack Speed WIP thread MaxQuest, I currently have it favourited. I get how the stuff works, but a catchall reference - particularly with what suppresses what - would be incredibly useful even so.

Yours sincerely, a lazy man unwilling to put in the effort himself.

Edited by Jojobobo

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