Bug: Unable to use Grizzled Mercenary as first explore of the turn

[_Harwin_]

I knew there was a pointless boon on top of the deck so I wanted to use the mercenary explore now, while I didn't care about the boon on top rather than later and risk losing a good boon.

 

But it wouldn't let me use it as my first explore.

 

Other methods of exploring early work (Detect Magic/Evil, for instance).

 

[ArchSenex]

Detect magic is explicitly NOT an explore.  There's a rule that doesn't come up much that prohibits banking of explores.  Since you have one at the start of the turn, you can't gain another until you've used up the first one.

 

Detect magic says that you can look at it, and then encounter it if it meets certain conditions, but it isn't an explore.  It doesn't trigger things like Ezren's extra explore power for that reason.

[_Harwin_]

Ok, thanks.

 

I meant to write my subject line as "Bug?" because I thought that *might* be the rule, but forgot.  But thank you for clarifying it.

[Longshot11]

Detect magic is explicitly NOT an explore.  There's a rule that doesn't come up much that prohibits banking of explores.  Since you have one at the start of the turn, you can't gain another until you've used up the first one.

Actually, the current consensus over at the Paizo forims is quite the opposite (although there seems to be missing an official ruling on the matter).

 

Of course, even if you are allowed to use the Mercenary as first explore, you won't get your 'free' explore afterwards, so that kind of defeats the purpose of using him first. (Contrast that with a situation were you have examined the Villain on top of the deck, and at the start of your turn you want to explore with Velociraptor - deck 5 ally that adds 2d6 to your combat during his explore: this *should* be legal, but by current app implementation you won't be allowed to do it)

[_Harwin_]

Maybe this isn't "solved" then

[Nightfind]

I do remember reading something on the Paizo forums that if you used something to give you an explore before using your "Default Free Explore", you would lose your Free explore because you can't accumulate multiple explores as ArchSenex said.

 

 

Nightfind

[Nightfind]

I found an official response in the FAQ:

 

Can I play a blessing or ally to explore my location before I take my "free" exploration on my turn?

No. The rulebook says that many effects allow you to explore

again

on your turn, and we mean that.

Resolution:

On page 9 of the rulebook, under "Explore," add the following before the first sentence:

"You may explore your location once each turn without playing a card that allows you to explore; this must be your first exploration for the turn."

Later in the paragraph, strike the sentence "You may explore your location once per turn."

 

Edit:  Link:  http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9ra0

Edited June 13, 2016 by Nightfind

[Longshot11]

I found an official response in the FAQ:

 

Can I play a blessing or ally to explore my location before I take my "free" exploration on my turn?

 

No. The rulebook says that many effects allow you to explore again on your turn, and we mean that.

Resolution: On page 9 of the rulebook, under "Explore," add the following before the first sentence:

"You may explore your location once each turn without playing a card that allows you to explore; this must be your first exploration for the turn."

Later in the paragraph, strike the sentence "You may explore your location once per turn."

Edit:  Link:  http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9ra0

Yes, but the sense of this FAQ is that you can't use blessing/ally *before* your free explore, and then *after* that to take your free explore. Unfortunately, it's not relevant to the proposition that you may *forfeit* your free explore and use an ally that you know to be more advantageous.

[Hannibal_PJV]

Here Are some clarifications

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q9xk?Cards-that-let-you-explore-and-cards-that-dont

 

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/95118/turn-sequence-breakdown

 

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2toa6?Imrijkas-timing-of-roll-for-another-explore

 

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qcr4?new-downloadable-version-of-the-PACG-rulebook

 

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1083266/multiple-explores-one-character

[Nightfind]

Yeah, that first link sums it up:  You can play a card to explore before your free explore - it just takes away your free explore.

 

Nightfind

[ArchSenex]

Actually, that first thread says the opposite, based on the phrasing of the rule, but is then clarified to be the opposite of that, without actually changing the errata.

 

The problem stems from the fact that the word MUST is problematic

 

"You may explore your location once each turn without playing a card that allows you to explore; this must be your first exploration for the turn."

 

So.. if this is the rule, then if you play another card to gain an extra explore (thereby forgoing your free explore) then you have actually violated that rule as soon as you have taken it.  The reason for it is that by doing this, the first exploration for the turn is NOT exploring the location without playing a card that allows you to explore (since you played the card and created a paradox).  The rule that would make this work is actually "this MAY ONLY be your first exploration for the turn."

 

 

Now yes, further on, Mike says "Another way to think of this is "You can only have one exploration at a time." Since you already have a first exploration pending, if you make another one happen, you still only have one." but that isn't another way of thinking about it.  That's actually a completely different way of thinking about it.

 

 

Ultimately, what this really showcases is that the card game is too complex to easily boil down to a simple set of rules.  Take a look at Magic, which had so many card interactions that they blasted entire card types out of the universe to try and simplify things up.  "Opponent Loses Next Turn."

 

Either way, however Obsidian chooses to implement it, the main thing is this:  Detect Magic is not an explore, it's an encounter, and at least for now you can't play allies for extra explores until you take your built in.

 

Frankly, I'm amazed people aren't complaining more about the way they've implemented blessing dice, instead of this thread.

[Nightfind]

I disagree with your interpretation of the rule.   The MUST part only applies if you want to use the free explore.  If you don't want to use the free explore, then you violate no rule.

 

The first part of the rule:  You MAY explore your location once each turn without playing a card that allows you to explore

   - it says you MAY explore your location once per turn free - not have to

   - If I chose not to use the free explore, I do not need to abide by any conditions related to the free explore

 

If I choose to use the free explore, now I must abide by:  this MUST be your first exploration for the turn

 

Even Mike mentions you can use an Ally before your free explore, it just forfeits your free explore because it would not be your first explore of the turn anymore:

Quote:  If you begin your explore step by playing a Night Watch, you've just terminated the possibility of getting that "first" exploration.

 

Nightfind

Edited June 14, 2016 by Nightfind