[CLASS BUILD] The Witch Doctor (mid-ranged dps monk disabler)

[dgray62]

Boeroer, do you know if crits are calculated properly with Long Pain strikes? I ask because they do not seem to have any effect on damage in regular unarmed combat. If so, I imagine in would be worth siding with the Doemenels to get the Merciless Hand talent, as the 1.3x bonus would really be a big boost. If not, I suppose it would be best to side with one of the other factions.

[peddroelm]

Boeroer, do you know if crits are calculated properly with Long Pain strikes? I ask because they do not seem to have any effect on damage in regular unarmed combat. If so, I imagine in would be worth siding with the Doemenels to get the Merciless Hand talent, as the 1.3x bonus would really be a big boost. If not, I suppose it would be best to side with one of the other factions.

crits ARE calculated "properly" for both unarmed combat and also for TLP.

However they are much much more effective with TLP because of the enormous base damage difference between TLP and unarmed combat  at high character levels. 

 

TLP base damage scales exponentially with character level while unarmed base damage doesn't scale at all.

Edited January 27, 2017 by peddroelm

[dgray62]

Thanks for the helpful reply. I see that boosts to the crit damage multiplier would be helpful for monk builds using TLP.

[Boeroer]

Yes, Doemenel would be the best faction for this build I guess. 

 

Unarmed crits get calculated properly, it's just that the small base damage is taken into account and NOT the bonus of Novice's or Transcandent Suffering. Those bonuses get added AFTER the crit damage got calculated with the whimpy base damage. That's the case why crits don't do a lot of damage compared to hits. It's the same with things like Savage Attack, Weapon Spec. & Mastery and all other +x% dmg mods. So you shouldn't waste points on those when you are using Transcendent or Novice's Suffering all the time. Better to go for speed and/or lashes instead (Lightnig Strikes, Turning Wheel, Blood Testment Gloves or Gauntlets of Swift Action and so on).

 

But on the other hand, this is also true for grazes: they do nearly the same damage as hits or crits would do. So, it's kind of balanced. You can use this for gimmicky build - like a char with 3 Perception or so - because it doesn't matter that much if you hit or graze.

 

The only thing that raises the bonus damage of Novice's and Trancendent Suffering is might. So, as a fist fighter you want to have very high MIG - but you don't need that much PER.

 

TLP however are considered summoned weapons and therefore work like all the other weapons, not like Transcendent Suffering. Because their (already high) base damage scales with levels, all +x% dmg mods work really well with them. That's why I suggested the hater talents and also items which raise ranged damage. Crits work like all other +x% dmg mods, so the same is true for them as well.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Boeroer. The monk is one of my favorite classes, and I had noticed that for unarmed attacks there was little difference between grazes, hits and crits damage-wise, but I did not understand the reason for this. Given the fact that this is not the case with TLF, I see that crit boosting talents and items would be worth it. With that in mind, I was wondering why you recommend the Echoing Misery boots. Is Ray of Pain particularly good? Might  Glanfathan Stalking boots be better for this build?

[Boeroer]

Erm... now that you said that I really wonder why I wrote Echoing Misery. Maybe it's a leftover from another build I was doing before. I usually take the same text file and edit it before posting. Have to check that.

[Boeroer]

Ah - now I remember: it's because of the +15 defense bonus agaist disengagement attacks when you break engagement. Pretty handy when you want to gain some wounds in melee and then retreat. The beam is just a bonus.

[zeldagaiden]

Does berzerker belt work with sanguine plate on a barbarian?

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Unless a patch changed it, as of six months ago no. Sanguine plate frenzy is a different ability and thus doesn't benefit from berserker belt, greater frenzy, or anything else that buffs standard frenzy.

[zeldagaiden]

Sad, was thinking of dumping frenzy alltogether.... invested 2 points on the skill and it takes too damn long to cast

[zeldagaiden]

Oh crap, i'm posting on the wrong thread

[dgray62]

Ah - now I remember: it's because of the +15 defense bonus agaist disengagement attacks when you break engagement. Pretty handy when you want to gain some wounds in melee and then retreat. The beam is just a bonus.

 

Thanks, I've found those boots but never used them. Looks like they're worth a try, given the fact that the sandals don't work with TLF.

[Boeroer]

Right. But other boots are also great. For example Fenwalkers or Boots of Stability.

[dgray62]

Boeroer, I started an MC using this build a few days ago, and just reached level 7. I must say I am really impressed by its power. I took 10 DEX rather than 16, because I am not comfortable with such a low RES. TLF hits are powerful, and quite rapid too, despite the lower DEX, especially when swift strikes and the mourning gloves are activated. So far this has been one of my favorite characters. Thanks!

[Boeroer]

Cool! Glad you have fun with it.

 

By the way: do Mourning Gloves' haste effect and Swift Strikes stack now? The gloves' effect used to get suppressed in the past. Maybe they fixed this (which would be awesome).

Edited February 1, 2017 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Cool! Glad you have fun with it.

 

By the way: do Mourning Gloves' haste effect and Swift Strikes stack now? The gloves' effect used to get suppressed in the past. Maybe they fixed this (which would be awesome).

 

I hadn't noticed the gloves being suppressed, but I see that you are right; Anger is suppressed by Swift Strikes. So I guess I was only getting the 20% boost from Swift Strikes, and not the 30% stacked speed boost. The speed is still impressive nonetheless. But I guess that I'll probably end up using the Blood Testament gauntlets, when I get them. 

[Boeroer]

Mourning Gloves can still give you lots of interrupt power, endurance per kill and so on. They are still a very good pick. And the 10% speed will kick in as soon as Swift Strikes runs out.

 

Blood Testament are quite good but come so late.

 

If you can find Gauntlets of Swift Action then I'd take those. They stack with Swift Strikes.

 

Also nice: Archer's Gloves as long as you don't have the Cloak of the Frozen Hunt yet.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Thanks for the tips, Boeroer. I will keep using Mourning Gloves until I find Gauntlets of Swift Action or get Blood Testament. I'm glad to hear that the former's speed bonus stacks with Swift Strikes. One nice thing about Mourning Gloves is this character gets many kills, and thus activates the Mourning Gloves in almost every battle. He doesn't always get wounds, however, so the Mourning Gloves 10% bonus has been more reliable for me than Swift Strike's 20% bonus.

[QuiteGoneJin]

As a side note if you dont mind respeccing in your games starting with a lower int and higher perc/resolve isnt a bad idea early game before you get the long pain. 

 

erm, whats 'TLF' btw?

[Boeroer]

He meant the Long Pain I presume, but had had "the Long Fists" in mind for a short momemt.

[dgray62]

Yes, I did mean "the long pain"/TLP, but mistyped it as TLF. Thanks for the correction, Boeroer.

[dgray62]

I have really enjoyed playing this build. However, as I was reluctant to dump RES get too low I dropped DEX to 10 and INT to 17 in order to bring RES up to 10. However, having played this character for awhile I question the wisdom of doing this. I have noticed that it takes him quite some time to activate abilities, such as TLP. Clearly, boosting DEX would alleviate this. How badly does this build get interrupted with RES set at 3? Personally, I do not want to have to buff him in every battle. Also, I was under the impression (perhaps incorrectly?) that in Russetwood you need to pass a RES 16 check to get the silver arrow from the wounded wolf without killing it, which also helps with the Hunter's Favor quest. Is it possible to get the Silver Arrow without killing the wolf if you dump RES?

[Boeroer]

Without items, spells or potions which help with concentration, he will get interrupted badly when he gets attacked by more than one or two enemies. For example, a group of wichts could perma-interrupt him.

But usually I didn't put this build into the front line but used it as a flanker. You will always catch some wounds while running around. And when I got some, I retreated and fired TLP. Thus RES was very unimportant for me. All depends how you play him I guess. DEX 10 doesn't sound too bad though.

 

No idea about the wolf, sorry.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Thanks, Boeroer. I suppose if I dumped RES I'd need help with concentration for the tough fights. BTW, I'm playing this character with two ciphers using your Dichotomous Soulbenders build, and having loads of fun. As you pointed out, there's great synergy between monks or monk-like Novice's Suffering builds and cipher powers.

[kungapa]

Would Glittering Gloves work with this? That might be a nice bonus on top of the other status modifiers.