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My Evil Pacifist Solo Cipher has just finished walking the Path of the Damned...

solo cipher path of the damned PotD relative pacifism

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#1
Kirinyale

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...And I have to say it was quite an interesting experience! :) I also went for "No Rest for the Pro", and it didn't make the game all that much harder now that there's no travel fatigue anymore. And I managed to legitimately miss "Zero Knockouts" achievement in a solo run, which, I guess, should be an achievement in its own right. :D

 

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Just for clarity: I was playing without Trial of Iron (I don't believe in legitimate triple-crown-solo anyway) and without Expert mode (finished on Expert my first time, but decided to enable spell area indicators and info on dialogue checks for the second).

With a final official kill count of 140, I've successfully finished most of the side quests in the base game (didn't touch the expansions yet, except for some stronghold stuff, but not all of it). A few exceptions (besides party members' quests, of course) are:
- Endless Paths of Od Nua. I've only reached level 6, and consciously ignored some heavily guarded stuff on previous levels. I did kill that ogre chieftain on level 3, though.
- Divine quests of Galawain and Berath (first could be done without much kills due to a bug, but I decided not to, and second requires clearing out Etik Nol, which is totally not a pacifist thing to do).
- Clandestine Cargo - I could do it kill-free with a Rite of Walking Shadows, but it wasn't worth spending such a rare scroll for such a useless reward. Ignoring it (and, eventually, failing due to destruction of the Sanitarium) turned out to be the right decision: I really needed all these stealth rites later.

By far, the most interesting find of this playthrough was the fact that this game does have almost everything needed for a "pure pacifist" run with a non-rogue class, even if the
developers probably think different. :) My total number of story kills is 14. That is, 11 in the very first location (too much, I know, but I guess I was a little
dumb when I started), and 3 in the final battle with Thaos. Everything in between is strictly optional, as far as the kill counter is concerned. So, after reading about the 12-kill run with a rogue elsewhere, I think that the real minimum would be 7.

However, getting clean stats globally would be tricky - perhaps still possible without rogue's shadowing beyond, but I can't be 100% sure. For example, there isn't much XP to get in Chapter 1 unless you finish Raedric's hold (which isn't doable without a single kill), and you really need that XP to up your stealth. And, even if you manage that, I'm not sure a pure pacifist could do Cliaban Rilag without all the extra XP for non-pacifist side quests: for the last guarded door in this dungeon, you need stealth 15 + mechanics 8, or, more realistically, stealth 12 + mechanics 8 + lore 4 + a single rite of walking shadows.

Me? I played as a pure pacifist story-wise (refusing to kill anything the game so often tried to trick me into killing just to progress), but wasn't aiming to do my second playthrough super-boring, so I did kill for side-quest XP when I had to - and, in a few cases, when I wanted to, which amounts to around 10 extra kills out of these 140. And, of course, there's that three-tusk staelgar leader whom I poisoned via dialogue without raising the kill count...

***

And now, some rant...

1) Athletics and survival still look totally useless, despite their new mechanics. Not sure what was the point of changing them. I mean, high athletics is now equal to 1 extra healing potion per encounter? Great, but who needs that? Survival bonuses look nice... in theory... but in practice, they are just too weak to justify spending so much skill points. Of course, I'm judging from a solo run perspective, so perhaps I'm missing some great tactical opportunities for a normal party...

2) Who the hell decided that limiting item summons to 20 seconds was a good idea?! They are already limited to 1 summon per rest, so you basically killed off a game feature. As if there's not enough dumb "balancing" limits taking the fun out of the game already. This was a huge disappointment and a horrible thing to do with a patch, I never expected to come back to something like this. Although I did find a lot of use for summons in my pacifist schemes, but that's about everything they are good for now.

3) I would very much like it if some future Obsidian RPG showed a little more respect for stealth characters. Namely, I hate proximity scripts which force me out of stealth for a "very important" dialogue before I am technically detected. And I absolutely hate that convenience script on stairs in Heritage Hill tower! Ruining my stealth just to ask if I want to go to the second floor, or to the first floor? Yeah, great idea, great time saver. Especially when there's a bunch of hungry undead waiting for me on both floors, just near the stairs. Thanks devs, I really needed that. Twice. Not that it helped you much in tricking me out of my pacifism... ;)

4) A little less underestimation would be nice too. Remember those looters under Madhmr bridge? I actually sneaked around their 2 lookouts, only to find the rest accusing me of killing them because they "heard fighting". So I just killed them all. That was also the biggest exception to my pacifism, because, technically, I didn't have to, but they didn't give my cruel character any good reason to spare them, and Peregund promised reward...

5) I totally expected the final fight to be tricky on solo path of the damned, but I didn't expect it to be impossible without using a horrible (and, thankfully, still unpatched) exploit. Looks like it is. :( Cipher is definitely not a bad solo class, but totally helpless against Thaos' will stats and extra resists. My only chance came from re-rolling the stats in a tavern (that was the second time I had to do this in this run, with first being before Cliaban Rilag due to a lack of mechanics) and re-making my cipher into a stupid tank with super-high endurance, deflection and accuracy. Oh, and that exploit too, otherwise I don't think my kiting skills would be enough still. :(

I do remember someone complaining about Thaos being too vulnerable to paralyse-lock in original game, so I assume this was rebalanced with a later patch. Good call perhaps, but still not a good idea to lock ciphers out of the party completely. Perhaps a few skills/talents/items/drugs with good spell-accuracy buffs on self would help. Of course, if anyone knows how to kill Thaos with a solo 12 lvl cipher on Path of the Damned without any dirty tricks, I'd be very interested to hear all about it.


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#2
Baron Pampa

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I'm not sure if you consider kiting to be a dirty trick, but Harpagornis killed Thaos at level 1;)



#3
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...And I have to say it was quite an interesting experience! :) I also went for "No Rest for the Pro", and it didn't make the game all that much harder now that there's no travel fatigue anymore. And I managed to legitimately miss "Zero Knockouts" achievement in a solo run, which, I guess, should be an achievement in its own right. :D

I am not even trying for the Zero Knockouts achievement anymore, if i want it i can simply go for a speedrun on a lower difficulty, i am playing solo chanter all the time and i always have summons out, so i always get knocked out - in some fights its even a good strategy for me :D

 

 

Just for clarity: I was playing without Trial of Iron (I don't believe in legitimate triple-crown-solo anyway) and without Expert mode (finished on Expert my first time, but decided to enable spell area indicators and info on dialogue checks for the second).

 

 

triple crown solo is easy, really - i did it in vanilla, i told a streamer how to do it and he did it (he had one stuck bug when he was fighting the shadow drake- he would have killed the drake but the bug was endless gifht too he used alt+f4 the moment he saw the bug) on stream - i saw it all, so - jeah, it was easy in vanilla and now its even easier (you can simply grab good items from wm)

 

 

With a final official kill count of 140, I've successfully finished most of the side quests in the base game

 

Gratz!

 

 

1) Athletics and survival still look totally useless, despite their new mechanics. Not sure what was the point of changing them. I mean, high athletics is now equal to 1 extra healing potion per encounter? Great, but who needs that? Survival bonuses look nice... in theory... but in practice, they are just too weak to justify spending so much skill points. Of course, I'm judging from a solo run perspective, so perhaps I'm missing some great tactical opportunities for a normal party...

 

I am playing without Items at the moment, athletics looks a bit better to me, however i dont know - if i saw right athletics heal is faster... but i dont use it.

Survival is OP, really really OP, the higher movementspeed allows for "no boots of speed" kiting and it should be stackable with the boots... and the 15 ACC is really helpfull too - thats 15 perception with high survival O_o

 

 

2) Who the hell decided that limiting item summons to 20 seconds was a good idea?! They are already limited to 1 summon per rest, so you basically killed off a game feature. As if there's not enough dumb "balancing" limits taking the fun out of the game already. This was a huge disappointment and a horrible thing to do with a patch, I never expected to come back to something like this. Although I did find a lot of use for summons in my pacifist schemes, but that's about everything they are good for now.

 

It was a really good idea! It was much too easy with long Figurines, the class didnt matter in act 2 at all - no matter which class i played, the figurines did so much more than my character ->useless, too strong. And they are sooo usefull even now, they are soo strong.

 

3) I would very much like it if some future Obsidian RPG showed a little more respect for stealth characters. Namely, I hate proximity scripts which force me out of stealth for a "very important" dialogue before I am technically detected. And I absolutely hate that convenience script on stairs in Heritage Hill tower! Ruining my stealth just to ask if I want to go to the second floor, or to the first floor? Yeah, great idea, great time saver. Especially when there's a bunch of hungry undead waiting for me on both floors, just near the stairs. Thanks devs, I really needed that. Twice. Not that it helped you much in tricking me out of my pacifism... ;)

 

This, SO MUCH THIS!

 

 

4) A little less underestimation would be nice too. Remember those looters under Madhmr bridge? I actually sneaked around their 2 lookouts, only to find the rest accusing me of killing them because they "heard fighting". So I just killed them all. That was also the biggest exception to my pacifism, because, technically, I didn't have to, but they didn't give my cruel character any good reason to spare them, and Peregund promised reward...

 

You ever went directly to Raedric? You can always mention the dead wife - you never saw her but you can...
 

 

5) I totally expected the final fight to be tricky on solo path of the damned, but I didn't expect it to be impossible without using a horrible (and, thankfully, still unpatched) exploit. Looks like it is. :( Cipher is definitely not a bad solo class, but totally helpless against Thaos' will stats and extra resists. My only chance came from re-rolling the stats in a tavern (that was the second time I had to do this in this run, with first being before Cliaban Rilag due to a lack of mechanics) and re-making my cipher into a stupid tank with super-high endurance, deflection and accuracy. Oh, and that exploit too, otherwise I don't think my kiting skills would be enough still. :(

 

My solo Cipher didnt have the right spells and he either had no potions or only 4 item slots (was in vanilla, with endless figurine duration) i tried it for a few hours in all - i didnt manage it - but i find the thaos fight not bad... if they could only fix the bugs thaos has -.-



#4
Raven Darkholme

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Athletics is useseless but Survival?

Those resting bonuses are vicious.



#5
Kirinyale

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Details on how I dealt with each of the story challenges (hope it will help someone achieve that perfect 7-kill run some day):

1) Caravan camp. I killed everything (2 wolves and 9 Glanfathans). Not much pacifism there, although I should have known better.

2) Cilant Lis. Sneaked around everything (started with 2 stealth as Orlan Cipher Dissident), including the treasure cache (for some strange reason, slime inside attacks 2 slimes outside, so you can easily loot the chest while they are dealing with each other). Had to "sacrifice" Calisca to get past the last spiders without a fight ("you must gather your party before venturing forth"). Oh well, she would die in a few seconds anyway...

3) Caed Nua courtyard. Pure stealth. 6 is enough, no special tricks.

4) Caed Nua Great Hall. Buy Bronze Horn Figurine before going there. Sticking to the left side, 6 stealth is enough to reach the point where script dialogue with the throne triggers. When it ends, doors open, and you are in battle. Just summon animat to keep these phantoms busy and run left to the stairs, you'll be fine.

5) Caed Nua dungeons. Pure stealth, no special tricks, although you'll have to avoid speaking to the ghost, otherwise you'll get out of stealth and attract some spiders.

6) Paths of Od Nua, level 1. Maerwald is quite tough, but who said you need to fight him yourself? Use a Fleet Feet potion to lure him out, then lure out some spiders and beetles from the other rooms and watch them fight each other - from a safe distance of course. Most probably it will end with Maerwald killing most of the monsters and then getting killed by the last 1 or 2 beetles. This will also likely leave the chest with the boots of stealth unguarded, which is great. If you are feeling especially mischievous, you can repeat the same trick with the looters slightly deeper on this level (they don't stand much chance against beetles). Oh, and don't forget the pesky xaurips - beetles will gladly eat them too if given the chance. Eventually, you'll be able to explore the whole level without any kills (I even got as far as level 5 without kills after upping my stealth a bit more).

 

7) Woedica's Temple. Easily done in disguise with Woedica's Hood, found on a body in catacombs just before (need stealth for that, obviously).

8 ) Sanitarium. Summon three wood beetles from Oaken Scarab Figurine for distraction, drink Fleet Feet, run for it. That's about it.

9) Heritage Hill. Stealth 10 is enough for the most part, but you'll also need a lot of summons for distraction:
- 2 single summons (e.g. animat + beagle dog from Cloak of the Fox and Hunter) to go in and out of Icantha's house (also possible with a rite of walking shadows, but you DON'T want to waste it now).
- 2 times x 3 wood beetle summons to run from the undead mob on second floor when descending from the tower (due to stairs script ruining stealth). Tricky, but possible. It also means extra rests to replenish Oaken Scarab Figurine (I rested twice just for Heritage Hill).

10) Cliaban Rilag. As I said before, you need stealth 12 (+2 hedge maze, +2 boots of stealth or footpad's hood, +1 Iquali's boon), mechanics 8 and lore 4 for this. And a rite of walking shadows. Use the rite just before the slimes in east corridor (guarding the door to the optional armory) and run for it as fast as you can. Once on the second floor, don't stop and keep running straight through the first locked door and to another leading to the machine room back on level 1. If you don't waste time, your rite will expire just after you pass that last door and get into safety. It's NOT EASY, but possible. 8 mechanics is needed exactly for opening that last door: high enough stealth can get you to the key, but you won't escape without a fight (even with summons). At least I couldn't. :) A rogue with Shadowing Beyond probably wouldn't have any trouble here at all.

Of course, you'll also need to escape the dungeon via the west corridor after swimming through the underwater passage. 12 stealth is not enough here, so another animat distraction is in order.

11) Leaden Key ambush in Stormwall Gorge. Well, everyone knows this fight is optional with the right dispositions (I avoided it in my first run), but this time, I didn't have neither Benevolent=2, nor Honest=2, so they attacked, and I had to run around on Fleet Feet, eventually luring them all to their "accidental" death in the pungent embrace of some slimes and mushrooms. :)

12) Divine quests. Hylea and Rymrgand are easily doable with good stealth and no special tricks.

13) Burial Isle. Can be explored fully with stealth 16. In my final (successful) attempt at Thaos, I changed rest and brothel bonuses to something else, so I only had 13, and had to use another rite of walking shadows to get past the last group of ghosts. With 16, you can even stealth into that shortcut tunnel, but it will give you an injury, so why bother. BTW, I'm not sure what exactly does it check - dexterity and constitution don't seem to work (despite CON=17 being mentioned in some guide I looked up), perhaps it's athletics now?

14) Breith Eaman. The only problem is the animats guarding both doors leading to the room where we speak to Iowara. Even 16+3 isn't enough to get past them clean, so I used 13+3 (there goes last of the 3 rites of walking shadows) to get as close to the door (I picked the north-west one) as possible, and then, as you'd expect, the good old animat distraction trick (or even better, an adra beetle - it will live longer). :) It's still a bit hard there, doesn't always work well, but it works after 3 or 4 attempts. And these guards don't even detect you again after you get script-teleported to the center of the room for the dialogue.

15) Sun-in-Shadow. Easily done with stealth 13, except some optional bonus areas near the end. Thank gods, shadow drake spawns don't drag you out of stealth, and the second spawn even happens in the immediate vicinity of the exit, so, if you are in stealth, the game allows you to just leave instantly without pathing to it.

16) Thaos. Fight him. Such a shame that there's no other option, my char wouldn't really mind joining his cause... :)
 


Edited by Kirinyale, 30 March 2016 - 05:09 AM.

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#6
Kirinyale

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I'm not sure if you consider kiting to be a dirty trick, but Harpagornis killed Thaos at level 1;)

That must be some skill! O.o Is there a video?

I don't consider abusing base game mechanics and AI "dirty" in such runs for such games, but the trick I've used (not invented by me - thanks youtube) involved alt+tabbing to prevent statues from attacking me right away, so that certainly does qualify as "dirty" in my book. I really wish I could do without it, but at the moment, despite all the re-trains and buffs, it looked like the only option which turned this encounter into a competitive battle instead of a quick slaughter. :)

 

i am playing solo chanter all the time and i always have summons out, so i always get knocked out - in some fights its even a good strategy for me :D

Wow, I didn't even realise summons could prevent death on knockout... Anyway, chanter isn't an option for me anymore: I played chanter the first time. :)

 

 

Survival is OP, really really OP, the higher movementspeed allows for "no boots of speed" kiting and it should be stackable with the boots...

How much survival do you need to get more than +1 movement speed (while boots of speed give +3)?..

 

 

and the 15 ACC is really helpfull too

If only there was an accuracy bonus against kith to help me with Thaos, perhaps I would agree...

 

 

It was a really good idea! It was much too easy with long Figurines, the class didnt matter in act 2 at all - no matter which class i played, the figurines did so much more than my character ->useless, too strong. And they are sooo usefull even now, they are soo strong.

Maybe I'm being dumb, but I don't see how they are strong when they only have 20 seconds to live! I've never seen a summon kill anything on PotD, they are extremely weak and fragile against all those regenerating HP sacks, and the most they can do is distracting the enemies for a few seconds while I run away. Adra beetle is not bad though, but when I tried to use it for an actual battle (with Leyra), most of the time I even had trouble using both of its ability casts before it expired (not to mention it missed like hell).

 

Maybe unlimited summons were too easy if you abused them, but 20 seconds is absolutely unreasonable (especially with the exorbitant prices you pay for these items). 100-120 seconds would be much better for one-shot item summons, better save ridiculous limits for chanter summons which you can repeat each encounter...

 

 

You ever went directly to Raedric? You can always mention the dead wife - you never saw her but you can...

Yeah, there are always minor immersion breakers like this, so I'd really wish someone to start paying attention to them. Also, when I jumped into the pit on Burial Isle, I had the option to reach for a companion and find a steady hand, despite going solo. That was creepy. :D But what a laugh I had when Thaos said "Indeed, you must care little for obedience, judging by the company you keep"! I never knew he was so good at sarcasm.


Edited by Kirinyale, 29 March 2016 - 10:33 AM.


#7
Reent

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Why SHOULD the Figurine kill anything in POTD??? Thats what you are for - your weapon only increases your damage, it doesnt do the job for you; its the same with the figurines, if they could kill encounters on their own - thats simply too strong, i used them in every single fight, there was no fight i didnt use them - that sums my chanter game up quite nicely, he has summons but i rather use figurines - thats how good they are.

Maybe they will kill one enemy, maybe they wont - but they will give you time to do your job... thats extremely huge.

 

 

Yeah, there are always minor immersion breakers like this

 

Assassins attacking you, you run to the Guards, they simply ignore assassins attacking you openly and walk past you - THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL RPG??????????????

 

How much survival do you need to get more than +1 movement speed (while boots of speed give +3)?..

9 survival for +2, 15 for +3, +2 with talent is enough for most things, as chanter i can use speed chant - thats enough for everything but dragons and bugs.

 

If only there was an accuracy bonus against kith to help me with Thaos, perhaps I would agree...

 

Use against Vessels, so you kill the 2 guards faster - and one fight doesnt make survival bad WTF - you can use speed too.

 

I don't consider abusing base game mechanics and AI "dirty" in such runs for such games, but the trick I've used (not invented by me - thanks youtube) involved alt+tabbing to prevent statues from attacking me right away

 

The need to use this trick is extremely bad game design, there is at least one more of those i can think of (the xaurip skirmisher and the broken bridge - travel there from the wrong direction and dont react fast enough - GG and load again), but its simply a bug - its not abuse you use, its a bug that they havent fixed since the start - if they tell me anything else they **************************** (better to not write it)

 

That must be some skill! O.o Is there a video?

No, but he wrote a detailed description how he did it and uploaded the save so you can try it too - main parts: you need enough speed to kite them, you have to use figurines to get thaos out of casting (he will stop casting if figurines die while he targets them with spells (something like that), he will try to "tag" you, if he does he starts casting again - if not... he just runs)

I tried it 3 times (first 2 times i didnt use alt+tab and was too slow with figurines and too sloppy so i died instantly) and the 3rd time i managed to survive gaining distance, summoned 2 figurines and started kiting then - thaos stopped casting and i could have done it in quite some time but stopped, just wanted to see how hard it is to get the situation where you can win...



#8
Kirinyale

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Why SHOULD the Figurine kill anything in POTD???

On PotD, it shouldn't. :) But isn't the 20 second limit for all difficulties? It's not a fast thing to check, so I don't really know yet. And on easy/normal, summons should at least be fun. 20 seconds isn't fun. :)

 

Also, on solo it takes away these super-precious quickslots. For the same reason, I never used damage-spell scrolls: they are too weak on PotD to be of any real use compared to the potions (especially Infuse with Vital Essence when you are going for No Rest for the Pro).

 

Assassins attacking you, you run to the Guards, they simply ignore assassins attacking you openly and walk past you - THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL RPG??????????????

Oh, don't even get me started. You know how I killed 5 harrassing thugs in the streets for the brothel quest??? I squeezed between the 2 innocent bystanders nearby and shot these sad fools with a scepter until they were dead. None of them ever figured out how to get past these unyielding bystanders. ;) Well, one thug had a bow at least, but I just made sure he was the primary target for my whisper of treason...

 

 

9 survival for +2, 15 for +3, +2 with talent is enough for most things, as chanter i can use speed chant - thats enough for everything but dragons and bugs.

Ok then, I guess it's viable for a combat-heavy solo run (you won't need stealth, so why not trade it for survival). Athletics is still sad though, isn't it?

 

 

Use against Vessels, so you kill the 2 guards faster

Yes, I thought of it - might be useful if you fight all three at the same time like it was intended. Still, spell accuracy boost to charm/dominate Thaos reliably would be so much more useful...
Actually, with my method, I was lucky to have Thaos kneel and get invulnerable in a narrow place. After this, exploiting guards' glitchy AI was easy - they were just stuck there, trying to go through him while I shot them slowly with enchanted Persistence bow.

 

 

the xaurip skirmisher and the broken bridge - travel there from the wrong direction and dont react fast enough - GG and load again

Yes, that xaurip was a bit irritating, but I've had enough stealth by then, and took a habit of always going into stealth before travelling. :) Using alt+tab auto-pause to travel a few steps away from the place you are not even supposed to be able to leave before the cutscene, however, is a different thing altogether.

 

By the way, how many more patches do they need to fix auto-pause on combat and enemy detection? It's not working half of the time (namely, just after loading, and after some cutscenes), which is driving me nuts. If there is a problem with fixing it, perhaps they could just add another option to always start paused after loading a saved game...

 

UPD: I just realized that perhaps I didn't describe what I did clear enough. I didn't just alt+tab to get auto-pause at the beginning of the battle. I did it before the dialogue with Thaos, which gave me an extra half-second to move 2 steps closer to him before the dialogue. Which, in turn, prevented the statues from attacking me at all (unless I got closer, or waited long enough for Thaos to do it while I'm still nearby). So, basically, I fought these 3 enemies 1 by 1, which is definitely not the intended way of handling this battle.

 

No, but he wrote a detailed description how he did it and uploaded the save so you can try it too - main parts: you need enough speed to kite them, you have to use figurines to get thaos out of casting (he will stop casting if figurines die while he targets them with spells (something like that), he will try to "tag" you, if he does he starts casting again - if not... he just runs)

I tried it 3 times (first 2 times i didnt use alt+tab and was too slow with figurines and too sloppy so i died instantly) and the 3rd time i managed to survive gaining distance, summoned 2 figurines and started kiting then - thaos stopped casting and i could have done it in quite some time but stopped, just wanted to see how hard it is to get the situation where you can win...

That's insane. :) I figured out the "tagging" trick myself when I finished him in the last stage of the battle, it made it much easier once the statues weren't around.

 

But really, the only spell you need to worry about is "cleansing flame" - everything else is either useless dominate which removes itself in a second since you are solo, or area-effect spells which are extremely easy to dodge with auto-pause on spell cast by enemy. Cleansing flame, however, was the biggest reason for me to re-train, since I wanted as much deflection as possible, and even then it sometimes grazed me (it's not critical if you have lots of constitution, but my original build had it very low).

Also, I thought only one figurine can be summoned at a time? I remember trying to use two once, and the game just didn't allow me to... was it a glitch?

And I am still confused about how to actually hit Thaos with a lvl 1 char on PotD. You'd need a pretty decent accuracy for that...


Edited by Kirinyale, 29 March 2016 - 11:48 AM.


#9
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But really, the only spell you need to worry about is "cleansing flame" - everything else is either useless dominate which removes itself in a second since you are solo, or area-effect spells which are extremely easy to dodge with auto-pause on spell cast by enemy. Cleansing flame, however, was the biggest reason for me to re-train, since I wanted as much deflection as possible, and even then it sometimes grazed me (it's not critical if you have lots of constitution, but my original build had it very low).

Also, I thought only one figurine can be summoned at a time? I remember trying to use two once, and the game just didn't allow me to... was it a glitch?

And I am still confused about how to actually hit Thaos with a lvl 1 char on PotD. You'd need a pretty decent accuracy for that...

62 ACC or something was the acc, it was enough to graze sometimes :D

And i used 2 figurines - however i didnt use them at the same time, i waited till the first summons were dead.

 

And cleansing flame is just... so damn "WTF", the enemies dont have the same problem, but for lvl 12 characters that dont do everything they can do to survive - its one hit kill -.-



#10
Kirinyale

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Ah, I also forgot that Thaos' dominate isn't completely useless for him: it prevented me from using Wizard's Double potion, which doesn't care if the hit you just took went through deflection or anything else (even a fear aura tick can disable it). Since insta-losing deflection bonus just before an incoming cleansing flame was too risky for my liking (especially with the way how characters still constantly ignore my commands to drink a potion), I eventually decided to stick with Llengrath Displaced Image. Also, +5 bonus from Hearth Harvest was a very pleasant detail.



#11
Marceror

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...it didn't make the game all that much harder now that there's no travel fatigue anymore.

 

Really? Why in the world was travel fatigue removed? Because someone "realized" walking long distances doesn't make one tired?


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#12
Kirinyale

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...it didn't make the game all that much harder now that there's no travel fatigue anymore.

 

Really? Why in the world was travel fatigue removed? Because someone "realized" walking long distances doesn't make one tired?

 

No idea, really. :) I didn't watch this game's updates at all since I first finished it just after release, so all these changes were kinda big surprise for me. I even thought it's a glitch at first (when I realized that my character just never gets tired except after climbing a wall), but then found confirmation that it was a patch. Guess someone decided that it was too much trouble travelling back and forth between Caed Nua and the cities otherwise? It was a bit irritating, sure, but they could have just added another expert-mode controlled switch for people who don't want to manage their travels properly, instead of taking most of the challenge out of an existing achievement.



#13
the_dog_days

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...it didn't make the game all that much harder now that there's no travel fatigue anymore.

Really? Why in the world was travel fatigue removed? Because someone "realized" walking long distances doesn't make one tired?
No idea, really. :) I didn't watch this game's updates at all since I first finished it just after release, so all these changes were kinda big surprise for me. I even thought it's a glitch at first (when I realized that my character just never gets tired except after climbing a wall), but then found confirmation that it was a patch. Guess someone decided that it was too much trouble travelling back and forth between Caed Nua and the cities otherwise? It was a bit irritating, sure, but they could have just added another expert-mode controlled switch for people who don't want to manage their travels properly, instead of taking most of the challenge out of an existing achievement.

If I were to guess, the adjustment to athletics is probably a response to the added 'content' to the stronghold (to it more like the one in DAI, which I hated because it forced me to travel back and forth between the stronghold and the real game rather than just letting me play the real game).

Edited by the_dog_days, 29 March 2016 - 01:52 PM.


#14
Reent

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With only 2 Camping sets its rather stupid to make the player rest right after he moved - and why the heck wouldnt he rest while travelling? He should be able to get camping supply on the way or no one could travel.


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#15
Marceror

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Yeah, I suppose I can see the logic, but this didn't bother me in the slightest after the game was initially released. I just made sure to pump athletics a bit, because, folks who are running all over the continent on foot probably need to be fairly athletic. But uh oh, I guess I'm letting my grognardic leanings be revealed.



#16
rusokrd

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3) I would very much like it if some future Obsidian RPG showed a little more respect for stealth characters. Namely, I hate proximity scripts which force me out of stealth for a "very important" dialogue before I am technically detected. And I absolutely hate that convenience script on stairs in Heritage Hill tower! Ruining my stealth just to ask if I want to go to the second floor, or to the first floor? Yeah, great idea, great time saver. Especially when there's a bunch of hungry undead waiting for me on both floors, just near the stairs. Thanks devs, I really needed that. Twice. Not that it helped you much in tricking me out of my pacifism... ;)

 

4) Caed Nua Great Hall. Buy Bronze Horn Figurine before going there. Sticking to the left side, 6 stealth is enough to reach the point where script dialogue with the throne triggers. When it ends, doors open, and you are in battle. Just summon animat to keep these phantoms busy and run left to the stairs, you'll be fine.

 

Oh, thanks God, Man! You've made my day! Last night my chair was burnt in attempts to sneak arround this hall. A very important dialogue made my spiritshift druid out of stealth and then phantoms never released me from stun, again and again and again ... So, thanks for a tips!



#17
Kirinyale

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You are welcome! So, if you are going for stealth, you'll be using this trick a lot, again and again, so be sure to buy every figurine you see on sale (and other summoning items like the cloak of the fox and hunter)... Unless you are ok with resting every time you need a summon, of course, and even then, there are places where you'd better have more than 1. :)

 

In fact, about halfway through the game, I started feeling like one of these fairy tale girls who have to distract their pursuer by throwing random items behind... :D


Edited by Kirinyale, 30 March 2016 - 04:44 AM.


#18
rusokrd

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 Kirinyale, главное чтоб не как Гензель и Гретта с дорожкой из хлебных крошек :) .  This tactics could be useful for any class. I thought that there is no balance in game and only rogues can do such tricks, but true said long live long learn. During the game I frequently ask myself why there is no pickpocketing and distraction abilities, which could be applied in stealth mode without engaging in battle. Does it realy ruin the game?



#19
Kirinyale

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During the game I frequently ask myself why there is no pickpocketing and distraction abilities, which could be applied in stealth mode without engaging in battle. Does it realy ruin the game?

I wouldn't say "ruin", but it would certainly be a very welcome feature. E.g. my "evil pacifist" had to kill that monk (forgot his name) in Raedric's Hold for key instead of just pickpocketing it. Technically, it was the "most pacifist" way because it was just one kill, as opposed to fighting the undead in the dungeon (whom the game's kill counter doesn't differentiate from kith), and you HAVE to kill them to free that prisoner (even though you can sneak into his cell, he'll just refuse to leave until it's safe).

 

Of course, even with pickpocket, I'd still have to fight Raedric or Kolsc to finish the quest (I picked Kolsc this time). But really, there's a lot of things this game could do better. Proper inventory management with Infinity-style specialized containers instead of that "stash" abomination is one thing that instantly springs to mind. I also strongly dislike all the "combat only" / "non-combat only" limits, including inability to flee from a battle to different location (e.g. run away from the bear cave) and seemingly manual management (by scripters?) whether each specific battle can be ended by fleeing, or just goes on forever (which sometimes just bugs out). I understand it was probably an attempt to achieve higher difficulty and better balance, but stripping tactical options, limiting play-styles and artificially forcing players to fight to the death was never the proper way to make the game harder in my opinion. I really hope Obsidian will improve on it in their next games.


Edited by Kirinyale, 31 March 2016 - 12:56 AM.

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#20
rusokrd

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Of course, even with pickpocket, I'd still have to fight Raedric or Kolsc to finish the quest (I picked Kolsc this time). But really, there's a lot of things this game could do better. 

 

I think, more interesting and dramatical resolution could be:

1. Using power of watcher make Raedric repent and refuse the throne. Heil Kolsc! New dictator.

2. With lore and intelligence force him to commit a suicide.

3. Or deal with Raedric and lure Kolsc into ambush in Hold. (with options execute|send to adra mines|give a new pet for Ozria's experiments).

4. To kill them both, or wait aside while they kill each other and become a lord.

But there are some dialog options which I've never used, and maybe some non combat solutions are already exists. I'm not sure.

But, this is another story, too far from original topic. 







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: solo, cipher, path of the damned, PotD, relative pacifism

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