Question about Treasure Chests

[Alklein35]

What are these for? They cost 500 gold, but I can't figure out what their purpose is. It seems like there is a pure build-your-deck mode somewhere that I'm not seeing. If so, I really have to speak out against that. I feel that something like that, buying booster packs of PACG cards, goes completely against the spirit of this game as a whole. I really hope I don't come off as insulting, but I'm actually pretty surprised Lone Shark was OK with that.

[Borissimo]

"Lindsey, paint me like one of your French boys."

[PinkRose]

"Sweet Shelyn! I got one of those Shirtless Nathan Selfie Promo Cards!"

"That's a real Treasure Chest right there."

[Waruko]

If they are exclusive yes I will. End of story. And respectfully you dual universe theory is pure bollocks. My experiences of the game would HARDLY be the same because you see my experiences have already been colored "in this universe". Much the same as maybe someone's experience of say watching Star Wars had they been engaged in a terrible relationship with one of the people who made it. The movie would be exactly the same but they would not . Their feelings have already been compromised even before seeing the film. We call this concept being "bias" and it is expected a human being's biases to affect what they like. Cus we aren't Vulcans. To think not would be irrational. So to clean up your example. In one universe chests don't exist and I go on to be a happy consumer. In the other I find out that a blind buy purchase model was introduced to a digital version of a type of game I get into because of its lack of blind buy purchase models. One introduces a business model I despise for a game that original didn't have it. Or to push this example to the extreme. Would you still buy this game if it was found out that every single dev was a <insert titles and crimes of your choosing till you are sickened>? Or would it be "irrational" to expect your disgust at such a revelation would stop you or other people from playing the EXACT SAME GAME? I think not.

 And frankly it's disconcerting that someone people think, "The "treasure packs" are the digital equivalent of promo cards." False equivalence, sorry promotional cards are like promotional cards. Card packs are like card packs. If there were pre-order bonuses, timed specials, event exclusives that's fine. Those are fine. Those are cards made for PROMOTING the game. /hence name "promo's"

Card packs are card packs. A blind buy purchase model used to increase sales of products. Doesn't matter if its Hearthstone cards for a CCG or My Little Pony figures. Very simple concept. You can't see what you got till after purchase, chances of doubles are very likely before completing sets, encouraging the consumer to buy more to get what they want. I'm not calling this scummy. I'm not calling it greedy. I'm not calling it unethical. But you'd have to be foolish to say this is for consumer benefit. Which WOULD ALSO BE FINE if this was...you know a CCG. Pathfinder Adventure Card Game is NOT. These are not in there for " just a way for people who have the season pass to use their gold" I already had a way to use my gold. It was called Skull & Shakles. I would of been fine with random cosmetics. New card backs, character art variant, etc. Not actual cards.

In short, again, I don't go for card packs in my LCG's as it goes against the point of why I play games like Dominion and not Hearthstone. This is NOT a hard concept to grasp even if you disagree with it. So if you're happy the option at tossing cash/gold into the loot box wishing well that's fine. Knock yourself out. Just don't expect other people to be magically cool with the idea of CCG elements in their LCG. Well I'm out.  Sincerely, enjoy your game. Just doesn't seem to be my cup of tea anymore.

 

[Waruko]

 

Assuming the chests make other players happy, do you really begrudge the happiness of other people -- people you haven't met, never heard of, never will meet -- so much that you'd be willing to forfeit your own happiness in silent protest? A protest that, might I add, no one will ever know about, hear about, or care about, and that won't have any effect on anything, especially not the happiness of the people whose happiness you were protesting in the first place? This is a poor return on the sacrifice of your happiness, my friend!

 

Because the "newbie" system doesn't let me get to my posts to edit while waiting for approval I just want to address this personal note. What on god's green earth are you talking about? Begrudge people's happiness? What?! You literally made an assumption "Assuming the chests make other players happy" and then went on to build a false narrative. "do you really begrudge the happiness of other people". Better question would be "WOULD YOU begrudge..." Don't assume positions or emotions about people that aren't there. One, it's rude. Two undermines your whole position. It's the worst straw man you could ever make.

 

So to make it abundantly clear for you. I begrudge no one for liking this game. Nor would I begrudge them for liking loot boxes much like I don't begrudge 80 year old grandma's for enjoying slot machines. Waste of money in my eye but hey ain't my money. But on the flip side who is anyone else to object on what I do or don't spend my money on? Most of all people I don't know, care about, hear from, or will ever meet. As long as purchases aren't reinforcing anti-consumer practices, hereby helping them gain prominence there isn't a reason to care about what others do.

 

And the very fact I'm posting in response to something I find objectionable, would by definition, not be silent protest. The fact I have expressed these same feelings to the friends I formerly promoted this game to would not be silent protest. I'm letting the Dev's hear my voice and they then will do what they will with it even if its complete disregard. I'm entitled to nothing. But guess what? So are they. They don't deserve my money if I don't like the product they put forth. So you know what would be a poor return in MY happiness(and my money)? Buying something I do not want. 

 

 

[Borissimo]

With respect, Waruko, your argument doesn't hold up logically. I can tell from the way you're writing that I cannot convince you, so I'm not writing to sway you, but to sway anyone who might be reading this exchange.

 

You accuse me of making assumptions about your feelings, yet your entire position hinges on the assumption that Obsidian's reason for implementing the chests is that they are greedy. How do you know this? You don't -- you simply assume that implementing a certain type of mechanic implies greed. Your entire argument falls apart when we consider the very real possibility that Obsidian has introduced these chests in good faith because they genuinely think that players will enjoy them.

 

If Obsidian is indeed "bad," then everything you said follows logically. But if Obsidian isn't "bad," then there's nothing to be biased against, and the ONLY effect that the treasure chests have upon the universe is the creation of fun for other players. You simply choose not to buy the chests, Obsidian isn't evil, and there's no reason not to play the game. You say that I have made a "false narrative," yet it's only false if Obsidian is "bad," just like your entire position falls apart if Obsidian isn't. You've written a mountain of text explaining what follows from the assumption that Obsidian is "bad," yet you've provided no proof whatsoever that Obsidian's implementation of these treasure chests wasn't done in good faith (and you can't, because you don't have it, because you don't know the developers).

 

At the end of the day, neither of our positions is more inherently false than the other -- we've just made different starting assumptions. And of course, I think mine is way more reasonable than yours. There's been no evidence so far that Obsidian is "bad," and the existence of these chests hardly qualifies. Unlike in other games, where blind packs are integral to the user experience and their existence could thus be called exploitative, they are purely optional here, so in a purely objective sense the only thing they add to our universe is the happiness of the players who choose to indulge in them.

[StormbringerGT]

 

 

Assuming the chests make other players happy, do you really begrudge the happiness of other people -- people you haven't met, never heard of, never will meet -- so much that you'd be willing to forfeit your own happiness in silent protest? A protest that, might I add, no one will ever know about, hear about, or care about, and that won't have any effect on anything, especially not the happiness of the people whose happiness you were protesting in the first place? This is a poor return on the sacrifice of your happiness, my friend!

 

Because the "newbie" system doesn't let me get to my posts to edit while waiting for approval I just want to address this personal note. What on god's green earth are you talking about? Begrudge people's happiness? What?! You literally made an assumption "Assuming the chests make other players happy" and then went on to build a false narrative. "do you really begrudge the happiness of other people". Better question would be "WOULD YOU begrudge..." Don't assume positions or emotions about people that aren't there. One, it's rude. Two undermines your whole position. It's the worst straw man you could ever make.

 

So to make it abundantly clear for you. I begrudge no one for liking this game. Nor would I begrudge them for liking loot boxes much like I don't begrudge 80 year old grandma's for enjoying slot machines. Waste of money in my eye but hey ain't my money. But on the flip side who is anyone else to object on what I do or don't spend my money on? Most of all people I don't know, care about, hear from, or will ever meet. As long as purchases aren't reinforcing anti-consumer practices, hereby helping them gain prominence there isn't a reason to care about what others do.

 

And the very fact I'm posting in response to something I find objectionable, would by definition, not be silent protest. The fact I have expressed these same feelings to the friends I formerly promoted this game to would not be silent protest. I'm letting the Dev's hear my voice and they then will do what they will with it even if its complete disregard. I'm entitled to nothing. But guess what? So are they. They don't deserve my money if I don't like the product they put forth. So you know what would be a poor return in MY happiness(and my money)? Buying something I do not want. 

 

 

 

Chests are purely optional though. You don't ever have to know they are in your game and utilize them. All the cards that you can find in your physical RotR box set you can find in our digital version in a similar format (Base Box and Adventure Decks.)

 

I'm not trying to change your opinions on blind packs or anything, I'm just making sure we are communicating chests clearly.

[LLaney]

Oh Stormbringer, I knew exactly what I was wishing for. 

[nimoyfish]

Sad to see someone leave this game because of the treasure chests. I largely agree with Waruko about the differences between CCGs and LCGs, and I find the blind purchase model of Magic/Hearthstone to be off putting. However, I don't think that's an accurate comparison to how chests work in Pathfinder Adventures.

 

Pathfinder Adventures is not player vs. player, which means equal access to the entire available card pool is not a very important requirement for enjoyment. Since buying the adventure (real money or in game gold) gives you the entire card pool in the original game, any cards you gain from chests is just icing on the cake. Not buying chests has no adverse effect on a person playing the game if we can agree that the baseline release is sufficient. Given that it'll be equivalent to the physical game, I'm happy to claim that this is so. I don't think you can complain that your experience suffers from someone else playing the game with some added cards (just like physical promo cards). Another persons deck composition and game state have zero interaction with your game -- this is in stark contrast to something like hearthstone.

 

I was the one who said "just a way for people who have the season pass to use their gold". I should have been more clear. I meant "have the season pass" as "people who plan on spending real money to buy the adventure paths". If you plan on saving your gold for Skulls and Shackles or a future adventure path, the chests don't stop you from doing that. For people who are just accruing gold by playing the game and have nothing else to spend it on, chests act as a possible outlet. Getting free random cards for just playing the game doesn't seem like such a terrible idea.

 

As to blind purchase being anti-consumer -- 100% true. For me though, given that 1) its earned in-game currency, 2) you can use said currency to buy the full base experience without dealing with blind purchases (just like LCGs), 3) the base game is free to play, and 4) Obsidian needs to get paid somehow to keep making this awesome content, I'm pretty happy with how chests have turned out.

[Hannibal_PJV]

I agree that treasure boxes Are not a problem. Because you don't need them to get full game experience. I consider them like promos, you get them or you don't get them. Most often it is best to play without them. Some of them Are quite often a Little bit over Powered like Ekkie.

[PinkRose]

For those refusing to play with Treasure chests as an option, do you also refuse to play the physical game since there are promo cards you can't get?

[Waruko]

 

Chests are purely optional though. You don't ever have to know they are in your game and utilize them. All the cards that you can find in your physical RotR box set you can find in our digital version in a similar format (Base Box and Adventure Decks.)

 

Thank you for replying. Just so I am also clear: (Thought I was, so excuse me if it wasn't.) I understand that they are optional. Quite so. Much like the physical versions of adventure decks are optional, or class decks, play mats. promos etc. If my physical class decks were broken into card packs, however I would feel the same. 

 

I also understood that you weren't gating physical content from the base sets and/or adventure decks behind card packs. From what I've looked over you aren't doing so with the class decks currently out either. 

 

Lastly, since some people like presenting false narratives about what I am saying let me make it pointedly clear on my feelings towards your company and actions. I'm not saying, "OBSIDIAN YOU ARE WRONG, AWFUL, GREEDY PEOPLE!!!" or  "I DESERVE ALL THE CARDS!!!111" Just, "I disagree with this addition of the business model strongly and will not be making a purchase. I can understand why, especially on a iSO platform, you went this route so I do not hold it against Obsidian. Nor do I think myself entitled to anything. Best of luck. The game looks great. - Consumer"

 

 

@Nimoyfish, good post, well reasoned. Have a like. But one thing, "I don't think you can complain that your experience suffers from someone else playing the game with some added cards " I never claimed such. If you mean "you' in a general sense I agree whole hearted. That would be a silly complaint...unless one was obsessive compulsive. God help them. But yes, lots of businesses do anti-consumer practices like blind buy card packs and we consumers accept certain business models, such as blind buys, as reasonable for X, Y, and/or Z reasons. For example Obsidian could of said, "Treasure chests and this blind buy model was the only way to make this game economically viable." That is quite possible, it is quite understandable, and it is reasonable for them to do such. This isn't greed. This is about making money to support your company. Still doesn't mean one has to buy what you sell if they don't like how you do it.  And really that's the whole thing I have tried to get across in my posts. How you feel is how you feel. You want to spend your money on this game then practice your consumer right. If you don't, same deal, and if you can politely let the company know why if you didn't so they have market data. 

 

 

@Bor I never accused Obsidian of being greedy. 2nd time you have inserted words or positions I have never said or taken. Logic is not making a false statement and magical turning it true.  So considering you just said, "your entire position hinges on the assumption that Obsidian's reason for implementing the chests is that they are greedy" despite in my very own post I clearly write "I'm not calling it greedy." would again show you are either making an assumption of my personal thoughts and feelings or you are trolling. I couldn't even dare to guess why Obsidian went with this model nor do I care. Obsidian is a business first. They plan on making money. People work for the reasonable expectation of being paid. Is making money greedy? No. So my actual "entire position" of "I don't like blind buy purchase models." is quite exclusive to Obsidian's or anyone else's reasons for enjoying them or implementing them. Not that I can expect you to represent my position or feelings on the matter in an accurate or fair manner. You have proven quite adamant about not doing so because even when it's pointed out you made an assumption by accusing someone of a false (see:untrue, see: you lied) nature you instead sought to double down on your narrative. Paraphrase: "No wait...but you made assumptions too..." (About calling a company greedy when I did the opposite.) "...and my position..." (where you presented a lie about my character) "...is on more solid ground."  Not in any universe in which we live in. "With respect", disingenuous at best but I'm glad we agree to disagree.   /in place of better emote

 

 

@Pinkrose  "If they were pre-order bonuses, timed specials, event exclusives that's fine. Those are fine. Those are cards made for PROMOTING the game. /hence name "promo's"." I, personally, refuse because I don't like blind buy purchase models added to a game that didn't have them. If you are OK with blind buy purchase models in this game it is wonderful that you, like me, are practicing your right as a consumer. I would hope anyone else "refusing" would know the difference between promotional material and blind buy purchase models and the issue some people have with them isn't born from some OCD "Gotta catch them all!" attitude. 

 

 

Well, I came back to see if the Dev's had answered my question about if the contents of the chest were forever exclusive or not. Given it hasn't I guess I'm done with the thread and the forums as a whole. Good day ladies and gents, enjoy the game. /tips hat