Soulbound Weapons

[Brimsurfer]

OK can someone explain to me why Soulbound weapons are universal and receive accuracy bonus from any category of weapons proficiency focus talent and doesn't require player to actually specifically spending a point in the proficiency talent for weapons' category that's actually related to the soulbound weapon or doesn't require a proper soulbound weapons specialisation?

 

E.g My Paladin is wielding the soulbound war hammer (which is a soldier's weapon) and she doesn't have soldiers weapons focus talent but she does have adventurers weapon focus talent and she is getting the +6 bonus from adventurers weapon focus talent with this soulbound war hammer , even though a war hammer is a soldier's weapon and not an adventurer's weapon.

 

Someone told me its because Soulbound weapons are universal.........to that I say its lame.....what's the real reason behind this? Because it just simply doesn't make sense, it makes weapon focus talents lose their significance......feels like soulbound weapons specialisation is sold for free......  

 

Pretty sure PST or BG games would not have given soulbound weapon proficiency for free....and I thought this game was meant to be spiritual successor to such cRPGs that would make you break your back for good stuff.......

Edited March 1, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[AndreaColombo]

It's to avoid awkward moments like when you specialized your BG2 Paladin to dual-wield swords and then HELLO, CARSOMYR!

 

EDIT: I can think of two more reasons but I'm not gonna type them from my smartphone because inconvenience.

Edited March 1, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[kvaak]

I never actually noticed this since whenever I bound a weapon I swapped proficiencies (if necessary). If this does happen I'd say it's definitely a bug.

 

I'm not too fond of soulbound weapons in general for a multitude of reasons, although the one thing they do is recreate the excitement when you found a +1 long sword in BG1. Plain metal weapons, which is what you would use for most of the game, could randomly break at any time. Then in BG2:ToB the shop in your starting town sells unnamed, boring +4 weapons which you won't buy because you already have better stuff.

 

In PoE you start at level 1 yet few pieces of equipment recreate that "holy crap this is amazing" feeling. Until your smartbarian's carnage starts to proc Grey Sleeper's on-hit effects.

Edited March 1, 2016 by kvaak

[AndreaColombo]

It's very much intended; it was announced by Josh before PX1 came out.

[kvaak]

It's very much intended; it was announced by Josh before PX1 came out.

 

With the option of retraining that honestly makes no sense whatsoever. +6 accuracy isn't big enough of a deal you wouldn't just use the soulbound weapon anyway unless you were a specialized fighter. It's like an equivalent of ++ long swords, or +++ at best. Not +++++ long swords ++ dual wielding.

Edited March 1, 2016 by kvaak

[Brimsurfer]

It's to avoid awkward moments like when you specialized your BG2 Paladin to dual-wield swords and then HELLO, CARSOMYR!

..............

 

Thats what respec'ing is for ...............

 

And to be honest i think it also adds to the replayability of the game, you can always replay the game with another class or another variation of the class designed for using the desired weapon you want to use (e.g first time a dual wielding cavalier and second time carsomyr wielding inquisitor, in case of your BG example) if not then PoE also offers respec'ing tool as mentioned above ........ 

 

So giving away a free full mastery of a weapon is kind of cheesy, imo. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[Brimsurfer]

It's very much intended; it was announced by Josh before PX1 came out.

 

But you can respec, so what's the point of this free give away full grand mastery of a weapon...........doesn't make sense even roleplaying-wise........

Edited March 1, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[house2fly]

I don't think they had respecs at the time, plus some people might not want to spend however much to retrain themselves at level 10 purely to switch weapon focus from clubs to sceptres.

[Brimsurfer]

I don't think they had respecs at the time, plus some people might not want to spend however much to retrain themselves at level 10 purely to switch weapon focus from clubs to sceptres.

Respec cost is nothing.......I still have about 145k gold left in my stach (even after buying almost every magical item in the game), and to retrain my level 15 / 16 characters it only cost me 1750 gold .

 

And it was not like I was trying to make gold in this game, I wasn't even thinking about gold and then I noticed that I have about 150K accumulated over time from quests and random loot, so cost of respec'ing is super super cheap  in this game.

 

I believe they did, although I am not entirely certain but I believe they did have respec'ing tool available before WM1, because I vaguely remember myself respec'ing before WM1 came out but I could be wrong...........but still even if they didn't have respec'ing available back in vanilla they still had plans to introduce it and they knew, so it still doesn't make sense to make soulbound weapons universal?

 

Or perhaps they did it to popularise soulbound weapons among players, you know to sell the idea to players.........

[kvaak]

I don't think they had respecs at the time, plus some people might not want to spend however much to retrain themselves at level 10 purely to switch weapon focus from clubs to sceptres.

 

They do have respecs now, and once you have access to soulbound weapons the retraining cost is pitiful. On my recent run I had 50k-something in cash after emptying every single ingredient shop (which I never ended up even using), without selling a single unique weapon/armour, any magical accessories or consumables and buying a good couple of unique items just because I had nothing else to spend the gold on.

Edited March 1, 2016 by kvaak

[Francis Ironwood]

There is the Priest deity specific weapon profiency talent that gives +10 accuracy. These are based on the deity you choose at the start and cannot be respeced. So priests following Eothas for example would get Hope Eternal that gives +10 accuracy with Flails and Morning Stars. Except there aren't any Soulbound Flails or Morning Stars in the game. Without universal Soulbound weapons priests would be super limited in soulbound weapons because they would be limited to 2 weapon types and the class requirement for the soulbound weapon itself.

[kvaak]

There is the Priest deity specific weapon profiency talent that gives +10 accuracy. These are based on the deity you choose at the start and cannot be respeced. So priests following Eothas for example would get Hope Eternal that gives +10 accuracy with Flails and Morning Stars. Except there aren't any Soulbound Flails or Morning Stars in the game. Without universal Soulbound weapons priests would be super limited in soulbound weapons because they would be limited to 2 weapon types and the class requirement for the soulbound weapon itself.

 

"+10 accuracy while wielding a flail or a morning star" applying to a sword makes no sense regardless of whether it's a class/deity-specific talent or a cross-class one.

 

Priests get access to at least five different soulbound weapons three of which are universal. That should be plenty.

[Francis Ironwood]

Yes they do get access to 6 soulbound weapons. Problem is that only 2 of them have a deity favored weapon talent for them. Berath gets mace for Nightshroud and Magran gets sword for Steadfast. 4 others a dagger, a scepter, a estoc and a warhammer can be bound to priest, but you would not be able to get the +10 accuracy talent for them. So without universal soulbound weapons priests would lose out on 4/6 soulbound weapons.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Francis Ironwood

[Brimsurfer]

There is the Priest deity specific weapon profiency talent that gives +10 accuracy. These are based on the deity you choose at the start and cannot be respeced. So priests following Eothas for example would get Hope Eternal that gives +10 accuracy with Flails and Morning Stars. Except there aren't any Soulbound Flails or Morning Stars in the game. Without universal Soulbound weapons priests would be super limited in soulbound weapons because they would be limited to 2 weapon types and the class requirement for the soulbound weapon itself.

What are you talking about mate? Blessing of Eothas is only for Flails and Morning Stars, why do you want it to apply to other weapon categories, soulbound or not, it would defeat the purpose of the Blessing.........a true disciple of Eothas won't even use much of any other weapons knowing that his diety does not favour other weapons.....remember this is a role playing game.......and we want it to make sense roleplaying-wise........

 

If you want soulbound flails / morning star then you should raise this issue to Obsidian seperately, but a blessing for flail should only work on flail and not on short bows and wands etc.......

 

This is absolutely ludicrous.......goes against everything that cRPGs are known for.......I would never dream of using any other weapon (soulbound or not) than flail or morning star on my Priest of Eothas because it will just kill my RP spirit and defeat the entire lore of Eora, my game wouldn't make any sense.......

 

P.S. 14/14 enchanted unique flails and morningstars can be better than many soulbound weapons.....

Edited March 1, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[Francis Ironwood]

Well I didn't make up the rules mate. I'm just giving reasons why maybe Soulbound weapons are universal.

[kvaak]

Yes they do get access to 6 soulbound weapons. Problem is that only 2 of them have a deity favored weapon talent for them. Berath gets mace for Nightshroud and Magran gets sword for Steadfast. 4 others a dagger, a scepter, a estoc and a warhammer can be bound to priest, but you would not be able to get the +10 accuracy talent for them. So without universal soulbound weapons priests would lose out on 4/6 soulbound weapons.

 

Oh, now I see what you mean, although I still don't think this is enough of a justification to make proficiency bonuses universal for soulbound weapons.

 

Personally I find priests horribly squishy so the only relevant bonuses would be Magran for arquebus and Wael for rod, although both would probably lose to Skaen's sneak attack. From a powergaming point of view. I went Eothas for my PotD run since he feels the least dickish of the bunch. Anyone but Skaen. Perpetuating an infinite cycle of hatred isn't cool.

[Brimsurfer]

Well I didn't make up the rules mate. I'm just giving reasons why maybe Soulbound weapons are universal.

 

Hmm......yea but what I am saying is that this rule is not right RP-wise and kind of defeats the purpose of various blessings and weapon specialisations in the game and the fact that player can pick up and bind and unbind a soul weapon without any cost and use it with full grand mastery bonuses without any cost just doesn't seem right....

 

Its probably the cheesiest mechanics that I have seen in any game that claims to be cRPG genre......

[AndreaColombo]

Dude, soulbound weapons are attuned to your character's soul in a setting in which souls are the be all and end all. What sense would it make for your character to be more proficient with any other weapon? None.

 

Also, soulbound weapons already have class-based restrictions and are generally overshadowed by unique weapons with Durgan steel. A talent spent specifically for one of them, especially of a weapon group I wouldn't normally use, would be a wasted talent. I'd rather use soulbound weapons without but at that point, why use them at all? Unique weapons offer better DPS anyway. Removing their universal nature would be a sure fire way to make most people ditch them (and it would make no sense from a lore perspective.)

 

Last but not least: designing items and mechanics around the fact that "people can respec anyway" is poor game design. Not everyone abuses respec in immersion-breaking ways to get out of a talent and into another because that trivializes character development choices. There are players (not me) who would even prefer to have no respec in the game for that very reason.

 

Oh, and +6 Accuracy is a lot better than ++ in BG because it increases your chances to crit. Besides, it's not free at all for soulbound weapons: You still have to invest a talent in it. It just gives you the freedom to use these weapons alongside your favorite uniques.

Edited March 1, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[house2fly]

I wasn't talking about the cost, I was talking about the time and tedium spent levelling yourself up all the way from 1 just to switch talents.  You CAN do that but it's not fun.  Soulbound weapons being universal is also an advantage they have over uniques, and differentiates them more.

[Brimsurfer]

Yes they do get access to 6 soulbound weapons. Problem is that only 2 of them have a deity favored weapon talent for them. ........

 

Well this is a seperate problem, you should ask Obsidian to include soulbound versions of these weapons if you want.........but giving away full grand mastery of a weapon that is already one of the best in the game is just aweful........and seriously why would a blessing for arquebus work for a war hammer? is that diety stupid or something?

 

Also if you enchant a unique weapon to 14/14 it does become more or less similar in power as a soulbound weapon......

 

But giving away free and full grand mastery of a weapon that is already one of the best in the game on the basis of your skill in entirely different weapon class, is just nonsense. My wizard excellent skill with a wand is allowing him to use a great sword with full grand mastery bonuses.....how does that sound?

[AndreaColombo]

Soulbound weapons are not the most powerful in the game. Not by a very long shot.

[kvaak]

Dude, soulbound weapons are attuned to your character's soul in a setting in which souls are the be all and end all. What sense would it make for your character to be more proficient with any other weapon? None.

 

Also, soulbound weapons already have class-based restrictions and are generally overshadowed by unique weapons with Durgan steel. A talent spent specifically for one of them, especially of a weapon group I wouldn't normally use, would be a wasted talent. I'd rather use soulbound weapons without but at that point, why use them at all? Unique weapons offer better DPS anyway. Removing their universal nature would be a sure fire way to make most people ditch them (and it would make no sense from a lore perspective.)

 

Last but not least: designing items and mechanics around the fact that "people can respec anyway" is poor game design. Not everyone abuses respec in immersion-breaking ways to get out of a talent and into another because that trivializes character development choices. There are players (not me) who would even prefer to have no respec in the game for that very reason.

 

Oh, and +6 Accuracy is a lot better than ++ in BG because it increases your chances to crit.

 

You already get a myriad of bonuses for the weapon being bound to your soul. If that automatically makes you proficient with it why can't a priest with a fully awakened Grey Sleeper still hit the broad side of a barn? Because at the end of the day it's still a sharp stick at its core and you have to know how to swing a sharp stick. If you're proficient with great swords but not estocs does the soulbound estoc magically turn into a great sword in your hands? It certainly doesn't behave like one.

 

More crits is just more damage on average unless you run a smartbarian with Tall Grass or something. I don't know the exact amount of pips that would equate to +6 accuracy but that's largely irrelevant, my point was that it's nothing like +++++ weapon ++ fighting style, or even +++ and ++ for a paladin, and even if it was you can respec in PoE.

 

As for soulbound weapons being inferior to other uniques with durgan steel: raw numbers wise that might be true but soulbound weapons get some crazy on-hit effects which can proc on every hit. Combine that with things like carnage and driving flight...

 

Not every class has access to those, yes, which is why a Paladin would be much better off with a durgan steel enchanted Blade of the Endless Paths than Grey Sleeper.

[Brimsurfer]

Dude, soulbound weapons are attuned to your character's soul in a setting in which souls are the be all and end all. What sense would it make for your character to be more proficient with any other weapon? .............

 

 

Its a poor game design thats what it is ............. soulbound weapon is meant to be bound to your soul, but you shouldn't know automatically how to use it with maximum skill on the grounds of knowing how to use an entirely different class of weapon........

 

I am excellent with wands, how the hell does that make me excellent with war hammers the moment I pick them, soulbound or not?

 

It should work like, I picked up a war hammer, bind it to my soul and now I should work to make myself skilled at its use because I am bound to the damn thing, i shouldn't become grandmaster of war hammers right away, I have never used one before in my life........

 

And how the hell am I able to bind a weapon to my soul right then and there and then sever the bond whenever I want without suffering any penalties that may or may not go away........

 

EDIT: Also according to your logic a player shouldn't encounter any armor penalties from the soulbound Breast Plate then, because its bound to their soul, shouldn't they be as proficient with its use as they are without any armor, because its not really a separate piece of metal, its part of their soul....

Edited March 1, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[Brimsurfer]

Soulbound weapons are not the most powerful in the game. Not by a very long shot.

 

To you may be........

 

I have defeated the game on PotD and I can safely say soulbound weapons are definitely the top class weapons in the game, although 14 / 14 durgan steel enchanted weapons are more or less same in power.

 

But here the issue is different and it is about getting free and full grand mastery with soulbound weapon on account of a character's skill in an entirely different class of weapons, it just not right RP-wise........

Edited March 1, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[house2fly]

 

And how the hell am I able to bind a weapon to my soul right then and there and then sever the bond whenever I want without suffering any penalties that may or may not go away........

 

The penalty of severing the weapon is that it reverts to how it was when you found it and all the time you spent levelling it up was wasted.